NationStates

in the website Nationstates.net, this flag is shown as the default flag, should we mention this somewhere in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.188.33 (talk) 17:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC) This NationStates website is run by; Aborigines? Australians?Some fringe political group? Who? Web geeks? Who and what relevance does a website have to this flag? Has life in Australia become subservient to any website that people create?Ern Malleyscrub (talk) 08:31, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Role in new Australian flags

A lot of people have suggested replacing the Union Jack with the Aboriginal flag in the canton of the Australian flag. I don't have the time to research it myself, but if I recall correctly the designer of the flag (who has copyright over it, by the way) does not approve such use. If anyone can find anything, that might be worth noting somehow. El T 13:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think there was a discussion about this somewhere. As I'm only making a brief stop in, I don't have time to find it, but I remember somebody arguing there was no copyright. I agree that any expansion should take into account the flag's potential uses. --Cyberjunkie | Talk 13:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Not PD

It's a very sad thing, but I really, really don't think this flag is PD. Please see Image talk:Australian aboriginal flag.png for discussion.

Would be interesting to see if it survives a copyright-infringement claim by the Belgish or Germans though ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.94.74.212 (talk) 04:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

--pfctdayelise 18:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If the Aboriginal flag at Image:Australian aboriginal flag.png is a copyvio, then so is the second image currently on this article (Image:Aboriginal australian republican flag.PNG), which is derived from it according to that image's description. --Scott Davis Talk 00:31, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
There is no reason that the flag image cannot be used under the provisions of fair use. Just floow the instructions on Wikipedia:Image description page, and add the tag ((Non-free fair use in)). The images should most probably be removed from the Australian flag template.--nixie 01:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I have added the fair use tag to the republican flag and uploaded to wikipedia rather than commons which didnt allow fair use, so I put it back in the article Astrokey44 03:43, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The copyright status of the Australian Aboriginal Flag was discussed extensively in November 2015 and the result was keep. For use in Australia, see the Australian Government website reference in the present article. Wikiain (talk) 21:54, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Black

I know its popularly said to represent "the people's skin" but I think black on this flag is more likely to represent the night sky. People dont often put their skin colour on a flag? and even if they did it would be brown rather than black. It would be like white people thinking the white parts of the Australian flag also represent the peoples skin. Astrokey44 22:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, though I did read somewhere that when he created it, it was ambiguous. I think that quote was from the court case in 97. perhaps it was unclear what the colours meant when it was created but he clarified it later? Astrokey44 04:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. Snottygobble | Talk 04:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Featured flags

There are a couple of featued flag articles, like Flag of Hong Kong and Flag of South Africa which could be used to help structure this article. There should probably also be a mention that despite suggestion- Thomas does not want a hybrid of this flag to replace the current Aus Flag.--nixie 10:59, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Condoms

Enough reverting! I think I removed this from the article myself at one stage: [[Condom]]s in the colours of the Aboriginal flag won a health award in 2005. [http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1502307.htm] I don't support this being in the article. Maybe if it was explained, as per the article, that it was to encourage Aboriginal people to have safe sex, familiarity etc... or maybe we should put that in some article on indigeneous health. They weren't even in the design of the flag - just the colours.

I also don't support a random news story about the flag being desecrated, as was at one stage being added. To my mind they're similarly irrelevant.

User:Pharoz - careful with your Wikipedia:Minor edits. Adding or removing information should rarely if ever be marked "minor". pfctdayelise 16:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be better in a broader context, mentioning how the colours of the flag are used in many contexts. JPD (talk) 09:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would second the comment above by JPD, placing this issue in a broader context of how the colours of the flag are used in many contexts. I thought the first draft of this comment was inconguent with the rest of the article, and with an entry on a flag; but the current draft is an improvement. How people from outside Australia would read the page might also be considered. My apologies for incorrectly marking my edit as "minor". Pharoz 14:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming the article

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Orderinchaos 18:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I propose that the name of this article be changed from "Australian Aboriginal flag" (official in the 1995 proclamation) to "Australian Aboriginal Flag" (official in the 2008 proclamation - and to be similar to Torres Strait Islander Flag, also official from 2008). "Australian Aboriginal flag" would then redirect to "Australian Aboriginal Flag". Any views? --Wikiain (talk) 00:17, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Australian Aboriginal flag → Australian Aboriginal Flag – There being no reactions, I have tried "Move". But it is reported that the page already exists, apparently because "Flag" is counted as the same as "flag". Simple renaming would be better, but move appears to be required. Grateful for assistance. --Wikiain (talk) 00:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

