The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ucucha 01:20, 20 October 2011 [1].

Hudson Valley Rail Trail[edit]

Hudson Valley Rail Trail (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Gyrobo (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel that I've exhausted all research material on the subject. This 4-mile (6.4 km) rail trail was once part of a useful rail corridor that was somehow despised by its various owners. In the 1980s it was sold for one dollar to a felon, then seized by the government and paved. Today, it's part of a larger trail network that spans two counties in New York. Gyrobo (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:29, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • The only use of ((Citation)) occurs where the work being referenced is a document that's part of an engineering report. I didn't know how to reference that, does ((Cite conference)) work? --Gyrobo (talk) 01:47, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't really know how ISBNs should be formatted, so I've removed the hyphens. Thank you for spotchecking. --Gyrobo (talk) 01:47, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, a very informative and interesting article. I had no idea about the corridor's connections with the Selkirk freightyard. Nice work. Juliancolton (talk) 21:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Removed instances of "welcoming", I see what you mean and it really doesn't add to the article. --Gyrobo (talk) 15:58, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed trailheads; the other trails I've written of span multiple towns, so I've just been listing locales along the route. Parking areas makes more sense. --Gyrobo (talk) 15:58, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although trains didn't run over the bridge, they continued up to the bridge: "Up to 1981, Conrail's two major rail lines reaching out from the bridge, both the one westward to Maybrook and the one eastward to Hopewell Junction, were still operating, although because the bridge was closed, they were not profitable." Mabee 2001, p. 255. I've changed the wording. --Gyrobo (talk) 15:58, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe the rest of the money was put into some kind of reserve fund, but I've had trouble finding sources for the 1990s; it took place during the small but crucial period before newspapers began publishing online, but after the period covered by Carleton Mabee in his book. --Gyrobo (talk) 15:58, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are two cabooses! At first I thought they had moved it, when I saw the second caboose at the bridge last year. Then when they moved it to the Haviland lot, I realized that there was more than one, though I've (also) been trying to find sources for it. --Gyrobo (talk) 15:58, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I sourced the second caboose to the trail's brochure, it's on page two. --Gyrobo (talk) 16:16, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lead:
  • the bridge was "severely damaged" by fire. I'm not clear if the 700 feet of damage to the wood constitutes "severe" or not; the bridge is so solid that it would have taken $40 million to tear it down, some four times what it took to convert it to a park (not a reliable source; I attended a presentation by the main organizer of that movement). Please consider this a question, rather than a request.
  • I removed "severe", because it did seem to be a bit of an embellishment. From my perspective, it was enough to merit closing the route, so I described it as severe. Since the degree of damage to the bridge isn't needed for an accounting of the trail, it would probably be good enough to just say that there was damage, without going into too much depth. Incidentally, the total cost of converting the bridge to a walkway was $38.8 million, compared to the $50 million to demolish it. [2] --Gyrobo (talk) 03:41, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Heh, seems that the cost estimates prior to the actual project were embellishments, too.  ;)--~TPW 18:12, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • last paragraph, "The trail is expected to be extended west, where it will border Route 299." Can we add ". . . and connect to the Wallkill Valley Rail Trail to this sentence? The expanding trail system seems important.
  • I don't think should be mentioned in the lead, because the connection between the trails is only talked about as vague future plans. To connect the trails, the HVRT would need to cross the Thruway and cut through downtown New Paltz. The HVRT brochure, which is the only source I have for a westward expansion in 2012, shows that the expanded trail will still fall about a mile short of the Thruway. The HVRT is definitely part of a larger network now, but I can't find any definitive sources for further westward expansion. --Gyrobo (talk) 03:41, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reasonable reason, as it were.--~TPW 18:12, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Declining rail usage: First paragraph, quote in the second-to-last sentence: I believe that the quotes always go after the period.
  • The article uses logical punctuation. I remember reading something in the manual of style (I think MOS:LQ) about this being preferred, but now I can't find it. --Gyrobo (talk) 03:41, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Odd that the British form got the "logical" name . . . since this is about a United States feature, doesn't it make more sense to use the American form?--~TPW 18:12, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Having reread MOS:LQ, it actually does mandate logical punctuation (I really should stop editing late at night). There are three instances in the article where a period follows a quote. The other two do not have a period in the source material, but this passage in particular is in an offline source that I don't currently have access to, so I can't confirm whether the period appears in the quote. I'll check the source the next time I'm at the library. --Gyrobo (talk) 22:17, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't much like that, but I have no interest in trying to stall a fine article because a poor style is mandated. Thanks for clarifying.--~TPW 13:13, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I hope that this helps out in some small way; I am going to review the criteria more carefully before I actually support.--~TPW 02:47, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You're doing fine, I haven't checked some of those sources in a while and was also under the impression that the trail connection was more definite than it actually was. I'm sadder but wiser. --Gyrobo (talk) 03:41, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Overall I am very impressed with the work on this article. I wish I had enough time to do this level of quality work!--~TPW 18:12, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support promotion of this article. Citations are consistent, images are appropriately licensed and captioned, the article is comprehensive with an appropriate structure and concise lead.--~TPW 19:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Is there anywhere else to get the Pevsner information? The oral history is a primary source and really should not be used on Wikipedia. Karanacs (talk) 02:33, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The closest I can find is:

Once it seemed clear that neither Central Hudson or Pevsner would buy it, Conrail's President L. Stanley Crane seemed to abandon his sense of responsibility for the bridge. To the embarrassment of other Conrail officials, Crane arranged for Conrail to sell the bridge to Miller without considering who he was.

— Mabee 2001, pp. 262–263
I don't think there's a problem with the interview, though. Pevsner's role in the bridge/route's history is described in the book, and I believe the interview to be reliably published and valid, per WP:PRIMARY. --Gyrobo (talk) 03:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how it's okay to use a primary source to claim that a (probably) living person is a charlatan. Ucucha (talk) 14:34, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done, the other refs already say that he was convicted of bank fraud, so that was probably redundant anyway. --Gyrobo (talk) 15:16, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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