This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 11 dates. [show] |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The numbers are listed as 1 killed and 3 wounded, but at another part of the article it says that two British snipers killed and wounded a number of Argentine soldiers. What's the story with this? Did the Argentinian government play down the number of men they lost? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.37.186.210 (talk) 04:18, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
The Royal Marines' own official report: "Report by Major M J Norman Royal Marines Invasion of Falkland Islands on Friday 2 April 1982" dated 18 April 1982 states specifically 5 Argentine servicemen killed, 17 wounded, 3 prisoners and 1 Amtrack vehicle destroyed. These were only the ones seen around Government House. The article is in error; Cpl. Terry Pares was not a sniper. However, Cpl. Gill did claim in his report and subsequent interviews to have killed two and hit a third who was classed as wounded as he was not seen dead. Cpl. Pares engaged another who was classed as a 'confirmed kill'. To this should be added the sinking of an LCVP Landing Craft[1] which was wrongly ascribed to Marine R. Overall. Just for the record, the men listed as wounded needs amendment: Padre Maffezini caught his eye on a low-hanging telegraph wire and required two stitches, which was after the battle. Lt. Cmdr Santillan fell during a charge at Fairy Cove towards Navy Point and suffered an 'acute sprain' of the ankle. Neither are battle casualties. Full list of sources and information is listed in The First Casualty - The Untold Story of the Falklands War by Military Historian Ricky D Phillips which reveals that the true figure may well have been at least 100 killed and wounded on the Argentine side, who were later disposed of with napalm on April 21 1982[2] Real History Man (talk) 11:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
I happen to know that the book in question "The First Casualty" is NOT an WP:SPS but is traditionally published. I appreciate any edits to reflect the two reports. Real History Man (talk) 13:29, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
An editor has decided based on his own research to add the claim that only 90 Argentine soldiers engaged British forces. This is a ridiculous claim to make, at any one time not all soldiers would be engaged in combat so it could have been a dozen soldiers at Governement House on the British side for example. Its further ridiculous since the commander of the Argentine forces is well known for stating they thought if they came in great numbers it would deter the British from defending the islands. The person responsible has since revert warred their changes into the article. Would be grateful for a revert back to last stable consensus version. WCMemail 13:03, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Well the source does not say 90 men in combat, it says 90 commandos landed at Mullet creek for a decapitation operation.Slatersteven (talk) 11:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
84 Argentine special forces landed at Mullet Creek, 14 Buzo Tactico landed on the Santa Fe, added to this are Alpha Company BIM1, plus Delta, Echo and Fox companies BIM2 in 21 Amtrack amphibious vehicles. There were also a large amount of Argentine personnel both seen and killed/wounded for whom there is no unit recognition currently. Real History Man (talk) 08:15, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:14, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
I have a significant problem with the section referenced to the book "The First Casualty" by Ricky D. Phillips, published by BEIC Books Ltd, ("British East India Company Books") which Companies House shows Phillips as being an officer of here, and says he's the managing director here. It appears to have a repertoire of exactly one book. Clearly self published.
What bona fides does Phillips have to be described as a Military Historian? I can find none. The book being mentioned in some newspapers lends it little credibility. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. This fails the WP:REDFLAG test. It should be removed. (Hohum @) 15:25, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
[4] This is all I'm suggesting. WCMemail 07:01, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
I think we at least need to avoid actively advertising or plugging the book as this edit does. It appears to me that the source we are actually using is the newspaper reports that refer to the book, not the book itself, so those are the appropriate references.
On the wider point, I must say I share some of Hohum's concerns about this. The Portsmouth local paper is the only one that comes close to being independent here. The Plymouth paper basically gives Phillips a column to write about his book, the Express story boils down to, some guy wrote a book and this is what it says, notably attributing every claim to the book rather than treating it as fact. Do we have any evidence of wider coverage or acceptance of these claims? Kahastok talk 19:13, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
The veterans' responses ARE the claims in the book. It would seem curious that those same men are quoted here but disbelieved elsewhere? What we have here is a purely Argentine perspective which is not representative of the Marines' own reports or points of view and therefore is not objective but biased. Real History Man (talk) 07:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
That is his claim and I'm lucky enough to know him and a number of these amazing veterans. I actually find it laughable how certain people seem intent on being 'better at Wiki' than in actually promoting and representing the historical truth...or even being interested in it. I can tell you 100% that the veterans' responses back up the 'claims' and I put that in parentheses because (had you read it) you would see that it is their claims backed up by him as a historian... not the other way around. So please... be 'better at Wiki' if it makes you feel powerful or whatever, but be aware that you are wrong and that you are biased, prejudiced, bordering upon 'troll' if not already way past that mark (WCM that is) and so determined to 'be right' that you refuse to accept anything which might challenge your own perceptions... I think you have a lonely life, trolling Wiki all day. Real History Man (talk) 17:54, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be soap-box for some personal pride here and it's yours, my friends. Now let us start to chat...that's what we historians do. There isn't line of code for that, you'll be sorry to learn, it's called 'knowledge' - I'm sure Wikipedia has a link to it. If you don't bristle at the education too much, you might just learn something. Do try it.
Now, let's talk about 'Peer Review' - Professor Tony Pollard, Head of Conflict History at Glasgow University (You should know that, WCM you'r not as faceless as you think) and also a Falklands Specialist, presenter of 'Nazi Megastructures' and 'Two Men in a Trench' on History Channel, considered the UK's top battlefield archaeologist and even possibly the world's top....his peer review appears on the back cover of that book and in full on the last page. Likewise with Declan Power who wrote 'Siege at Jadotivile' - another battle they said didn't happen until he unveiled it. Now it is fact.