There was a stubborn redirect in the way. Deleted that and effected the move. Orderinchaos 18:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. --Wikiain (talk) 22:09, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:Melbourne Trades Hall entrance flags at top.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Harold Thomas, a Luritja man

The article has stated for some time that Harold Thomas "is descended from the Luritja people of Central Australia". Let's leave that statement alone just now and have some discussion about its importance. My perspective is that it is important to state which Aboriginal people Mr Thomas belongs to - that he is, in Aboriginal phrasing, a Luritja man. Partly because each Aboriginal people is a sub-nation within Australia. And partly because ownership of the design may belong to that people within its own law - albeit that this traditional property interest may be necessarily represented through Mr Thomas individually in terms of Australian copyright law. --Wikiain (talk) 05:06, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's my understanding Harold Thomas holds the intellectual property rights to the flag exclusively as an invidual, not as part of a group. The only criticism I have with this inclusion is that it seems to focus too heavily on the semantics of the flag's designer when this is intended as an article on the flag itself. Again, granted it is relevant he is Aboriginal, maybe not so much which tribe(what is the correct vernacular here?) he is descended from. This information would make sense within Harold Thomas' own article. (Sir Harry Nessbit 06:14, 31 January 2013 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harry Nessbit (talk • contribs)

Mr Thomas holds copyright as an individual, in terms of copyright law of Australia. There are also forms of intellectual property recognised in Aboriginal laws, which may be collective. Thus Mr Thomas's royalties would be due to him individually under copyright law but might then be liable to be distributed among his people under traditional law (in Australia the term "tribe" is no longer commonly used in referring to Indigenous peoples). The same considerations govern permission to use the flag design. This law would be that observed by Luritja people, whether such law be specific to them or the law of a wider people to whom they belong. Mr Thomas's identity as a Luritja man is relevant in this way to the question of who owns the flag design, an important fact about the flag.--Wikiain (talk) 01:02, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I still feel the article in question is not the place for such information, however you appear to be better educated in this area than I so will defer to your suggestion and leave it as is. (Sir Harry Nessbit 04:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harry Nessbit (talk • contribs)

No worries, mate. (Though please sign your posts.) --Wikiain (talk) 05:24, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jerusalem Biblical Zoo

On 5 August 2012, 84user added the Aboriginal flag as displayed in the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo. On one level this might seen as just over-zealous. On another, it may suggest that Aborigines belong in a zoo. No doubt that is not why the flag is displayed in the zoo, but when it is taken out of that context and selected here rather than any other display of the flag, it seems to me to take on a different significance. So, remove? --Wikiain (talk) 21:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it's inappropriate, so I've replaced it with another photo which has more relevance. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 01:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! Well done. --Wikiain (talk) 02:52, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strewth. Who cares? Really. HiLo48 (talk) 02:57, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above 2 editors obviously care. That would be 100% of the participants in this discussion prior to you. -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 03:01, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, a 100% correct observation. Well done. HiLo48 (talk) 03:09, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You're extremely welcome. Any time. -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 03:20, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Change to opening sentence

Hi, I would suggest that the opening sentence of the article be changed to say that the flag represents Aboriginal Australians, not Indigenous Australians. Given that Indigenous Australians is a broad term meant to refer to Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islander people collectively, the current statement in the article is incorrect. Anyone think this change shouldn't be made? LizLou (talk) 23:23, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're right of course. Done it. Wikiain (talk) 01:39, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! LizLou (talk) 04:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Fair use rationale

"|image has rationale=yes" has been added. Wikiain (talk) 22:55, 18 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Proportions

This page was making contadictory claims of both a proportion of 3:5 (infobox) and the "width is 1.5 times its height" (introduction).

However flags for sale are all 1:2 (the same as the Flag of Australia)

This is also backed up by the World Flag Db.

