- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 15 November 2020 [1].
- Nominator(s): — Amakuru (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My Rwandan Civil War article is the TFA today, which reminded me that I haven't nominated anything for FA for quite some time now. This article is about the 2017 final of the EFL Trophy, an annual competition for clubs in the third and fourth tiers of the English football system. The match that year was contested between Coventry City and Oxford United, at Wembley Stadium, with Coventry the winners by 2–1. Disclaimer: I am a supporter of Coventry City, and I was at the match myself, but obviously I've written it from what I hope is a neutral point of view, with equal attention to both teams and due deference to what's written in sources. The GA review was carried out by The Rambling Man, who also has a wealth of experience in getting articles of this nature up to FA status, so hopefully it's got most of what it needs. I'll obviously be happy to address and respond to any concerns anyone has, so bring them on please! Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Image review—pass
Images are freely licensed (t · c) buidhe 07:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Quick comment – Not sure that I can commit to a full review, but I noticed an issue in the second half summary. The statement "Oxford had their best chance of the second half so far with 15 minutes remaining" can't be correct, as they scored three minutes later in the 75th minute, according to the statistical summary. There had to have been more time remaining than 15 minutes, unless the stats below this are wrong. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:34, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Giants2008: actually now you mention it, I think I vaguely thought of this as an issue when I was writing it... it's most likely a discrepancy in timelines between the minute-by-minute coverage in one of the newspapers and the official goal timings. I'll look in to this shortly and make it consistent. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 10:46, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Giants2008: I have now updated the timings based on the more consistent BBC report. The chance was on 74 minutes, with the goal one minute later on 75. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 22:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Probably worth linking English Football League in the background section.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Link Wembley in the background section as the first use outside the lead.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- In the third sentence of the first paragraph in the background section, we have "48 clubs" later followed by "sixteen category one...". Generally, comparable figures should maintain the same words/digits format per MOS:NUMNOTES.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Why do the club headings in the "Route to the final" section use the "F.C."? I don't think these are necessary.
- Done. Removed them. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The link for the West Ham Academy is a redirect, not much need for that when you're already piping.
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- "hosted the West Ham academy team", in all other instances in reference to a specific side "academy" is capitalised, but not here?
- I've decided to lower-case them all, since as far as I can see most of these are not the actual official name anyway - "Chelsea academy" is formally known as "Chelsea F.C. Under-23s and Academy" for example. And it's not like sources routinely capitalise, so MOS:CAPS would dictate "academy" to be best. — Amakuru (talk) 22:22, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- "Coventry's final fixture in the knockout phase was against Crawley Town", do you mean first knockout fixture?
- Yes. Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- "the academy side of Swansea City F.C.", not sure why the F.C. is suddenly used here?
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Link FA Cup at the end of the Coventry section as the first use.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- premier league > Premier League, at the start of the Oxford section.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- "they made the journey down the A420", maybe it's just me, but this comes across a little journalistic perhaps?
- Amended. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Link hat-trick.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Wembley Stadium is linked at the start of the Pre-match section but, as noted above, is used prior to this.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it worth noting that Robins chose to step aside in leading the team out? It's a break in tradition for a Wembley final and would probably help explain why there's no mention of who led Oxford out also.
- Good idea. Done. — Amakuru (talk) 09:23, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- "Coventry City sold around 42,500 tickets for the match, outnumbering the opposition fans", the ref at the end of this sentence makes no mention of ticket numbers?
- Fixed. Refs for 42,500 and the outnumbering added. — Amakuru (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- No need to repeat Charles-Cook's first name again in the second paragraph I would say.
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- "His most recent game involving Oxford was a goalless draw at Exeter in 2014", source?
- Added. — Amakuru (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- While ref 43 supports the highest crowd at the new Wembley, it doesn't seem to support the "was the third highest in the cup's history" part?
- Wording tweaked. In fact, the "third highest" didn't even appear to be true so I've dropped that and also noted that the record for new Wembley has since been broken. — Amakuru (talk) 09:23, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- No need to repeat Bigirimana's first name in the first half section.
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 2 has expired and needs recovering if possible.
- I found an archived version, but it turned out it didn't verify the renaming to Football League Trophy in 1992 at all. I was beginning to doubt its truth, as almost all sources used the sponsorship name back then, but I've now added a new ref from the EFL's own site so looks good. — Amakuru (talk) 22:22, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm assuming the publisher of ref 25 should be Swindon Town rather than Swansea City?
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 36 needs filling out a little, dates and author are available.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 09:23, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- AFS Enterprises are the publisher of 11v11.com
- Added. — Amakuru (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nice work overall Amakuru, here's a few things I picked out from an initial run through. Kosack (talk) 11:07, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Kosack: apologies for the slight delay, but I think I've looked at all your points so far now. — Amakuru (talk) 22:22, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- No worries. One further point I may suggest, I feel like English Football League should be written out in full somewhere in the opening paragraph to explain the uses of EFL. Perhaps instead of "clubs from League One and League Two", it could read "clubs from Leagues one and Two of the English Football League"? That's probably the best thing I can think of, or if you have any other ideas over placement? Kosack (talk) 12:15, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, that's a good point. I've added it to the lead as you suggest. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 09:14, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Think that's all from me, happy to support. Kosack (talk) 20:01, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The tables in the Route to the final section need row and column scopes and table captions per MOS:DTT.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 15:14, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- They also need reformatting to avoid the use of a column header in the middle of the table, per MOS:DTT.
- I've split the three bits of the table into separate tables, which resolves this and the below issue. — Amakuru (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Try to avoid nested tables (tables within tables) per WP:TABDD.
