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It's hard to not notice the large number of high-quality Library of Congress scans passing through here and even harder (for me, at least) to ignore the incidence of a very distinctive, characteristic colour cast which isn't always getting corrected before nomination, or even noticed on the FPC page. The more obvious ones are picked up, but there are plenty of others which aren't, as well as one or two which have recently been promoted.
I went ahead and emailed the Library about this and heard back from a couple of departments who advised that, while charged with checking raw scans for luminance and contrast, archivists don't routinely correct colour balance. It turns out you can find this information on any LoC Collection page by clicking the "Digitising the..." links at the foot of the page. It also seems the first scans produced for the archive were made on an early 90s large-format flatbed scanner which I understand wasn't programmed with automatic white- and black-point selection, the way modern scanners are via more interactive user interfaces.
The result is a very large batch of uncorrected raw scans in the archive, all with more-or-less the same "signature" colour cast. Technically, all LoC scans are uncorrected, due presumably to time restraints, but this batch is the earliest and most poorly-calibrated. Thanks to the occasional reliable white paper reference on several scans, I've worked this out to be a mired shift of approximately -450K with a slight magenta tint shift (Lightroom users: temp -10, tint +6) to correct to a roughly neutral balance. It's no more than a rule of thumb, but hopefully a good starting point for assessing and correcting future potential FPs which might not have an obvious white reference within the frame, but display this particular hue. In most cases this reveals a cleaner-looking and/or more colourful image, which if nothing else is a better starting point for assessing the scan.
It's probably worth pointing out that not all warm-casted LoC scans are from this batch (later scans with Sinar and Phase One workflows are obviously much cleaner and often include colour charts anyway) and also that many pieces may well have a strong yellow cast to begin with, due to natural paper deterioration. The debatable need to correct for this sort of thing and restore works to "original" condition (whatever that might be) isn't the issue here. For the record, I'm all for changing as little as possible, which among other things means watching out for less-than-faithful scans. Hopefully this will save a load of time-consuming edits and lengthy discussion on the FPC page, at least. Apologies for the lengthy one here :-/ mikaultalk 13:52, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
However, I think you're wrong int he case of Ryu sho ten: Ukiyo-e almost inevitably have yellow paper. I DID reduce the yellowness somewhat in my original - adjusting levels tends to increase saturation - but don't think that going as far as you did is correct. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 01:40, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
This is a bit under-reviewed. Could I ask that people have a look at it? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 01:47, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Is it acceptable to nominate pictures that are FP on other language Wikis? Thanks. Sasata (talk) 17:32, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I believe that opposes with the reasons like "My poodle could do better. And has", "Yawn", "zzzzzzzzz" should be removed as the opposes with no good reasons given. Please notice I am very much against of removing the user oppose from my own nomination first-of-all because the reason for the oppose was at least readable and second-of-all I would like to be fair to the user. Thank you.--Mbz1 (talk) 17:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks to the FPC reviewers for getting on top of this problem. Yesterday I first saw the 'poodle' comment while in voice chat helping a new restorationist who's wonderfully talented. Hope it didn't put a damper onto his enthusiasm--we were discussing photochrom restoration and the oppose really caught me completely off guard. It's been wonderful to see how the regulars responded.
There's another issue besides civility, though. Seeking suggestions for what to do about it. Tufacave's uploads tend to have documentation problems. He claimed authorship of Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/peterlee, which appeared to be possible copyvio and has been deleted. Similarly with Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/queenmumindurham.jpg, Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/World War Two Tank, Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Image:Pipistrellustufacave.jpg. For a first timer, not such a problem. But this has been going on several months without the appropriate learning curve. Any ideas what to do? DurovaCharge! 19:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, come on - it's my first restoration of a photo (as opposed to engravings and artwork) and I'm not going to get better without people tearing it apart =) Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 13:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Amstel Hotel, Amsterdam is going to be closed soon, so I'm requesting more imput on it...there's only 3 votes, and 1 of them is the nominator. SpencerT♦C 21:43, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
ZooFari brought up an issue over at VPC regarding the VP template that tags an image as a valued picture. This brought up a question from me. Commons has a template to note when an image is featured at Commons and on any local language WP (for example, this). We have a template on WP to note that it is featured here, whether or not it's featured at Commons (for example, this). Why aren't we just using the commons template to indicate that it's an FP on the en:wiki? We have many examples of the Commons template being used in addition to the English WP template (for example, this and this). It's not an issue of being able to be uploaded to Commons; the same copyright requirements for any Commons upload is the same we have for FP. Do we really need the English WP template, or is it just redundant? ~ ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» 03:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Interested in honouring the best of the best?
