The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 1:42, 8 August 2022 (UTC) [1].

Darjeeling[edit]

Notified: Dwaipayanc, SBC-YPR, Yashthepunisher, Chandan Guha, Ssbbplayer, Antoshurel, WP India, WP Cities, WP Nepal, noticed in March

As noted by RetiredDuke, the article has some issues with source-text integrity, spots tagged as needing citations, and some datedness, as well as significant MOS:SANDWICH issues and a generally excessive number of images. Hog Farm Talk 06:30, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't think so. Unless there is an active group of editors maintaining the page, it is impossible to maintain the FA status, even if it was well-deserved once upon a time. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:41, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I had never really edited the article before I edited the lead a few weeks ago for coherence. What are the issues? Are they mainly citations? It looks like a nice, informative article. I don't see why it can't retain its bronze star. Are you willing to grant me the month of January? I don't know anything about the topic but I can fix the sourcing and the source-text integrity. Can I interpret the last to be poor paraphrasing of the cited text? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:59, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Fowler&fowler: - the main issues are a few citations needed, some spots where the citations don't fully support the text, and some spots where it looks like the material does not fully reflect recent stuff, such as the tourism section containing nothing after 2015. At least on my web browser, there's some layout issues in one spot, with almost an entire screen's view of whitespace between the climate subheading and the table. And yes, this can stay open as long as work is actively occurring. Hog Farm Talk 17:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'll take a stab at it. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:33, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hold in FAR, per User:Fowler&fowler. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:50, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
About half of the images need to go. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:09, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Fowler&fowler:, no progress since before your comment, shall we proceed to FARC? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:16, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
user:SandyGeorgia Please allow me until the end of the month, i.e. January. It's true I haven't thus far demonstrated the kind of energy I may have implied, but I do want to get around to fixing this article. It's just that I was waylaid by some others. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:23, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No prob, just going down the list and checking. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:22, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @Fowler&fowler:, for taking the initiative. I am extremely short of time, but will try to help in the process. I do have the book mentioned below (Darjeeling Reconsidered: Histories, Politics, Environments), but don't have the time to read and use it :( Thanks again, --Dwaipayan (talk) 20:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Providing references, inline citations. Sections towards the end of the article (culture, education) not done yet. Certainly needs more time.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:13, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Dwaipayanc, happy to see you on this! Time is allowed at FAR as long as progress is being made. Best regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:33, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've begun to work on the article. Sorry, it has taken longer than I had thought, but I'm improving the pictures while I read the history and will start rewriting the history sections in a few days. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:52, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is MOS:SANDWICHing pushed down into the third section of the article, caused by the excess of images in the infobox; perhaps lose a row of images in the infobox. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:06, 13 February 2022 (UTC) Fixed, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:21, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:24, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