I have taken the liberty of changing the text of the article but someone with a bit more experience may like to update the images. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelly F Thomas (talk • contribs) 12:41, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I simply changed the info box to say "3:5 or 1:2". I'm guessing that the original design or early versions may've been 3:5, and that the 1:2 is a lengthening to match the stature of the Australian civic national flag. You'll see variants of the Maori and Quebec flag for this reason as well. That's only a supposition though. In any case, "3:5 or 1:2" encompasses the contradictory info which is in the article! Traversetravis (talk) 15:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Good guessing, but I've researched the matter and amended accordingly. What proportions did Harold Thomas use? Errantius (talk) 22:02, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright resolution

This suggestion to resolve copyright issues could be worked into the article.[1] The report also provides useful background. HTH. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 07:22, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I added that report, which is all I've seen on the matter. I'd like more information before attempting discussion. Wikiain (talk) 21:54, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Allam, Lorena (12 June 2019). "Government could buy Aboriginal flag copyright to settle dispute, lawyer says". The Guardian. London, United Kingdom. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2019-06-12.

Birubi Art

@Bahudhara: Hello, when I removed the link, I wasn't referring to this Wikipedia article, but about the news report on Birubi Art having breached Australian consumer law. However, the news report does not mention anything about the art studio having produced the flag illegally, nor was the creator Thomas involved in ligitation against the studio itself either on behalf of his flag, or Aboriginal communities. I have reread the news article but I am still failing to find its relevance to the article about the flag here.

May I understand the point of your revert? Seloloving (talk) 17:27, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit summary was "The article does not mention anything about the Aboriginal Flag or its creator." (my emphasis), so I took it to mean the Wikipedia article, rather than the reference article cited, which I acknowledge doesn't specifically mention the Aboriginal Flag.
The preceding paragraph mentions that Birubi Art was licensed by Thomas "for the manufacture and marketing of the flag and of products featuring the flag's image", which is supported by a reference.
In this context it is appropriate to mention that Birubi Art was later convicted and fined for "selling thousands of pieces of fake Aboriginal art" (per the deleted ref). Bahudhara (talk) 00:53, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In this context, I acknowledge that I was referring to the news article here when removing the link. It is still my opinion that the sentence on the company's fine and liquidation is unnecessary, as it doesn't pertain directly to the copyright status of the flag, and nor was the company alleged to have misused it in their misconduct. But I will leave that up to your decision if the sentence should be further clarified or a better citation found. Seloloving (talk) 02:56, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a non-Aboriginal person not directly involved in Aboriginal issues, I have the impression that the copyright status and use of the flag, and fake Aboriginal art, are very sensitive issues that will continue to evolve over time, and that it would be best to leave that sentence in for now. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 04:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, for the same reasons. Errantius (talk) 04:37, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion says it was deleted, but it was not, and the page history has comment "flag is now free". I don't know what's true. Dicklyon (talk) 23:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 February 2024

– Per usage statistics in sources, these are not proper names. The first two appear in book stats only with lowercase flag. The red ensign used to be more capitalized, but never consistently so, and only about half the time in 21st century. See n-gram stats. Dicklyon (talk) 23:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Australia has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Classic example of overcapitalization. Killuminator (talk) 00:26, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Errantios and ScottDavis: It's not clear why you guys are objecting, citing MOS:INSTITUTIONS. See above where this notion appears to have been thoroughly rebutted. Do you still object, and if so can you state a reason? Dicklyon (talk) 10:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry not to reply earlier and I don't have time for an extensive reply. I'll just say that I read MOS:INSTITUTIONS as relating to how names are given and not to any particular kind of thing they are given to. I write "Australian Aboriginal Flag" and "Torres Strait Islander Flag" just as I write "Washington Monument" and not "Washington monument". Errantios (talk) 13:26, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. You do you. On WP we have a style guideline for such things. Dicklyon (talk) 21:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also sorry for a late reply. I do still object to lower-case 'f' for the Australian National Flag and Australian Red Ensign. I accept the rebuttal above for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags. I will stand aside to allow what is now clearly the consensus interpretation of the P&Gs for them all. Scott Davis Talk 05:23, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the move will happen. Then I suggest that the opening sentence should read: "The Australian Aboriginal flag (officially Australian Aboriginal Flag) ...". The later reference to legislation can be tweaked accordingly. Perhaps we should invite parallel discussion of "Torres Strait Islander Flag" and "Australian National Flag". Errantios (talk) 12:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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