Vote in the Commons Picture of the Year competition 2008
Voting to select the finalists is open from 2009-02-12 until 2009-02-26.
Alvesgaspar (talk) 19:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
I hacked up a script that scans the FPC list, and generates a gallery of twelve nominations that are ending soon. Expand the box to see it:
FPC critical gallery | |||||
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I would appreciate suggestions for improvements. If you find it useful, let me know and I'll make a request for a bot task to update it regularly. Wronkiew (talk) 06:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Some quick suggestions:
Overall, a great idea. MER-C 11:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I made some changes to the script to address some of the above comments and to format it more like User:Deckiller/FAC urgents. You may need to purge this page to see the updated list. The vote count is no longer shown, as all the nominations in the list are under-reviewed or consensus is unclear. I've thought about making it play nice with others editing the urgent list, and have come up with a possible solution, but it would require removing the countdown timer. The request for bot task approval is at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/DustyBot 2. Thanks for the feedback! Wronkiew (talk) 05:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Can the critical gallery also include nominations older than 7 days? SpencerT♦C 02:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Would a few more people review this candidacy, please? DurovaCharge! 01:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I was converting old FPC templates to FPCold and came across Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Western Sushi.jpg. It was nommed in December, but doesn't appear to have gone anywhere. Hope you guys can help this one along! (And maybe get a bot to update those dang templates :D) §hepTalk 21:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
The plasma one was removed because the nomination was withdrawn (when it should have been suspended). Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Johnson Ebban t and Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/SydneyMonorail1 gobeirne.jpg are not valid nominations and should be deleted. I've listed Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Western Sushi.jpg, Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Terraced Farming, Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Folsom Lake because they were never listed and closed Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Gent Bridge as the picture obviously fails the criteria. Basically, if the nominator does not transclude the debate it never happened. MER-C 06:03, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
A while back a set of images got promoted about aeronautics. These images were created in the 1890s about events that occurred several generations earlier, and at least one of the depictions is inaccurate.
This casts doubts upon the accuracy of the entire set. Comments? DurovaCharge! 01:56, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
...Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Punaluu Beach. Thanks, SpencerT♦C 02:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
This seems incredibly out of date - for instance, there's been five images after the last "Other" shown. Are these subpages getting updated consistently? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 04:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
File:Suikoden.jpg and File:Somagahana_Fuchiemon_restored.jpg are dead. Commons has somehow managed to corrupt the files. What on earth is going on here? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 04:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Good news! Tim Starling has fixed the problem. :) The key thing is to avoid interlaced compression. Now if only we could get .png files to thumbnail correctly... DurovaCharge! 03:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
It never even got a chance to live! *sniff* :( Chillum 06:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Could I get some more reviews on Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Chorus_girls? There's a couple above it that could also use more votes to establish consensus. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 07:27, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Requesting reviews for Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/First silk parachute. Getting close to closing time (partly my fault for being tardy with translation and sourcing). DurovaCharge! 17:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
At Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Early_science_fiction MER-C pointed out something I hadn't known about why .png images fail to thumbnail over 12.5 million pixels. In late 2005 that format caused a problem and he deliberately set the thumbnailing cap at that level for this format. The details are worth reading. Since the hardware got upgraded last fall the file upload cap rose from 20MB to 100MB, but the .png thumbnailing cap remained at 12.5MP. Since serious image work occurs in that format and uncompressed formats are important for re-editing, should we be petitioning for that cap to change? I think we should; if others agree we would be more effective to speak up together. DurovaCharge! 06:15, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
This is from the same production as the one up for FPC, but the other one had a much higher-resolution, better copy. Is this one still good enough for FP? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 03:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I've hacked together a quick collection using the new books feature detailing some of the photographic jargon we use around here for the uninitiated. The contents can be edited directly, the page is at Wikipedia:Books/FPC terminology. MER-C 12:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I recently started the Dermatology task force and want to create a subpage for the taskforce that addresses dermatologic photos, giving guidelines/recommendations for good images. On that page I was simply going to link over to Wikipedia_talk:Featured_picture_criteria, but also wanted to added a few comments specifically geared towards dermatologic photos (like something about always having a ruler, etc in the picture to keep size in perspective, etc.). I also found a paper online (see [1]) and thought I could integrate some of its pointers into the page. However, I am a dermatologist, not professional photographer, and therefore wanted to know if you, or any of your friends, would help me develop this page? kilbad (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
This one could probably use a few more votes - it's almost at the four votes now, but a great deal of discussion and changes have happened, and I thought it better if it had a couple more days to be examined. Hope noone minds.