- Split. — Amakuru (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Avoid using colour alone to convey meaning (such as the green background in the Southern Group D winners and Southern Group C winners tables.
- "(Q)" added to clarify in text. — Amakuru (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Avoid using flags alone for nationality: use ((flagathlete)) instead, which also adds the country code.
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 15:14, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Add alt text to all the images. Harrias (he/him) • talk 15:05, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. @Harrias: I think that addresses all of your concerns so far. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 11:37, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've copyedited; please revert anything you disagree with.
The lead says Oxford scored 12 minutes from the end, but per the match details it was at 75 minutes.Things may have changed since I was a frequent reader of football match reports, but "kicked" is jarring to me. E.g. "but the Oxford striker kicked his shot wide of the goal" sounds odd. Is this now common usage, or are you just trying to vary the language? Here I think "but the Oxford striker's shot was wide of the goal" would be more natural. Unless you feel this is now acceptable usage I'd suggest looking for similar uses and changing at least some of them.
I'll do another read-through once you've responded. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:43, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Fixes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:24, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I may end up claiming points towards the wikicup. Hope you don't mind! :P|
I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:45, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- No short description? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Should it not be "held on" 2 April 2017... Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I have added "that was played"... — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- knockout tournament - can we use "Single-elimination" per the name of the article... A Double-elimination is a knockout tournament also. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The term "single-elimination" is not used in British English as far as I'm aware, and until I just checked, I had no idea what the distinction between that and a double-elimination even was. As this is the usual terminology used, and knockout tournament is already a redirect to single-elimination tournament (double-elimination tournament doesn't seem to use the term either), I'd prefer to leave this as is. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it worth mentioning the previous years champion, as we mention who was runner-up? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The game, which was refereed by Chris Sarginson, was played on a sunny day in front of a crowd of 74,434, the highest attendance for the final since the opening of the new Wembley Stadium. - maybe put the referee at the end of the sentence, or it's a weird aside. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Do we have a glossary link for possession? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Linked to Possession (sports). — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- lacked sufficient potency in attack, and it was Coventry who led at half time, - weird conjuncture, probably could be two sentences. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Glossary link for relegation? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- and for the three subsequent seasons, - do we care about the following seasons? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps we don't. Removed. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- 2016–17 EFL League One season - piped to redirect. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I like that this article mentions their League one matches. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- 👍 — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there any sort of suitable link for the academy clubs? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd have thought the existing link to Elite Player Performance Plan would do the job. I've extended the scope of that link to cover "academy sides" as well. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- what the Coventry Telegraph described as - who from the Telegraph? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Clarified. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Our articles seem to use a capital A for the academy teams, such as West Ham United F.C. Under-23s and Academy. Maybe we should here too? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- See above - due to existing inconsistency, I downcased all usages. I think this is more correct, per MOS:CAPS, as we should only capitalise when using the actual proper name for something. So "West Ham United F.C. Under-23s and Academy", but "West Ham academy" as a descriptive phrase when not using the full title. — Amakuru (talk) 01:37, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- There's a few piped links to redirects, such as the ones for the redirects (ie, Chelsea F.C. Reserves and Academy, etc.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 18:50, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- 1987 FA Cup Final is a duplink. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- There's a couple times where we describe an organisation as saying something, such as "with what BBC Sport described". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Other than that, I can't see too much, if you can address the above, I'd be happy to support. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Lee Vilenski: thanks for the review, and I've looked at/resolved/responded to all the points you mention above. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 18:50, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Source review - pass[edit]
Will try to get to this soon. Hog Farm Bacon 21:13, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Source queries:
- What is statto.com? It's probably okay from the looks of it, but I'm not familiar with it, so I'm asking
- I'm not entirely sure on that point. That line was lifted from EFL Trophy. Looking at the linked page, it doesn't seem to directly verify the fact anyway, so I have switched it to a link to a RSSSF page, which is regarded as reliable. — Amakuru (talk) 10:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Other references look acceptable. Formatting looks okay.
Spot checks:
- "This time they were successful, scoring all but one of their kicks while Eastwood saved from Southend's Simon Cox and Stephen McLaughlin's penalty went over the bar" - Checks out
- "Coventry were making their first appearance in a League Trophy final" - Checks out
- "West Ham were one of 16 academy teams from Premier League and EFL Championship clubs appearing following the tournament revamp in the summer of 2016" - Source doesn't mention West Ham. Also, it's stated that the 16 academy teams were planned to appear, but since it's before that happened, it's not exact confirmation that they did appear
- Done. I have replaced the ref for this point with a better one, which gives the details you mention. — Amakuru (talk) 10:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- " with Kane Hemmings, Jamie Sterry, Chris Maguire and Alex MacDonald all scoring as the match finished 4–1" - Checks out
- "Jones added another to make it 4–2 to Coventry" - Checks out
- "The referee for the match was Chris Sarginson" - Checks out
- "The Coventry Telegraph in its minute-by-minute report urged Robins to tell his players that they "need to start asking Oxford a few more questions rather than being forced to defend what appears to be a fragile lead"" - Quote checks out
- "Appleton was more critical of the format, preferring to return to the 48-team version" - Checks out
- "but they eventually finished the season in eighth place, four points adrift of Millwall who took sixth place and the final play-off berth" - Checks out
Overall, I'm fine with source-text integrity and saw no signs of close paraphrasing. Respond to the statto query and fix the one issue I did catch, and this should be fine. Hog Farm Bacon 03:02, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.