The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 19:47, 24 June 2017 [1].

Battle of Kunersdorf[edit]

Nominator(s): auntieruth (talk) 16:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about one of Frederick the Great's catastrophes, brought about by his dismissal of Russian and Austrian military skills and his belief in their inferiority. The article is one of four I'm working on: Battle of Hochkirch just passed the rigors of Featured article assessment. One of Frederick's great successes, the Battle of Leuthen is currently undergoing its A class review. The Battle of Rossbach, another success, is presently in puberty. I present it to you for your consideration and look forward to your comments. auntieruth (talk) 16:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Peacemaker67[edit]

This article is in fine shape. I have a few comments/nitpicks:
Lead

Seven Years' War

  • I would still pipe a link to Lieutenant field marshal, which is, in my view at the wrong title (for the same reason), but that is another matter.

Dispositions

Battle

  • yes, there are some better maps in Die Kriege Friedrichs des Großen. Dritter Teil: Der Siebenjährige Krieg 1756–1763. Berlin 1903 - 1912 but I don't have access to them.There's a series of 4 or 5 that show the entire battle laid out. auntieruth (talk) 14:26, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • PM, see if this makes better sense. I tried to clarify. Also could put in a bit on the effort to hold Frankfurt, and the orders Wunsch had to take Frankfurt back....21:01, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Turning the Russian flank

once the left was defeated a "new" left formed.  :) I need better maps. but have a look and see

Cavalry attack

Evening action

Aftermath

Assessment

Overall

  • Hi PM, @Peacemaker67: I've overhauled dispositions and added a section on terrain, massively expanding the explanation of the ground. I found a couple of different maps, tried them out. See if this helps? Also incorporated your suggestions above. auntieruth (talk) 02:03, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • G'day, I'm just working through now, making minor c/e type tweaks here and there. Please check my work so I haven't changed meaning or inserted errors. A few more points:
  • One thing that still confuses me is in Allied dispositions; it says that Saltykov faced his troops to the northwest, and so did Laudon. Is that right? If he expected the attack from Frankfurt at that stage, wouldn't he have faced his troops to the west? basicallly the attack occurred in the reverse of what Saltykov originally expected.
  • Perhaps mention that Reitwein is 28 km north of Frankfurt when it is first mentioned rather than a sentence or two later.done
  • It now says that the assault across the Kuhgrund was Frederick's second blunder, but I believe the first blunder is no longer highlighted above. Perhaps it would be better to relocate the assessments of Frederick's mistakes to the Assessment section? done
  • Most of the references in the Bibliography don't have locations, and the foreign language ones could do with title translationsI don't believe in translating the titles. if someone can read German, the title is obvious, and if someone cannot, the title is superfluous. Lingzi convinced me to use this *&FO#HG template and this is what it gave me re publications. I read in one of the guidelines too that location was not necessary. auntieruth (talk) 13:46, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's me done (finally...). You've really improved this article significantly, Ruth. It is easy to follow now, a great read and captures the key aspects well. Well done. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Kleist-fällt-bei-kunersdorf.jpg. added publisher. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:05, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Ealdgyth (talk · contribs)[edit]

Otherwise everything looks good. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:46, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ealdgyth: responses to your comments. Thank you!! auntieruth (talk) 15:33, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

HAve you tried using the Template:efn for explanatory notes? It lets you use references like the rest of the article. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:09, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • no I haven't. I looked at it, and it appears unintelligible. auntieruth (talk) 18:14, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's actually pretty easy - you put in ((efn|Text for your footnote.<ref as usual>)) and it handles the refs as usual - either using ref tags, or sfn or harv. The default is to use little letters, but you can specify some other type of superscript if you'd like, the details are at the templates page. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:17, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I saw that. I'd rather keep the citation with the note instead of splitting it out. auntieruth (talk) 15:06, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from FunkMonk[edit]

