The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 26 May 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]


Political career of John C. Breckinridge[edit]

Political career of John C. Breckinridge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:09, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I started this article from scratch after realizing the John C. Breckinridge article wouldn't comfortably accommodate all there was to say about the man. I hope to eventually form a featured topic with John C. Breckinridge, Political career of John C. Breckinridge, John C. Breckinridge's military service in the American Civil War (under construction), and the as-yet non-existent John C. Breckinridge's escape and exile from the United States. The article has had a peer review, a a thorough review by Wehwalt, and just passed a GA review. I think it is ready for the next step to FA. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:09, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - mainly on the lead:

This is just a start; I've only managed to look at the lead so far. I will try to read more later and hopefully, provide more commentary. Brianboulton (talk) 10:23, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I always appreciate your insightful feedback. Looking forward to the rest of your review. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 19:20, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I still think the biographical sections should come first; his political views are less interesting to the reader and you may lose people before you ever get to the "good stuff".--Wehwalt (talk) 21:12, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I really kind of wrestled with this at the beginning, and again when you brought it up in your review, but it seems like understanding his philosophy is foundational to understanding his actions throughout his career. Otherwise, the motivations for those actions may be misinterpreted. Still, I understand your point and would like for other reviewers to give their opinions as well. I'm not totally averse to making the change if consensus dictates. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 19:20, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More comments: I am giving this more detailed attention than I usually do at FAC, because Peer Review, where I'd have probably picked it up, is not working well at present. Here are my comments on the next few sections:

Formative years
Views on slavery: preamble
Moderate reputation
Later views
    • Well, I'm not wholly convinced by that analogy, but I won't push the matter. Brianboulton (talk) 23:10, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Kentucky House of Representatives
First term

More to follow: Brianboulton (talk) 19:08, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My final comments

Second term - election
US vice president
Presidential election of 1860
U.S. Senate
Confederate Secretary of War

Generally, this is an impressive article; most of the above points are routine fixes that can be easily made (or in some cases refuted). My one general criticism, a fairly mild one, is a tendency towards overdetailing. Trivial points such as Breckinridge's opposition to funds for a sculpture of George Washington in a toga, the nicknaming of his son, the draw-rigging non-event, and a few other instances, could be removed without any detriment to the article; indeed, such details make reading of the article harder than it should be. That might be just my personal preference, but you might reflect on it. I look forward to supporting the article after you have responded to my specific points. Brianboulton (talk) 16:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Because this was a sub-article, I indulged in details more than I usually would. I'd be interested to hear the views of other reviewers on what information, if any, they feel is too trivial to include. The only one I'd probably fight for is the son's nickname; if someone were to find a reference to Owen in one source and John Witherspoon in another, it needs to be clear that they are the same child. Would you mind to weigh in on Wehwalt's suggestion above about the order of the political philosphy relative to the political biography? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 17:05, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wehwalt has a point, and if this was the main biographical article for Breckinridge I would entirely agree. In this case, given the article's specific focus, the issue is less clear. I personally found it quite helpful, when following his career, to have some knowledge of his beliefs and how they evolved, but others may feel differently and this is not, for me, a sticking point. I don't think the article's eventual promotion should hinge on this point, but if it does, I'll go along with the change if you so decide. Brianboulton (talk) 09:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, I don't think he would have insisted upon it as a condition of promotion; I just wanted another reviewer's perspective. It sounds like you read it pretty much as I intended, as a guide to his thinking for later reference, with only as many allusions to later events as necessary to keep the reader oriented. That tells me that I wasn't way out in left field with my organization, at least. (Not that I thought Wehwalt was implying that.) Like you, I can see the benefits of doing it either way, so I'm just trying to see what most folks find most helpful. Anything else needed to secure your support? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Don't mean to intrude, but I did a little copy editing as I saw fit. Just a quick scan: all in all looks good to me but I wonder if the article is not a little over-reliant on just two major sources (the Davis and the Heck), once you strip out articles and encyclopaedia entries. I know from editing the KFC page that sometimes major sources just aren't available, but is this definitely the case here? Plurality of reference is superior to duality. Farrtj (talk) 22:37, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, no, I suspect there are many works that reference Breckinridge in some capacity, but considering that Davis' biography is over 600 pages, I doubt that many of them cover significant new territory. Davis' biography also won the 1973 Jules F. Landry Award for Southern History and garnered Davis the first of two nominations for the Pulitzer Prize, so I suspect it's pretty complete. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:09, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As to the "charged" formulation, I've got an idea. Although Davis as the standard source uses it, it should be allowable, I think, for Wikipedia editors to de-charge emotional content in words used in the source, although great care must be exercised not to introduce unwarranted re-interpretations. So "believed" or "regarded" are out of the question, as I've previously pointed out, since those words introduce distinctly new meanings that are unfounded in any source. But, what about a formulation as "sought to represent him as an abolitionist"? If the word "charged" has a too strong connotation in present day English as "accused of a crime", then such a substitution might be in order. But, as I see it, to be the judge of that (i.e, the subtleties in the meaning of "charged"), you'd have to be a native speaker, I think, so I'll leave it to other editors to reach a verdict.Arildnordby (talk) 08:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"sought to represent him as an abolitionist" seems a little wordy, but "represented him as" or "claimed he was" or something to that effect might work. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:34, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As I've said, I'll leave this issue (if it really is an issue) for native speakers. A formulation like "alleged he was.." includes, perhaps, the rather shaky foundation upon which the allegation rested?Arildnordby (talk) 10:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Alleged" works for me. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:34, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I cannot be one of the three reviewers to OK this article to FA status. First off, I'm too new here, and need to build up sufficient experience. Secondly, I think that to FA this particular article, a reviewer ought to have quite a bit of US history knowledge, which I have not. So, I'll just leave incidental notes on points that strike me as unclear, rather than taking on the role as reviewer.Arildnordby (talk) 14:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Totally understandable. In the limited circumstances under which I review FACs, I like to have at least a basic working knowledge of the subject. Your comments are welcome here, regardless of whether you register a !vote. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:38, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Even after the peer review, I had my concerns about this article but a lot of the rough spots seem to be smoothed out. Have not examined images. A few remaining things:

Early influences:
  • Perhaps it would be wide to summarize his college career in a sentence, since you mention both Centre and Transylvania.
  • U.S. House of Representatives
  • "using the money to buy votes or pay Breckinridge supporters not to vote." It might be worth mentioning whether the secret ballot was then in use.
  • I'm not entirely sure about this. I believe it was viva voce, but I can't cite that. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Breckinridge – a delegate to the national convention and a presidential elector " Still not happy about this. Suggest "designated as a presidential elector" as Breckinridge doesn't get to be one if the Whigs take Kentucky.
  • I can live with that. It's a somewhat complicated issue to sum up concisely. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Douglas wrote to Robert Toombs that he would support his enemy Alexander H. Stephens" Whose enemy? Toombs's? Any ambiguity can be removed by adding after "enemy" and fellow Georgian"
  • " Lincoln's insistence on emancipation" I hope you are not stating this as a fact, but as what Breck was saying. Lincoln expressed more moderate views as candidate.
  • "Governor Magoffin refused to endorse the resolution, preventing its enforcement." Not that there was any way to enforce it, of course.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:52, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

Otherwise all sources look fine. Brianboulton (talk) 16:58, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't sure if editors got the same treatment as authors. All fixed now. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Nice article. I like the way you broke out his views on slavery, since it was the biggest issue of the day. I have only a few questions:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.