From first glance this article looks in pretty good shape. Well done so far Neelix! I had not previous heard of Kellie but I look forward to reading about her.
- Infobox and lead
- It seems quite counter-intuitive and clunky to me to say she's from "Badger, Newfoundland and Labrador". I understand that N&L is the provincial unit of Canada we are referring to, but to me it seems like saying somebody is from "Downpatrick, United Kingdom"—technically correct, but not actually that helpful. I had to click the link just to see whether Badger was in Newfoundland or Labrador, and I'm sure many others would too. I would favour rewording in the infobox to "Badger, Newfoundland, Canada", and in the lead to "is a Canadian independent singer-songwriter from Newfoundland". This will be more clear to international readers and Canadians will still be aware that the province has been called Newfoundland and Labrador since 2001.
- We say in the infobox that she plays guitar and piano, but in the lead that she also plays drums. Drums should be added to the infobox. Maybe also add vocals, as she sings too.
- Perhaps we should mention in the lead that she wrote the song about her cousin killed in a traffic accident when she was 15.
- "National Hockey League player"—I would simply wikilink "National Hockey League" myself
- "which are more likely to bring commercial success"—I would say that they are "generally considered more likely to bring commercial success"
- I'm not sure we need to wikilink medicine; most people know what the general subject of medicine is, and anyway we've already mentioned that she is a trained nurse
- Early life
- See point above about where she's from.
- This reference doesn't seem to confirm that she was born in 1988. Nor does it indubitably say she was born in Badger, saying only that she is "originally from" there. I personally would accept this as meaning this is where she was born but some might not. If you can find a better source for the birthplace that would help, and we definitely need a source for her birth year (and date, if possible), as right now we don't seem to have one. This link incidentally mentions that she was 23 at the time that article was written (it was published in February 2012)
- "her mother frequently placed headphones on her stomach while Loder was still in the womb, and Loder kicked to the beat of Michael W. Smith's music"—this doesn't seem like something we would actually know, more like something Kellie would have been told when she was a child. Perhaps we should qualify that "according to Loder, her mother frequently placed ..." or something like that. I'm not sure "kicked to the beat of Michael W. Smith's music" is really an encyclopaedic way of putting it. Perhaps say that "according to Loder, her mother frequently placed headphones on her belly while Loder was still in the womb, playing Michael W. Smith's music" Maybe also mention that Michael W. Smith is also a Christian artist.
- "She claims to have "natural rhythm", and began emulating the drummer at her church by beating on a pew with pencils by age two" maybe add "and that she" at the end of the second clause here ("and that she began emulating"). also maybe change "by age two" to the less casual "by the time she was two years old".
- "Her younger brother learned how to play guitar before she did, and he taught her the basics when she was 14. She received her first guitar that year after her brother taught her three guitar chords." maybe reword to "Her younger brother taught her the basics of the guitar when she was 14,[ref] teaching her three guitar chords. She received her first guitar later that year."
- "her first song was about a cousin who had died in a traffic accident. This song used lyrics from a poem by a friend who was also close to Loder's late cousin" maybe you can merge these to "her first song, about a cousin who had died in a traffic accident, used lyrics by a friend who was also close to Loder's late cousin"
- Maybe mention her parents' names in the first sentence? This would be a more usual way of doing things.
- If you make the above change, this means you can reword the first sentence. Maybe "Loder was raised as a Christian, and considers herself ..."
- "she favours the piano because it is the most beautiful"—This wording could imply that the piano is, by definition, the most beautiful musical instrument. Perhaps make clear that it is her opinion: "she favours the piano, considering it the most beautiful"
- "appeared on The Way" what is The Way? we haven't mentioned it in the main body of the article yet. Ditto Imperfections & Directions.
- Music career
- The first three paragraphs here are quite long. I would consider splitting these up
- "Loder studied nursing at the Grenfell Campus of Memorial University of Newfoundland through the Western Regional School of Nursing.[8] While still a nursing student, she met a record producer" Why not "While studying nursing at the Grenfell Campus of Memorial University of Newfoundland through the Western Regional School of Nursing, Loder met a record producer"?
- "she met a record producer and released her first album, an independent release called The Way, in August 2009". That seems quite abrupt. Do we know how it happened, what the processes were? Did all these events happen in August 2009?
- "Devin Robinson produced the album, recorded at Sweet Music Studios" Was Devin Robinson that producer she met, or somebody else? I see from here he also played drums for Anyday.
- "all eleven songs" per MOS should be "all 11 songs"
- "That year, Sarah Burton of The Nor'wester wrote" maybe "in November that year" or "three months later".
- "that Loder has 'her own unique style.'" This is very vague and I'm not sure it really adds anything. While I'm sure it is the case, just saying it without any direct support seems peacocky and almost promotional. Why is her style her own and unique? Does the source say? If not, I would leave it out.
- "a Christian youth conference which has been held in Corner Brook, St. John's, and Gander". Perhaps make clear that it is not held in all of these places concurrently, but rather takes place in one of them each year. I would put "which has been hosted by Corner Brook, St. John's and Gander over the years" or something like that
- "As part of the award, which was valued at $20,000" by who?
- "a MusicNL membership" what is this?