One edit in ten days; shall we Proceed to FARC? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:59, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Sandy. Thanks for the timely reminder. I'm reading and making notes. I will start editing again in a day or two, starting with the history section. PS Please note that this is a vital topic. It is also viewed a lot. The article receives an average of 1100 page views a day. The recent TFAs on the other hand, have received an average of 50 (outside of the TFA day itself). If TFAs are a sample of what is coming into WP:FA, and if an article exists to the extent it has readers (some version of Schroedinger's cat), it means it takes three weeks of the inflow to match Darjeeling, and were it to constitute the outflow, something substantial would be lost (though I am by no means conflating popularity and vitality). To my way of thinking, this article is worth saving. My style of working is not linear. I don't know what else to say. Please allow more time. But please keep reminding us. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per my analysis, we are in violent agreement, but please keep the work progressing here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:42, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
:) Amazing, how similar. Will do. Thank you. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:09, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There were some edits today. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:59, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Active improvements still happening. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:01, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm updating the history with more modern sources. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 02:42, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I have tried to take care of most citation needed tags, updated sections such as civic administration, civil utilities, culture. . Thanks!--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That makes me feel better as I know precious little about the demography or civic utilities ... and have only recently boned up on the history. Thank you @Dwaipayanc: ! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:39, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also I will replace the maps I have added in the history section with fewer but more focused maps Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:41, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is still a distressing amount of image clutter, and a gynormous infobox pushing well into the article, that contains lengthy text, a large map, and multiple photos. I haven't looked at content because of the visual assault effect from the infobox plus images. I assume this is still being addressed? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:59, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On my screen, it's awful with a giant amount of empty whitespace in the seismology section. As a note, there only seems to be freedom of panorama for sculpture, not 2D work, in India, so File:Proposed map of Gorkhaland, 2009, Singamari, Darjeeling.jpg may not be freely licensable. Hog Farm Talk 18:04, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The lead will increase in size, so the infobox will loom less large, relatively speaking. I'm using the local big boy for the model. Its lead is 400 words, compared to 250 for Darj. Part of the problem is that West Bengal, the Indian state in which Darj lies is thin and tall. I don't mind showing only part of the state but don't have a good feel for how others will react. Boston barely shows the Cape. Please give me something to model on. The image sizes are large only because it is easier for me to see them; they will be reduced to standard, thumbnails. The proposed map I'm happy to remove. In five minutes. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd take a multi-factorial approach; lose the map in the infobox, lose one row of the images, and lose some of the content (postal codes, really, Wikipedia is not a phone book). We can't have it all, and don't need it all ... there is just way too much happening in the infobox. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:54, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
:) I have no feeling (nor sympathy for the phone book). Just didn't want to step on toes. Will do Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:14, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reduced image sizes in History. How do they look? The Geography bit I'm clueless about. I mean in the mechanics of displaying. Not sure why the year-round temperatures are needed, but they seem to be a common feature of city articles. Please advise. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:17, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm almost done with the British Raj section of history; the last two parags are not mine and will change. I have texts line up for the postcolonial history section which should be done in a couple of days. Eventually, once the text is in place, I'll make it a little less discursive, more encyclopedically deadpan. Beyond history, I have sources and some text lined up for the modern tea-industry in economy; flora and fauna; and food (the picture with the little obligate carnivore bottom left is my addition) I've never been to Darjeeling, though I have to some other parts of the mountain ranges South Asia is blessed with. Have to run now, but these comments are very useful, and welcome! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:27, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm and Dwaipayanc:, see here re August 15. I am swamped at Palladian architecture re August 13. Is this on track? I can try to get here after I finish up at Palladian; have not heard yet if Gog the Mild is considering the switch. We can ping in Buidhe or Z1720 if/when Hog Farm is satisfied. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Re Political history of medieval Karnataka: currently, no, they aren't. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
See HogFarm's final comment in Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Darjeeling/archive2
I'm in the process of rewriting Municipality and Utilities. A saving grace or should I say blessing in disguise—but may even those are cruel characterizations—of the pandemic has been that some academics have been busy publishing like no tomorrow. Who would have thought Springer would be publishing articles on water shortage in the Darjeeling municipality? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:01, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fowler & Dwaipayan, once you get through all of these, I'll take another look. Hog Farm Talk 23:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone know if MATLAB plots are OK on WP? I have made a plot for the demography section using Matlab on which I am ramping up. The plot will get better in the next few days, but I just wanted to make sure. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:21, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Will do HF Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:30, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Noting F&f's progress in the further revision:
  1. Lead done))
  2. History done))
  3. Geography done))
  4. Climate, done)) now "Climate and environment," and a labor of love. 04:56, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
  5. Flora and fauna
  6. Civic administration done)) 03:55, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
  7. Demographics done))
  8. Civil utilities done)) 01:19, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
  9. Economy
  10. Transport done)) 23:26, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
  11. Culture
  12. Education done)) 02:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:17, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Fowler&fowler: I noticed your TFA nomination. Is this ready for additional comments from reviewers? Z1720 (talk) 00:12, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It should be ready for comments Friday evening (US time). Thanks. But I'd like to first have Hog Farm on board as they've been the one I've been working with. Once that happens, other comments will be most welcome. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:39, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fowler, I've got a major exam on Saturday morning and might not be able to look at it for a few days. Hog Farm Talk 04:01, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine. I'll aim for Monday, the 25th Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:13, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All the best HF in your exam! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:14, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies SG! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:07, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fowler, please ping me when you're ready for me to take a look. Hog Farm Talk 23:32, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Hog Farm: I'm done with what I'd I had set out to do. The only thing that remains is the culture section which is a long list, it seems.
I can't find a reliable high-level treatment of the culture in Darjeeling. And I'm congenitally not suited for writing about things for which the sources are light weight (newspapers and so forth). Is a culture section needed? Alternatively, if we can reduce it to its cuisine section, I can expand that a little while you take a look at the the other sections. Let me know what you think. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:51, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The culture section consists of description on festivities (rather listy), cuisine, and tourism destinations. Since Darjeeling is notable as a tourism destination, mention of popular destination is appropriate, I think. Festivals include events that are slightly different from rest of West Bengal (the state in which Darjeeling is located) and India (although several pan-India or pan-West Bengal are also observed in darjeeling). I feel culture is an important aspect of a town, especially if it has a palpable difference from rest of the state/country. Hope the references are appropriate. As Fowler has mentioned, there is relative lack of high-level references cited for culture section, but there is low-level sources cited.--Dwaipayan (talk) 03:10, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK @Dwaipayanc: So @Hog Farm: we are done and will await your comments. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:02, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I will do my best to get through this tonight. Hog Farm Talk 15:04, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What's going on with date formatting? It's been templated as dmy for a long time, but there is now mdy in the article. Shall I run the script to convert back to dmy? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:57, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please do SG Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:27, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:29, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You can install user:Evad37/duplinks-alt to examine duplicate wikilinks; a number of them can be justified, but some may be excessive. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:01, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just did. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:58, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Struck SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:36, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Except for some links to unfamiliar names occurring long after they were first introduced I've removed the duplicate links Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:26, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many of the uses of the word also seem redundant; pls review. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:03, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. :) Could be me, trying to be over precise. That next. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:27, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not a single one was needed. All gone. ty SG Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:38, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Struck, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See MOS:PAGERANGE, chk throughout, sample: pp. 158–9. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:06, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done, ty SG Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:52, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Struck, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please ping me after Hog Farm is satisfied and I will do a full read-through (I am not tickled pink about how close we are cutting this to the TFA deadline of 15 August, after it being here at FAR since December ... it kind of forces us all to scramble after wait wait waiting. :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:10, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Will do, thanks for the review thus far. Very helpful Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:54, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not seeing how these two thoughts are related? "Although their lingua franca, the Nepali language, was declared an official language of the state of West Bengal in 1961 and of the Republic of India in 1992, their economic condition has not improved as much as that of other ethnic groups in the town." SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:40, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've just clarified. Tell me if it makes more sense. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:04, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Struck, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:38, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fowler, Sandy, I'm sorry I haven't been able to get to this but I've been fighting migraines the last day and a half. Hopefully I can get to this soon. Hog Farm Talk 03:59, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to hear. Those are terrible. Hope you feel better very soon, for your sake. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:40, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hog Farm I will prioritize this then ... hope you feel better soon ... but my sleep cycles are still a mess, and post-COVID fatigue. May not get through until tomorrow. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:19, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to hear SG The whole world is going crazy. I hope you feel better soon. Don't worry about this article. It will get done. Your health is more important. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm better, just tired a lot, so have been poking around at WP:CCI since I can do some mindless checking there. For some reason, more tired than usual today, so won't try to focus on this just yet. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Feeling better today, hopefully the 4.5 hours of staring at a screen this afternoon for work doesn't make it recur. Hoping to at least start tonight ... Hog Farm Talk 17:28, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You may get there before me then; I have a social gathering tonight (which I may skip pending re-take of COVID swab). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remaining I'm back to be able to look at this but I'm on a work trip and the internet isn't the best here so I won't be able to do much in the way of source digging.

