A fact from Assembly theory appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 July 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that assembly theory provides an experimentally verifiable way of detecting extraterrestrial life without needing to define what life is? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Assembly theory.

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ought to consider implications of this for abiogenesis -- Waveguy (talk) 04:59, 1 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The original article with a quotation of Cronin referring to his work as a hypothesis. The article offers no evidence that Cronin's hypothesis (as he himself characterizes) enjoys substantial support and scrutiny to characterize the work as a scientific theory. Evolution is a theory based on all of the characteristics one would expect from a hypothesis promoted to theory by repeated failure of attempts of falsification, confirmation of elements of the hypothesis, widespread endorsement, explication of consilience with established theory, etc. Demasio's work is called the somatic marker hypothesis, and is far more known and explored than this claim, and to accidentally promote this hypothesis to theory by equivocating between the lay sense of theory (guess, hypothesis) with the rigorous sense of theory (as in gravity, evolution, and Hebbian firing) is problematic. One doesn't "invent a theory" (original language), one proposes a hypothesis which eventually because so prominent and prevalent in the literature (and the hearts and minds of scientists) that it attains the property. Is there really a rejoinder to this complaint?

2023-06-09 jtvisona (talk)

While the word "Theory" is often used for an hypotheses that has been well established and accepted, "Theory" is also quite frequently used to refer to an organizing framework or collection of otherwise established observation. Wikipedia vital articles level-4/Mathematics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/4/Mathematics) lists, under Other, both "Number Theory" and "Category Theory" as established approaches to and areas of knowledge that were collected together under these titles. If there ever was a Number Hypothesis or Category Hypothesis, it's did not refer to the same collection of ideas. I know less of "String Theory", but the same may be true there.

A recent issue of Science, 22 Aug 2023, in a News article (doi: 10.1126/science.adk4451, ) talked of six theories of consciousness being identified for use in evaluating Large Language Model Systems, and identified "the Recurrent Processing Theory", " the Global Neuronal Workspace Theory," as well as "Higher Order Theories". The second already has a Wikipedia page.

That complex things can be built out of simpler pieces is well established, and that large concentration of identical or very similar complex things is uncommon in the absence of living systems is well established in statistics. Assembly theory is an attempt to identify and organize these facts as a way to look at what it would serve to identify the presence of "life". This also has implications for different way of looking at Time, as in American Scientist, Sept-Oct 2023

Rodion.rathbone (talk) 15:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A serious omission in the current version of this article: exactly when this hypothesis was proposed by chemist Leroy Cronin and developed by the team he leads at the University of Glasgow, and exactly when it was extended in collaboration with a team at Arizona State University led by astrobiologist Sara Imari Walker. Adding these dates (or months/years) will help to make this article more properly encyclopedic. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 17:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are a number of issues with the current article, but the one that immediately jumps out is the lead, which does not describe assembly theory in the broader terms of reconciling physics and evolution. This is taken from the abstract of the team's latest paper, and summarises the theory and its implications in considerably more accurate (although admittedly scientific) terms:

Scientists have grappled with reconciling biological evolution with the immutable laws of the Universe defined by physics. These laws underpin life’s origin, evolution and the development of human culture and technology, yet they do not predict the emergence of these phenomena. Evolutionary theory explains why some things exist and others do not through the lens of selection. To comprehend how diverse, open-ended forms can emerge from physics without an inherent design blueprint, a new approach to understanding and quantifying selection is necessary. We present assembly theory (AT) as a framework that does not alter the laws of physics, but redefines the concept of an ‘object’ on which these laws act. AT conceptualizes objects not as point particles, but as entities defined by their possible formation histories. This allows objects to show evidence of selection, within well-defined boundaries of individuals or selected units.

Also, the update to the theory as covered in the new paper needs to be included in the article. There are popular articles on the updated theory on both phys.org and Nature.

Cadar (talk) 17:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Recently, a critical views section was added, and then deleted without any specific reasons. I added it again because I believe it provides a wider and more complete view on the subject. If anyone removes it again, it will be plausible to give good and strong reasons to do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JulioISalazarG (talk • contribs) 03:54, 14 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As the person who originally created this article, I agree it should be included. At the time I created it, assembly theory was still a new thing and criticism hadn't been published. ~Anachronist (talk) 07:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Anachronist and @JulioISalazarG I reverted the changes because it was added by a paid editing farm, specifically User:Pohzxd, who originally added the Critical views section and is also the reason I added the UPE tag to article. Anachronist, given you created the article and still keep an eye on it, I will leave it in your expert hands. S0091 (talk) 19:59, 15 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm not being paid by anyone and I added it again because (1) I believe Wikipedia should offer a wide and complete view on any subject and (2) there's no reason to deleted it regarding the content and arguments on the subject. JulioISalazarG (talk) 20:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Correction - it was originally added by User:Trueo, another blocked sock by the same paid editing farm. S0091 (talk) 20:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@S0091: It appears that addition by Trueo was the first edit done by that account. Looking at the contribution history, it looks like part of an attempt to achieve autoconfirmed status quickly, although it's an unusually lengthy edit for such a purpose. No sources were cited, and I would have reverted that addition also on that basis. However, what JulioISalazarG added included citations to a couple of decent sources. Paid editing or not, it was a good addition that summarizes those sources succinctly. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:55, 16 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Anachronist good enough for me. I had not plans/reason to remove the material again anyway but thought I should explain my actions. I also see after my revert @JulioISalazarG was reverted two other times, once by MaterialScientist (although Julio was self-reverting, they got an unexplained removal notice on their talk page), then again by an IP (odd) which was promptly reverted by another editor. Messy. JulioISalazarG, I was not accusing you of being paid; only explaining why I reverted and you did the right thing by raising your concerns here. S0091 (talk) 14:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Contributions should be evaluated by their own merit. Strange the hypotheses about paid editors. Just like Encyclopedia Brittanica should not be cancelled as a credible source because editors get paid, writers and editors who contribute good content should not be suggested not to be credible on the basis of something else than their contributions.

As an enthusiast about Wikipedia articles as a way to provide complete and accessible information about scientific theories, I agree Wikipedia should include critical views and many, wider, perspectives about science. In particular, it’s strongly acceptable to have critical points of view on [Assembly Theory], as, from the best of my knowledge, it has important gaps that should be discussed, clarified and verified Dr. Chinguetas (talk) 20:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

They are not paid by Wikipedia for writing good articles, they are paid by third parties for making those third parties look good. Wikipedia has rules about that: WP:PE.

And it is not a scientific theory, it is "abject wankwaffle", as one critic put it. --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:46, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Speaking for me, I repeat that I was not being paid by anyone (in fact, I can accuse you of the same thing). The section was deleted again without any specific or good reason. So I will add it once more, if necessary, I'll keep doing it until the real paid ones stop deleting it. JulioISalazarG (talk) 04:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]