- "time with music industry and production professionals and" I would put a comma before "and"
- "Loder referred to the music professionals she met" I would make clear that this was later. "Loder later referred to"
- "the top players"—what is the context of this quote? did she just say "the top players"? or the top players in Christian music, top players in Newfoundland, etc? as is the quotation is kind of odd
- "she opened for Anyday" make clear that this is a band. "she opened for the band Anyday". Also maybe mention they are Newfies and a Christian band
- "Loder said that she was surprised by the large turnout for the event.[1] Loder and Anyday performed together again on November 28 at Dorset Collegiate on Pilley's Island." The source for this is dated 19 November, nine days before the event, and therefore we seem to be giving credence to a prediction of the future. Do we have a source that says the 28 November concert actually happened (as opposed to just being scheduled)?
- "performed at the Exploits Valley Salmon Festival gospel concert, attended by hundreds, in Grand Falls-Windsor alongside Starfield and Roy Martin that year"—I would move "that year" to the start of this quoted segment and put "alongside Starfield and Roy Martin" after "performed".
- "The singer" Who? The last singer we mentioned was Roy Martin. Perhaps "She"
- "A critic" maybe change to "a reporter" or something like that as the linked article doesn't seem to be a review per se
- "In early 2012 Loder made a music video for "Your Love Alone"" maybe start a new paragraph here
- "While she lost the award to downhere" Is downhere another band?
- "Loder competed in the Juno Cup hockey game, in which she was considerably shorter than most of the other players at 5 feet 4 inches (1.63 m)" Maybe rearrange to "in which at 5 feet 4 inches (1.63 m), she was ..."
- "National Hockey League players" As above, I would just wikilink National Hockey League
- "Nonetheless, she scored"—I don't think "nonetheless" is merited
- "genress" typo
- "which are more likely to bring commercial success" see above
- "Loder sees her music career as a Christian ministry of which the goal is to inspire people to live happier, better lives" Maybe reword to "Loder sees her music as a Christian ministry, the goal of which is ..."
- The Telegram—Maybe make clear this is the St. John's Telegram
- medicine wikilink—see above
- Discography; Awards and nominations
- Generally looks good but perhaps put from earliest to latest (as they are they are upside down)
- References
- Formatting generally looks good, but note the issues I raised above.
- Categories
- For an FA it is best to have these in alphabetical order.
Overall this article looks in good shape and I think it will eventually get to FA with a bit of work and a few fresh sets of eyes. I enjoyed reading it and look forward to seeing it develop and lending a hand where I can. I hope all this helps. Well done again and let me know if there's anything else I can help with. —Cliftonian (talk) 19:45, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for performing such a thorough review. I believe that I have addressed all of your concerns save Loder's birthdate; I have been unable to find this information in any published sources. I have had to resort to calculating from sources that state her age at a particular time. Should her birthdate simply be removed? Please let me know if you have any further concerns or if I have not adequately addressed any of your previously stated concerns. Neelix (talk) 03:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- It's really no problem. I'm glad it has helped. The article is in better shape now. I would rearrange the lead slightly so that the first paragraph explains more succinctly who Kellie is and exactly what makes her notable; the bit about the first song could be moved down. I would have the lead something like this:
- Kellie Loder (born 1988) is an independent singer-songwriter from Newfoundland who plays drums, guitar and piano. A Contemporary Christian artist, she has released two albums, The Way (in 2009) and Imperfections & Directions (2010). With a voice that has been described as "powerful yet serene and soulful",[1] she has won critical recognition at the annual MusicNL awards in Newfoundland, as well as the Juno Awards, Canada's top music prizes.
- Having written her first song at age 16 about a cousin who died in a traffic accident, Loder released The Way in August 2009, and later that year won a talent-search contest hosted by YC Newfoundland, a Christian youth conference. As part of the award, Loder was given time with music industry and production professionals, who helped her with Imperfections & Directions, which was released at the 2010 YC Newfoundland. Loder was nominated as Female Artist of the Year at the 2010 MusicNL awards, and then as Gospel Artist of the Year in 2011. Imperfections & Directions was nominated as Contemporary Christian/Gospel Album of the Year at the 2012 Juno Awards. Taking part in that year's Juno Cup ice hockey game, Loder took a penalty shot after fighting with former National Hockey League player Troy Crowder.
- Loder's music career is unusual in that she chose to begin it in Contemporary Christian music (CCM); most young musicians choose music genres such as country and pop, which are generally considered more likely to bring commercial success. Loder has said that she chose CCM because it gives purpose to her music. Having studied at the Grenfell Campus of Memorial University of Newfoundland, Loder is also a trained nurse. As of April 2012, she had not decided whether she would focus on medicine or music.
- Just a suggestion of course. On the new image (this one), you shouldn't force image sizes ("300px"); put "|upright=1.6" instead (this allows users' preferences regarding image sizes to still work, instead of forcing everybody to look at it at 300px).
- Regarding the date of birth, there seem to be quite a few sources that mention her age at a certain point or other in time (see the link I put above for one). I'm sure you could use these to support 1988 as a year of birth? I've been having a look as well and I also can't find a source for her date of birth... a pity. Well done on the work so far, I feel the article is progressing. —Cliftonian (talk) 03:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I have restructured the lead, largely as you have recommended, and have also fixed the image size issue and readded the date of birth with one of the sources that simply states her age at a particular point. Do you have any remaining concerns regarding the article? Neelix (talk) 01:17, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, that looks good. That's me satisfied, well done on this, great work! I have posted support above. —Cliftonian (talk) 08:43, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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