Honestly, this image could probably have used a suspension at some point while the details were being hashed out, but it wasn't suspended, so... oh, well. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 04:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Gerrymander could also use more votes. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 05:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for moving the discussion, Shoemaker. I blogged about cropping in January.[2] The blog post refers to a specific type of cropping situation where the border in question is part of the original publication. In other situations (fine artworks, manuscript maps) sometimes a separate border was added at an unknown date after the image was created. The later border would generate irrelevant data in the histogram, so it's necessary to crop out that type of border to get an accurate restoration. DurovaCharge! 06:56, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I hadn't made any serious attempts at full spherical panoramas for wiki. But I've just discovered a useful commons template ((Pano360)) that allows correct viewing of spherical panoramas and so on. Unfortunately it isn't really ready for the prime time. The applet always downloads the full size image, rather than the thumbnail, which is slow with large images. After downloading you can only view images at a fairly small size without fiddling with your java settings. This is the only nearly spherical panorama that I have ever shot, but you can try it in the viewer through the link in the image page or click here. It'll be nice when its possible to display such things in articles, since that type of image looks very strange without an appropriate viewer. Noodle snacks (talk) 10:00, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
A few days ago I asked Papa Lima Whiskey to reconsider his sometimes quarrelsome approach to featured picture candidacies after his input to one of Calliopejen's nominations Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Las Meninas where he had admitted "I can be overly sarcastic".[3] He was not receptive to feedback, and since then he has initiated an off-topic discussion at a candidacy by a new nominator after PLW had already opposed.[4] Now PLW insinuates that I perpetuate systemic bias.[5] In the last six weeks I have contributed featured pictures about France, Canada, Morocco, Argentina, Israel, The Netherlands, Japan, Mexico, and Gaza. The problem is not systemic bias but Papa Lima Whiskey's conduct, which is damaging the morale of other volunteers and hampering efforts at expanding the contributor base to FPC.
PLW has contributed three featured pictures and sometimes offers valuable input, but over months a pattern has also taken shape that he acts disruptively at nominations he opposes or does not support. Earlier this year I offered mediation; Papa Lima Whiskey ignored the offer. When I approached him privately he rebuffed the overture.[6] The issue is not his opinions, but his manner. Few options remain to address the ongoing problem, so if it continues I will open a user conduct request for comment. DurovaCharge! 16:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
DustyBot has received approval to update the FPCs needing feedback template continuously. You can add it to any page with ((FPC urgents)), and I went ahead and added it to the top of this page. Please feel free to add nominations to the template if you think they need more reviews; this will help me to improve its selection criteria. DustyBot won't remove any nominations that you add to the template until they are closed. Wronkiew (talk) 04:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
This is getting a ways down the page, has two versions, and no strong consensus as to which one should be used. I'd appreciate some more discussion. Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Maritana could probably also use some more eyes. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 07:40, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Moved to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 62#Proposal for introduction of NC licensed photos on Wikipedia. To read original thread, click "show". |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Having recently invested quite a lot in photographic gear, I am reluctant to give away my images for free. I have no problem with wikipedia or any other non-commercial organization using them, however I would not like commercial institutions to benefit at my expense. I therefore suggest wikipedia adopt a non commercial license such as CC-NC . This will not violate wikis principles of free knowledge and will convince photographers to release higher resolution pictures as well. It might also convince professional photographers to release their work knowing that their work will not be used for commercial means and that they will still be able to make a living. I don't know if this issue has been discussed before and I know village pump would probably be the place but I wanted some feedback from the photographers before taking it there. --Muhammad(talk) 05:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Won't happen per Jimbo. GFDL is good enough in preventing some commercial use because they need to put a copy of the license close to the photo (which isn't going to happen for adverts, prints, posters and all the usual photo stuff). MER-C 07:43, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Stepping in to clarify: Creative Commons NC licenses are not accepted for upload at Wikimedia Commons. WMF is a nonprofit, but we do not prohibit (and cannot control) commercial reuses of the material we host. Therefore NC-licensed material must be uploaded with a nonfree use rationale, and is subject to the same policy restrictions as fully copyrighted material. I don't particularly like this situation, but understand and agree with the rationale. DurovaCharge! 