Will do it tomorrow AM, Hog Farm. Thanks for your comments. I will do a rigorous source and paraphrasing check later this week. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 03:42, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't see much still outstanding; it looks a lot better than it did even a month ago. I'm satisfied if Sandy is; I unfortunately couldn't dig into the sources heavily due to the internet situation on my work trip. Hog Farm Talk 00:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have started on talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Very close now to Close without FARC/Keep; there are a few image quibbles from Nikkimaria that are still being worked out on the FAR talk, and we need fresh eyes to look over the whole thing. I have no more issues. @Buidhe, Hog Farm, Z1720, Aza24, and Wtfiv:; this is scheduled for TFA in 10 days, so a quick appraisal would be most appreciated. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:59, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
PS, Hog Farm, to the best of my understanding, everything you raised on talk (and more) has been addressed or answered. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:04, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try to get to this again tomorrow or Saturday, running so far behind ... Hog Farm Talk 03:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kautilya3 would you be able to revisit now? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:54, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Dwaipayanc your declaration is also welcome, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:28, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quick look from Aza24

Observations on the History section by wtfiv

In my quick once over, it looks very good. Definitely something worth sharing for TFA. Here's my "take it or leave it" suggestions. I certainly won't jump in myself, as this article is too close to finish and an FTA deadline to have a someone new to it just jump in:

Done Very good points. Hadn't seen this. I did quick prose edits earlier and some of your suggestions were anticipated and adopted though not always precisely in your formulation. (A few days ago the History was drastically reduced and parts had become incoherent). Now to the individual suggestions.

Done changed to "a burgeoning hostility," and later to "came to a head."

I'm through the history section, so I'll stop here. I'm not even sure how useful this is but I'll post it. Again, these are only suggestions. I think this article would fly proudly in the TFA without addressing any of these. Wtfiv (talk) 07:50, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wtfiv we can't use colored templates at FAC and FAR, as they cause problems with the template limits in archives. The few you have added here will be OK, no need to change them, but please don't add any more (if you need to use a lot of coloring, you can use the talk page of this FAR, because templates on talk pages don't figure in to the overall template limit once the FAR is archived. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:04, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
user:Wtfiv I don't know who you are or where you came from but your comments on grammar and meaning are some of the finest I've read on WP. So thank you. Might I importune you some more? If you have the time could you go through: Geography, Climate, Governance, Utilities, Transport, and Education? I have to pare down Economy and address some outstanding issues in Flora and Fauna and Culture. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:40, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wtfiv came from James Joyce, Joan of Arc, and other very serious hard work FARs :) I pinged Wtfiv to here for these very skills. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:48, 5 August 2022 (UTC) [reply]
I see. Excellent. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:52, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Sandy and Fowler&Fowler. Fowler&Fowler, I'll reply to your request for further copy editing on your talk page. (My preferred style of supportive editing is a bit different than the FA reviewer style I used here to minimize misunderstandings in a novel configuration of editor interactions.) I have to agree with the review team: All of you who worked on this, and in particular Fowler&Fowler have done an outstanding job with this! It wasn't a topic I had thought much about, but its one whose global relevance I really appreciate now. Wtfiv (talk) 21:01, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
FAR break
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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