Now, having ascertained that, despite your attempts at actively trolling an defaming a person, the book is NOT self published (an edit you're screaming about, I notice) I see very little in the way of credibility for your own arguments. I even noticed that you undid a recent edit which corrected who specifically shot Pedro Giachino...It mentions Mick Sellen (who definitely did although he died of cancer in 2013), Harry Dorey (who was stuck to Sir Rex Hunt all night and was nowhere near the action), and Marine Fleet...who at that specific time was in the UK, having been part of the advance party home...I find not ONE verifiable source to state that Cpl. Gordon Fleet was there or shot Pedro Giachino. It would, of course, be the longest shot in th world, having stratched 8,000 miles around half the globe. I assume you have the full list of people who were there? No? I already know you don't. I can assure you that the first shot fired at Pedro Giachino was by Marine Colin 'Tiny' Jones who was joined by Mick Sellen, Andy Macdonald and Murray Paterson...but do please produce a line of code which says that someone 8000 miles away could have shot him. Diego Quiroga - lovely man by the way - will happily tell anyone that he wasn't just shot in the arm (the right by the way...there doesn't seem to be a line of code for that, either) but also full in the chest which broke four ribs and cut his liver in half. He was also shot in the pelvis but his Swiss army knife absorbed the blow. He still has the bullet. It's a 9mm so could only have been fired by Mick Sellen. Met his wife Sandie once, lovely lady. So don't let an old historian who knows something hamper your efforts to tag some rule. I recommend that you listen to experience, wisdom and good, old fashioned common sense. It is lacking these days. All I see is a blatant, personal attempt by you to attack and defame someone for some very personal reasons and - although we both know what they are - I shall refrain from using them here.
In short, do us a favour...there's probably a rule, a line of code, a 'something' but there is also knowledge and common sense which you lack behind your keyboard there. Educate yourself. Wikipedia is here to be a resource of what is. It is here to promote knowledge, understanding and (God be praised if a younger generation get this) research, which includes conjecture. Please do go on to list every infraction of some rule somewhere, but you are simply being 'better at Wiki' - you are not right, you are abusing that privilege and - as anyone here will see - you are getting drubbed because your understanding of history is tainted by a perverse bias. Here's an idea....stop holding onto this like it's your first-born and you yourself might learn something.
I think we would all benefit from the experience. Real History Man (talk) 18:22, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Bizarre and wonderfully factual. I see not one reference to say that Cpl. Fleet shot Giachino. Not one reference to say that 90% or more of this actually happened the way it is set out. A helpful Wiki editor might say something helpful or realise that maybe there's more to it, maybe we should help this guy...none of it. And I am forced to question the validity of so many things on this page for which there is not one reference. Take the example of Cpl. Gordon Fleet (the record breaker 8,000 miles distant) where does the page reference him as having shot Pedro Giachino? Real History Man (talk) 16:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Based on the above, and on the information in this thread on AN/I, I have removed from this article the information that is based on Ricky D Phillips' The First Casualty, on the grounds that the author is not an accredited expert on the subject, despite describing himself as a "military historian" (but providing no information on his bona fides), and therefore the book is not a reliable source. (Yes, the edit itself is based on a news story, but the news story only exists because of the claims made by the book. It is not an independently verified source for the verifiability of what is in the book.) The prima facie evidence for this is clear, but if User:Real History Man wishes to dispute it, the place to do so is on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard, not here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:32, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive958#Real History Man, Conflict of Interest editing and Personal Attacks Permanent link to the ANI thread. WCMemail 18:35, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:31, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
I reverted a number of recent changes that changed numbers and added a degree of precision I'm not sure is warranted. Sources vary saying between 25-40 of the FIDF turned out, so the precise figure of 43 seems to not reflect the range of views in the literature. Similarly the RFIP was added, an unarmed civilian police force that took no part in the fighting. I don't think these changes were an improvement to the article. WCMemail 09:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
[url=https://postimg.cc/image/bnzbl0wrv/][img]https://s33.postimg.cc/bnzbl0wrv/5502920627e57eff15e6b.jpg[/img][/url]
The trio were briefly detained as POWs but then let go around midday. Any chance in finding out their ranks and full names? PS.--Vanberkel (talk) 13:37, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
I've got the names of the 3 Policemen captured after the surrender in Government House: Ronnie Lamb, Anton Livermore and Terry Peck (recalled from retirement in the hours prior to the Argentine landings).--Vanberkel (talk) 23:27, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
~~The article currently says there were only 2 full time constables; Superintendent Lamb and an unidentified woman. Plus several special constables appointed the evening before the invasion. Simon Levchenko (talk) 00:57, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
I gave a pretty informative edit summary why I was removing the material recently added. So I am rather unsure why Vanberkel has simply reverted demanding I start a talk page discussion, when WP:BRD would suggest that he does so (and without reverting). I'll expand on my edit summary by pointing out this is WP:FRINGE material in relation to the main subject, in that the FIDF did not take part in any offensive action and are little more than a footnote and as such the WP:DUE coverage would be limited. Given recent edits by that editor, I'm rather suspicious that these edits seem designed to give a rather distorted picture of the battle implying that the 2,500 Argentine troops faced rather more than the 57 Royal Marines and 22 Royal Navy sailors they attacked. WCMemail 01:23, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Roger 8 Roger In relation to the edits you disputed, I do not see how the information I added would've supplanted any of that which is still there. Simon Levchenko (talk) 01:11, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Here [8] is a discussion about the over use of flag icons. Can anyone think of a valid reason for keeping flags in the infobox? If not I will remove them. I think there is also a good case to be made for removing much of the finer detail of the engagement. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:02, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Can we have a section which sums up the number of people killed and wounded in this invasion? Thanks. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 00:33, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)