17:23, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I think we have quite a bit of hubris here on the part of our photographers. While your work is appreciated, it is by no means fundamentally different than the work done by our thousands of article writers. (Collaboration doesn't somehow diminish their efforts.) Wikipedia is and always has been a free culture project. Its goal is education, yes, but it is also the creation of free content. Content that anyone can use for anything. Content whose price is the same as its marginal cost, so that it can be spread as widely as possible and bring the greatest utility to those who would benefit from employing it. Wikipedia's licensing is also forward-looking. Perhaps in a hundred years, the Wikimedia Foundation will no longer exist. Maybe no nonprofit will want to take on hosting Wikipedia, because they can't get the donations necessary to do so. Using a commercial license allows the continuation of Wikipedia content into the future, so long as someone can make a buck doing it. (And this will probably be true for a long, long time.) At this moment, there is no shortage of photographers willing to donate content under wiki's terms. There is no reason to compromise our principles here. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
I think what we're really seeing here is a division in ideology - it's not really about whether it would be possible for Wikipedia to have NC content and still provide free information to the world. It's becoming increasingly clear that there are two understandings of what Wikipedia is about - what Wikipedia stands for. The definition of wikipedia is very simple: Wikipedia is a free, multilingual encyclopedia project. So giving this a plain-sense reading you can get to the scope of wiki, it's the provision of information in the field of general encyclopedic knowledge via the Internet. So Wikipedia's purpose is not to be a resource for people to make a profit on. It's to realize the classic "imagine a world where every person has access to the sum total of human knowledge" quote. It's also ridiculous to suggest it's a resource for others to profit from while at the same time trying to argue that we should enfore GFDL because it will ensure derivative works are kept free. A resource for profit may well be what wikipedia has turned into, thanks to liberal and misunderstood licensing, but that's not its purpose. Again I'd suggest "go thou and consider the ways of the fair use image" - why would fair use images be used if Wikipedia was in fact a resource for people to profit from? They are here because they are extremely informative and important to the articles - their existence conclusively shows that this project is about making an informative, freely available, encyclopedia. I contribute because I believe I'm working towards the "sum of human knowledge" goal. Images are crucial to this goal. I think it's great that a kid in Kenya can see what a kangaroo looks like. But I don't think it's great when people disregard my copyright and use my images left, right and centre for commercial gain. I'm sorry but the idea that we're pouring our work into a free content resource for others to exploit IMO makes the internet The reason Wikipedia works is because of cooperation. Everyone here is giving up their time and effort to the project. Wikipedia's assets are its contributors. That means it should be looking after them, not making life difficult. It should be attempting to get as many positive users onboard as it can. Allowing NC licences is not going to compromise the purpose of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia, rather it is likely to be of great benefit through new users uploading commercial quality content. If people want to be part of a free content movement to upload to there's always Commons. And yes there probably are a lot of users happy to give away their photos and for them to be used as freely as possible. But by and large these people are not uploading high quality imagery. Lets be blunt here, if you haven't spent $$$ on a DSLR and decent lenses and you're not a skilled photographer you're not going to get an FP. Yes there are exceptions but by and large the people who consistently take FP quality images are those who have a spent a lot of money and have talent. These are also (by and large) the people who are then wanting to recoup some of their investment and are thus reluctant to lose the commercial value of their photos. They're happy to donate to free knowledge but not happy for people to disregard their rights and ride the back of their work for profit. If wikipedia is going to be the best it can, it needs to have FP quality images. By offering the protection of NC licensing it would be extremely encouraging for semi-pro photographers to contribute their work - which is going to be a great benefit to Wikipedia as an encyclopedia. So the question really becomes what would you rather: a freely accessible encyclopedia with the best content possible (including NC), or a free content repository which (possibly) comes at the cost of commercial grade photography? I know which one I'd prefer! --Fir0002 07:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC) Damn I wish these kind of debates came up out of semester when I'd have more time!!
