This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Crew cut article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
For a previous VFD discussion on this article, see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Crew cut.
"The term was most likely coined to describe the haircut worn by members of the Yale rowing crew. The name drew a contrast with football players of the time, who wore long hair to compensate for flimsy leather helmets." What time period? And shouldn't this all be cited? 98.221.133.96 (talk) 13:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
1910-1920s. You are welcome. Ortolan88 (talk) 16:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC) Actually, 1890s, but you are still welcome. Ortolan88 (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
The link at the Yale Alumni Magazine article gives the time as the mid 1920's. The Riddell link is dead. However I managed to find the article. There is nothing in the article with regard to the sport of Crew or a contrast between Rower's haircuts and Football players haircuts. It was Princeton Football that purportedly started wearing long hair. In 1895 Yale Football players showed up with short hair cuts which of course could not have been called Crew Cuts since the name wasn't coined for another three decades.BB Sean M (talk) 19:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
The name appears to have come into use in the ivy league in the late 1890's to early 1900's. It is only the name that is unique to that era, not the hairstyle itself which dates back several hundred years. History section expanded with citations added. MiltonPB (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
isn't that a butch hair cut? it looks extremely short to me... 70.48.118.140 20:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
It's actually a Recon Haircut as the hair is shaved completely off the back and sides and with the shaved area extending on to the crown. There is no transition tapering between skin and hair. A very extreme haircut even for Marines. It would be ridiculous enough to have a Photo of a Hn'T Crew Cut as Representative of a Crew Cut since a Hn' T Crew Cut is an extreme variant that has been worn by very few guys who wear Crew Cuts both at present and from a historical perspective, but having a photo of a Recon is just spreading misinformation. For example here is a public photo of the Back and Side of a Marine wearing a Hn'T Crew Cut( The Marine on the far left.):
BB Sean M (talk) 19:31, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
== butc
Butch (haircut) links to lesbian page. I've removed the sentence since it contributes nothing to the article--all it does is suggest a synonym. 24.63.170.16 16:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Butch Cut is not a synonym for Crew Cut. Crew cut is a 20th century American English name for a Short Pompadour or Short Pomp Haircut. There were two varieties of Short Pomps. The Round Top which acquired the name Crew Cut and the Brush Top which acquired the 20th Century American English name Flat Top. A Brush Top Short Pomp was also know as a Short Cut with a Brush Top Effect. A Short Pomp was also know as a Brush Cut. So Short Pomp = Brush Cut = Crew haircut = Crew Cut and Flat Top Crew Cut or later Flat Top. And Short Brush Cut = Butch Haircut = Butch Cut = Butch. The difference between a Crew Cut and a Butch is in the design of the top. The back and sides are largely cut the same. The top of a Crew cut is graduated in length from the longest hair at the front hairline to the shortest at the back of the crown. The effect is that when viewed from the front a Crew Cut has a slight curve from side to side. When the head is viewed in side profile the outline of a Crew Cut approaches the horizontal. The graduation of length is in accord to the desired length at the front hairline and the degree of slope of the skull to the front hairline and the desired length at the back of the crown. Whatever it takes to approach a horizontal appearance when viewed in side profile and with the hair combed back up off the forehead and standing on end in the short pompadour style. A typical Ivy League Style Crew cut might be 1.5" at the Front hairline and 0.5" at the back of the crown. Butch Wax is used to groom Butch Cuts, Crew Cuts and Flat Tops.
Butch was and still is used to describe very masculine boys and often and to a certain extent still is a nickname given to such boys. It is less used now for boys and for a while fell out of use to describe butch haircuts because of the words recent use to describe a certain type of lesbian BB Sean M (talk) 20:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
The haircut names were apparently used interchangeably in colloquial conversation among friends but were also generally used by customers to describe the haircuts the names specifically referred to. Those are the same names that were used to describe the haircuts on the standard haircutting charts that were on the walls of many Barber Shops of that era. The chart seen on the wall of Floyd's Barber Shop in the Andy Griffith show was the most popular. The other popular chart was the "Modern Haircutting Chart," the one seen on the back wall of the Concrete Barber Shop in the movie "Boy's Life."
Both charts depict a Crew Cut, Ivy League, Butch and Flat Top. The Floyd's Chart's Flat Top with Fenders is essentially a Flat Top Boogie on the "Modern Haircutting Chart."
At the same time it should be recognized that the short haircut represented by the word Crew Cut was at first popular in the Ivy League and at eastern prep schools. References to the word in the 1920's, 1930's and 1940's usually are linked with something to do with an Ivy League University, Student, Alumnus, Professor or Style.