  • Added to artwork, but not to contemporary photographs. auntieruth (talk) 23:12, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Saw the comment here, looks fine, I'm in the process of reading the rest, will comment soon. FunkMonk (talk) 18:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • the flag icon says it is 1750, and I don't have a clue how to mess with icons, nor would I want to change an icon that has wide use across wikipedia
Alright, I see the filename now, I ended up elsewhere when I clicked on the icon. FunkMonk (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • sources from 18th century have variations of spellings. There is also the Prussian variant of German. Any spelling in that century would be irregular in German or in English (or French-Spanish-Italian for that matter). If you look at the maps (which were done in the late 19th century), they all say ...berge....
I'm talking about their English translations, though, not the German words themselves. Why are they translated as singular (mountain, which would be "berg") instead of plural (mountains, "berge")? Pinging GermanJoe for advice, a regular at FAC who is also a native German-speaker. FunkMonk (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, but I have never seen "grund" translates as "hollow", which is what I'm puzzled about. Perhaps GermanJoe has something to add here too. FunkMonk (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately I am probably of not much help here. These location names stem from older German dialects, so modern German-English translations might often be imprecise (some of the more obscure medieval terms don't even have a modern-German equivalent, let alone an English one). The translations here seem OK, but I am no expert. GermanJoe (talk) 23:38, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that goes for "berge" as "hill" (plural) above too? FunkMonk (talk) 08:21, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(moved your response into sequential order) The answer was meant for both questions, should have made that clearer. GermanJoe (talk) 13:13, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it is the way itshould be, but I will add a note to the text if you want. auntieruth (talk) 14:08, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You say "the Russian line" everywhere else in the article, though, so this outlier seemed odd. FunkMonk (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, that was the problem. I didn't understand your comment. Added a the to the sentence.
Added some further comments above and below. FunkMonk (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
FunkMonk comments! thanks. auntieruth (talk) 14:08, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Finetooth[edit]

I find this article to be fascinating, professionally written, and well-illustrated. I'm certainly leaning toward support, but I have a small number of suggestions, as follows:
Lede
  • ¶3 "the penultimate success..." – The word "penultimate" doesn't seem quite right here since it suggests that some sort of ultimate success followed the penultimate. The rest of the article suggests that there was no ultimate success for the Russians beyond this battle.
  • Well, they had one more success in the war. so yes, penultimate works. But I can probably change it to another word if you suggest it....? auntieruth (talk) 16:37, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • So little is made in the article of the Russian capture of the fortress at Kolberg, that I, perhaps wrongly, thought of it as inconsequential. Maybe "last major" rather than "penultimate"? Finetooth (talk) 19:14, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Situation in 1759
  • ¶1"west to occupy Frankfurt an der Oder, Prussia's second largest city, on 31 July." – For 21st century readers more familiar with Frankfurt am Main, it might be good to head off the confusion by inserting a clarification here. Otherwise readers might find themselves wondering how the Russians got by Berlin to attack Frankfurt. fixed
Terrain
  • ¶1 "and to the far right of Kunersdorf" – Should this be "south of Kunersdorf" or "on the southern edge of Kunersdorf" for clarity? "Right" would depend on where the observer was standing.
Prussian plans
  • ¶1 "the Prussians reached Reitwein, some 28 km (17 mi) of Frankfurt...". – Missing word between "(17 mi)" and "of"? south
  • ¶1 "north-northeast the Kunersdorf on 11 August...". – Missing word between "north-northeast" and "the"? fixed
Cavalry attack
  • ¶1 "His scouts had discovered a crossing past the chain of ponds south of Kunersdorf, but would have to deal with the artillery batteries on the Grosser Spitzberg." – The "but" part of this sentence doesn't quite fit the "scouts" part. Maybe "His scouts had discovered a crossing past the chain of ponds south of Kunersdorf, but it lay in full view of the artillery batteries on the Grosser Spitzberg." Or something like that. fixed
Casualties
  • ¶2 Note 5 "Of the non commissioned..." – Since "non commissioned" is in a direct quote, I didn't change it. The correct spelling today would be "non-commissioned".
Yes, but since it is a direct quote, I didn't either. However, it is also a translation. Advise please. auntieruth (talk) 16:37, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Manual of Style doesn't seem clear on this exceedingly minor question. I'd add the hyphen on grounds that no one will notice it, but someone like me might gritch about its absence. Finetooth (talk) 19:14, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Assessment
  • A good fraction of this section seems to repeat what has already been said earlier in the article. A more concise assessment would be nice. I think most of paragraph 2 could be deleted and perhaps another sentence or two here and there. I tweaked this down a bit.
  • Looking good. Your addition of compass directions is really helpful to me in understanding the complex troop dispositions and movements. I'm going to do another complete read-through later today to search for low-level stuff like new typos. Finetooth (talk) 19:14, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the latest pass, I made a few minor copyedits. Please revert if any seem wrongheaded. I found three new things worth mentioning:
  • ¶2 of the Terrain section says, "East of the Kuhgrund, the ground rose again..." – If I'm reading the map correctly, that should be "West of the Kuhgrund...". yes....Also defined "Fleiss'
  • Link redan in ¶2 of the Assessment section?
  • ¶5 of the Assessment section says, "After Hochkirch, he had no one to blame but himself." – Shouldn't this say, "After Kunersdorf..."? clarified this paragraph
  • Switching to support, as noted above. This and the Hochkirch article are quite well-done. The maps seem essential. Looking forward to the next article in the series. Finetooth (talk) 15:12, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note: Reference 57 is dead; I think we are good to go after that is sorted. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:37, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
More