I wonder who is exploiting whom. So far all the prominent FPC contributors have enjoyed the exposure their work gets from appearing on the frontpage of one of the world's most popular websites. You guys already get widely idolized despite of uploading only downsampled versions of your images and clinging to the hard-to-reuse GFDL-1.2. And now you are even asking for NC licenses?! This is very disappointing. :-( --Dschwen 16:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
As an aside, many months ago I approached the Foundation about allowing NC images in place of fair use images for subjects where no truly free image exists. That is to say that NC might be allowed, but only when there was no more free alternative was available to show the same subject. Personally, I consider NC to be much clearer for reusers than fair use, since in both cases a commercial reuser may need to remove images, but NC provides a bright line while fair use is fuzzy and ought to be looked at on a case by case basis. The Foundation was open to the idea of using limited NC images at the time, provided that the community backed it. Though there would still be a tension between the desire to encourage people to create truly free content and the desire to have any photo at all of a difficult to obtain subject. Dragons flight (talk) 20:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
It's been Wikimedia's long-standing position that allowing commercial re-use contributes to its educational mission (the negative impact of stupid commercial uses is outweighed by the positive impact of educational, commercial uses), and that position is unlikely to change. That said, I do believe we need a license that clearly has a "strong copyleft" effect on photographs and similar media, so that when they are used e.g. in newspaper articles, the surrounding articles would need to be copylefted, too. That is consistent with our licensing policy, but neither the GFDL nor CC-BY-SA have really developed clear and unambiguous language to this effect. Creative Commons is open to modifying CC-BY-SA to clarify that copyleft applies on images used in the context of other works (as opposed to only applying to modifications to the image itself). While not helping you with all use cases you're concerned about (it would still allow commercial use in ads, provided the ads are freely licensed), it should certainly limit use in ways which are consistent with our values. This is something we can continue to work on together. Beyond that, I'd encourage the people concerned about commercial use to think about Wikipedia not as their primary publishing platform, but as a way to highlight and promote some of their work, while generating revenue elsewhere.--Eloquence* 01:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
There are also dozens of threads on Commons and the listservs, but I think the links above give the best explanations. I apologize if I was curt in my earlier comments, but hearing this proposal from photographers who are actively benefiting from their exposure on Wikipedia (judging by how many inquiries you guys have on your talk pages) seemed somewhat less than altruistic to me. I will, however, assume good faith and believe that you guys are pursuing this issue for selfless reasons ("karma", etc). Kaldari (talk) 16:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm afraid I won't be able to engage in this thread fully. I do want to respond to the issue of fair use vs. non-commercial imagery. Our policy towards fair use has always been to seriously limit it, and replace fair use content wherever possible. To quote the licensing policy, "such [fair use policies] must be minimal. Their use, with limited exception, should be to illustrate historically significant events, to include identifying protected works such as logos, or to complement (within narrow limits) articles about copyrighted contemporary works. A [fair use policy] may not allow material where we can reasonably expect someone to upload a freely licensed file for the same purpose, such as is the case for almost all portraits of living notable individuals. Any content used under a [fair use policy] must be replaced with a freely licensed work whenever one is available which will serve the same educational purpose." [8] So while Dragons flight is of course correct that NC is preferable to fair use, the point I would make is that we consider fair use a "necessary evil", and try to eliminate fair use content wherever possible. I don't think the people arguing here for uploading NC content would want to do so under the presumption that their contributions are a "necessary evil" and will get deleted and replaced aggressively where possible, even when the replacement is of lower quality. So I think the fair use policy and the free content policy are truly distinct and separate and need to be treated as such. In general, I don't think this is an issue where you're going to be able to find a middle ground solution. As the Flickr statistics indicate, once you allow people to place restrictions on their content, many of them will choose to do so. In fact, you will probably change the dynamics of your community from a strongly freedom-oriented, sharing community to one that's more pragmatic (and to some extent self-interested). If your goal is to maximize freedom, a clear set of principles expressed through policy tends to be the best way to achieve that. The tension is one between short term and long term impact, between obvious immediate benefits and partially hypothetical ones. This is even more visible, in my opinion, in our insistence to use a format like Ogg Theora for video instead of the established proprietary Flash video formats.--Eloquence* 19:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
As a FPC observer for quite some time i would just like to add that the current wikipedia policy of not accepting NC content really seams ludicrous. Basically its saying that "No, we don't want high quality content that would considerable improve the encyclopaedia because that content would not be available for the commercial use of entities completed unrelated to wikipedia". How can this be a logical position to hold for the purpose building of a great encyclopaedia? It seams the only party that this policy benefits is the commercial entities who are provided with a large repository of free content. --58.175.36.151 (talk) 01:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC) Request temporary suspension of this discussion pending a move in venue to the Village pump. But before we can move we need to make a coherent and relatively breif summary of what we've gone through already (obviously we can still link back to this full discussion but lets not make it too intimidating). I propose the format here. Note that summary is fairly sketchy owing to time constraints on my part so please feel free to adjust credits and add any significant considerations or support statements that I've forgotten --Fir0002 11:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
This discussion has been moved to the Village Pump. All new comments should be made here --Fir0002 09:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC) |
Can some one explain how this became an FP? There was no consensus and it doesn't say it was promoted. Any ideas? ~ ωαdεstεr16♣TC♣
This image does not meet the current size requirements, but only just barely. I would be bold and suggest a delist, but it seems too close for me to do that. At the time, I assume it met size requirements. What should be done? ~ ωαdεstεr16♣TC♣ 23:55, 8 March 2009 (UTC) Same goes for this. ~ ωαdεstεr16♣TC♣ 00:05, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I'd appreciate any additional comments. Thanks! Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 14:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Comments here and here would be appreciated. Thanks --Muhammad(talk) 18:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I understand and support nominating and discussing photos taken by Wikipedians, but what's the point when the photos come from external sources? Do we really want to all sit and talk about photos one by one? There are millions of photos that would qualify as FPs, of which some significant portion would be free-licensed.
This image brought it home. I thought it was a wikipedian's photo - great. But if it's just a stock photo...why are we taking all the time and effort to drip feed them in? We'd be much better off organising to get thousands in at once. And then save our breath for discussing locally generated content. Stevage 01:02, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Could we consider splitting FPC into an "original content" (or significant work in improving externally sourced content), and "other"? FPC should partially be about showing off what the Wikipedia community has achieved. What's the point of showing off someone else's material? By all means, gather the high quality stuff, and mark it as such (so that people just looking for some nice photos can find them)...but why "feature" it? Anyone interested in coming up with a proposal? Stevage 02:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
See here. I wonder why this was not mentioned during the extensive discussion we had above. --Muhammad(talk) 07:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
I've been suspecting this for a while but today's closures confirm it. Our standards are slipping. Two examples:
So be sure to review those images at full size and tell us about any problems you find. MER-C 10:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Three more:
I think I'll fail only the egregious ones on sight from now on but I would like the certainty that any debate held up in this manner would not be closed in the meantime. MER-C 04:18, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
This entire conversation is a lengthy attack on everything related to restoring images. PNGs are attacked, higher-resolution is attacked, and work spent cleaning dirt is ignored, treating an unrestored colour-adjusted version as the equal of a five-hour cleaning job.
If it was simple opposes because of the image tself, that would be one thing, but instead, after spending hours working on something, I woke up the next day to find out I had been brutally and publicly attacked for preparing a cleaned, higher-resolution version, and that not one person thought that maybe they should step in and deal with the situation.
Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 02:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Who, when or what is EV? Seems like EV is the magic that gets a picture promoted but I can't find any ref. Ronnotel (talk) 10:35, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I'd appreciate some more comments on this FPC. Thanks! SpencerT♦Nominate! 16:44, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
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PNG is the lossless file type that all serious restoration needs to be saved in, but Wikipedia's thumbnailing software handles it extremely poorly. I think we have a problem here.
A bug report has been filed as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18014 Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 06:03, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Great news, fellow image folks. Wikimedia Commons has started accepting TIFF files. The larger ones don't thumbnail (yet). More information at my blog.[9] DurovaCharge! 14:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The basic idea of holding nominations for more feedback is a useful one: it helps to ensure that all nominations receive enough reviews to establish consensus. Yet some of our nominations seem to be getting held for longer than necessary. For instance, an image that has been up since March 6 has 7 supports, 1 weak oppose, and 1 oppose (Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Mission San Juan Capistrano, 1899). To be candid, it makes me less likely to go and review the other holdovers when this happens, because it leaves me wondering whether the section is getting tended closely enough so I go and prioritize other things. Unless there's a rationale for the holdover that hasn't been articulated? DurovaCharge! 15:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
You have your reason above - essentially my confidence in the process to screen out unsuitable images has plummeted. That one has questionable enc for the reasons given. And please, let's not start this stupid drama again. MER-C 08:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just a heads up: This was one of my first colour FPs, and I'm now incredibly embarrassed by it, so I'm doing a major re-edit. I'll put it up for re-confirmation as FP after I'm done. In the meantime, I've uploaded a partially restored version, just to get rid of the appalling restoration I did before. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 00:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I've been approached by someone wanting to use my photo, but they are requesting to only include the CC-BY-SA logo/mark instead of a link/URL to the license text. I don't mean to be a pain but as I understand it, this is not acceptable, as the license states under 4a: "You may Distribute or Publicly Perform the Work only under the terms of this License. You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) for, this License with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform.". Can anyone confirm this? This person has contacted the CC office in Taiwan who advised them to include the mark insgead of the license link, but it still seems wrong to me as not everyone who sees the mark will recognise it or understand the terms, and only a link to the license text would allow them to. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 06:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Currently hosting three images, but no reason given for why they are suspended, who suspended them, or what needs to happen to get them unsuspended. Noms in the "additional input required" section have a brief comment for why. This needs to be provided for suspended noms too. --jjron (talk) 06:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Fwiw, in my first post to PLW's user talk I offered to answer his questions if he would move his off-topic memorial to retired Wikipedians, since that part really had nothing to do with the nomination. It looks very much that he stalled and evaded that reasonable request rather than comply with it, and in doing so successfully sank the nomination. What do fellow FPC reviewers suggest for that sort of thing in future? I have offered mediation, attempted discreet dialog, etc. As noted above, am on the verge of filing conduct RFC but really would rather resolve things amicably. It is indeed frustrating, after three quarters of a year, to put long work into limited supplies of historic imagery and watch this happen. DurovaCharge! 03:33, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
More input in a few of my nominations here and here would be appreciated. Thanks --Muhammad(talk) 06:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The following proposal was made on WT:FP, a page that isn't read as much as we'd like. :)
Has there been any thought to creating a featured/valued picture series, which would be analogous to the featured/good topics?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, we have featured picture sets, for example Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Early flight 02562u.jpg. howcheng {chat} 06:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- Though some oppose the idea and hence will oppose all such nominations. Noodle snacks (talk) 06:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- I was thinking more like a set of pictures that illustrates a series of articles. Suppose there were a set of individual images of the first family that were all FP/VP or a set of images of the Wonders of the World that were all featured. I did not mean a literal picture set like you showed, but rather individual images a that are nominated separately that form a set. That could encourage picture taking much like FT and GT spur editorial activity to complete sets.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Comments? MER-C 11:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Considering the known factual errors in our largest existing featured picture set, I'm wary of the idea. We ought to screen what we have better before expanding that idea. DurovaCharge! 03:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
If you are wondering what Jjron is talking about, have a look at the McCain nomination. The nomination was posted on Template:WPMILHIST Announcements and ended up on several member user pages and other pages designed to increase participation. I count 3 supports and 0 opposes that wouldn't have happened otherwise. They are good faith editors yet I doubt (strongly) as to whether they are able to review images to the standard that FP requires. MER-C 13:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
MER-C makes a cogent comment above, in a slightly different direction. Do FPC regulars resent the MILHIST review department? It's been my impression that the project's main response to FPC has been polite apathy. But if it's actually resented, ought to be discussed. DurovaCharge! 17:18, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The problem is with any WikiProject notification, impartial or not, which is designed to be seen by a lot of people (I picked on MILHIST because there was a current example). Problematic notifications include templates, general noticeboards and project talk pages. In MILHIST's case the ones I object to are the notice on Template:WPMILHIST Announcements and wherever it is transcluded e.g. Portal:War. (The review page is fine because it appears to have a limited audience.)
Here's another example: Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Image:Heidfeld and Rosberg - 2008 Melb GP.jpg: posted on a project talk page => 4 project originated pretty picture supports.
There is no formal directorship, but I close 90% of the nominations. I exercise some discretion (I had to fail a 7/0 nomination recently) but probably won't be able to get away with it for an extended period or for egregious cases. MER-C 07:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
It has been proposed that the Commons ((Assessments)) template be upgraded and updated. This is being done the right way (especially due to prior drama), such that everyone interested can have their say and no user will go off and implement this template against (or without) consensus. So, the proposal is that a new template be made which incorporates information about an image that the community deems useful. This will all be done in one template, similar to the current template. In a perfect world, I would like to see this template replace the current en:wiki FP template, which is redundant of the Assessments template. This version of the template will take into account the wishes and goals of local language wikis, which was not the case when the current version was created. This way, we can get many ideas flowing for the project and make it as universal as possible. Please visit and comment at the current ongoing discussion. Help may be needed with coding, so help from anybody with that background and the interest would be really appreciated.
On more of a side note, it should be noted that I went through all FPs on en:wiki and tagged them with the Assessments template if they didn't have it. There was mention previously that some users think the Commons template is redundant of our template here at en:wiki. I disagree. In working at the es:wiki, I've found it invaluable to use the Commons template since it is viewable at any/every other wiki, while the en:wiki template only exists here. One argument presented was that there are FPs here that are not at Commons due to copyright. This is true, but I only found seven (i.e. a local template can be made for these very few exceptions). I've been trying to keep up with newly promoted FPs, adding the template so all our FPs are tagged. I also moved every eligible FP to Commons if it was hosted here (see my list of completed work). This means if/when a new template is completed, a bot can retag all images currently tagged with Assessments, therefore covering almost all en FPs. Two things a Commons template can't do: add the FP star to the top corner of an en:wiki FP, and add an image to a category at en:wiki. To solve that, I would propose keeping the current FP template, but only using it to include the star and cat.
This is not a formal proposal of replacing the current en:wiki FP template, just a request for input at the Assessments template. When its replacement is up, running, and stable, hopefully we can have the conversation about decommissioning the redundant en:wiki template. ~ ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» 06:18, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I think that we should continue to categorise images here, and to get that little star in the upper right is going to need a local template. That said, I've actually been considering suggesting adding a mention of tagging the images at commons as well as here to the closing instructions. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 17:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
There's a new page at Wikimedia Commons for people who are interested in image restoration. It contains several dozen images that are suitable for novice to intermedite level restoration projects, all prescreened for quality and difficulty and uploaded with source documentation. Selections cover a wide variety of media and interests, with more coming. :)
To join, select a favorite image and remove it from the galleries. Sign at the bottom of the page with the filename of the image you've selected. Basic restoration tips are at a Wikiversity course, with more assistance available upon request. DurovaCharge! 23:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The bot removes delists from the Urgents template, so I'll put this here.
The image is scheduled to run on the 31st, so we kind of need to sort it by that date, if possible. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 15:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Hurry: express your opinions on the suggested MainPage featured picture candidates for April Fool's Day (April 1) at Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Today's Featured Picture, or nominate other suggestions. Spikebrennan (talk) 16:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
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