For instance:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,763809,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,804905,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,890994,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,943335,00.html
http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/02_04/old_yale.html
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/1168
Among the general population, Crew cut probably did not come into widespread usage till the 1950's when the style became popular among a wider segment of the population. Flat Top was first Flat Top Crew Cut to distinguish the type of Crew Cut with a Flat Top from the version with a Round Top which accounts for Crew Cuts and Flat Tops both being referred to as Crew Cuts in general conversation of that era. It was a later convention in that era to refer to a Flat Top Crew Cut as a Flat Top rather than a Crew Cut. Some may have referred to a Crew Cut as a Butch in conversation among friends but I doubt a guy would say he wanted a Butch to a Barber unless he indeed did want a Butch Cut rather than a Crew Cut or Flat Top. Butch and GI cut are often seen used interchangeably and were likely synonyms of that era.
One very popular Barbering text in a completely revised 1967 edition states that many barbers refer to a Crew Cut as a Short Pompadour or a Brush Cut. This text was originally published in 1938. I have a 1959 reprint of the 1938 edition and no where in it are the words Crew Cut, Flat Top or Butch Cut found. Instead Short Pompadour, Brush Top Short Pompadour, Round Top Short Pompadour, Short Cut with a Pompadour effect, and Short Cut with hair following the natural shape of the head. Another very popular barbering text that had also been published since the late 1930's in a 1971 reprint of the 8th edition, 1969, states that until a few years ago crew cut was used synonymously with short pompadour or brush cut. This text gives Short Brush Cut as an alternative name for a Butch Cut. In the College and High School Yearbooks I have seen from the 1950's and 1960's, I have not yet come upon one that has more than a handful of photos of guys with Butch Cuts. Flat Tops, Crew Cuts and Ivy Leagues each far outnumber the Butches.BB Sean M (talk) 02:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
I propose replacing the photo of a Marine who is obviously not wearing a crew cut but an extreme Recon haircut with a Wikipedia Commons photo of a Crew cut Naval Academy Plebe participating in the Herndon Climb. It is a short crew cut, approximately 8/10" at the center of the front hairline with the hair on top graduated shorter in length, to about 3/8", at the back of the crown and the sides tapered down to around 1/4" at the top of the ears. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_030519-N-5319A-003_A_United_States_Naval_Academy_freshman_%28Plebe%29_climbs_.jpg This photo offers a much better representation of a crew cut to anyone viewing this page. MiltonPB (talk) 16:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC) MiltonPB (talk) 16:16, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Since no one has stated an opinion on replacing the photo I am going to replace it. It makes no sense for 10,000-15,000 people per month to come to this page and see a photo of a recon haircut represented as a crew cut. That is spreading misinformation. I looked for a photo on the same theme. It is a photo of a Crew Cut Marine Lieutenant crossing the finish line in first place at the All Marine Cross Country Championship this past January. His crew cut is approximately 1.25" at the center of the front hair line graduated in length to 3/8" at the back of the crown. Mid to upper sides cut at 1/4"; lower sides and short sideburns cut at 3/32". Edge at the nape tapered to the skin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crew_Cut_Marine_Lieutenant_wins_All-Marine_Cross_Country_Championship.jpg MiltonPB (talk) 08:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC) MiltonPB (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Several high resoluton images added. Jack Kerouac wearing a short crew cut, circa 1943. Michigan Baseball 1953 with members wearing a variety of crew cuts. Thirteen year old Ricky Nelson wearing a longish crew cut. High resolution side profile photo is now placed directly below the photo that shows the front view of the same person. MiltonPB (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
A few of the more common alternate English language names for a Crew Cut. Most are for a Long Crew Cut. Ivy League which is short for Ivy League Crew cut. Also Princeton and Princeton Cut, Standard Crew Cut, Classic Crew Cut, French Crop, Olympic Cut and Harvard Clip. In addition Short Pompadour, Short Pomp, Round Top Short Pomp and Brush Cut are as has already been discussed, names that have been used far longer than Crew Cut to describe the style.BB Sean M (talk) 19:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Short pompadour, round top and brush top discussed in history section. Edited to clarify the difference between a crew cut and a butch and that any crew cut can be referred to as a buzz cut. Variations section re-integrated into first paragraph. It is germane to understanding the style and not an explanation of the variants, each of which has an entry. MiltonPB (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
The Crew Cut may have been worn by certain members of the United Sates Armed Forces during WWII but stating the Crew Cut was adopted implies that there was some sort of order or decree that Crew Cuts had to be worn by all male members of the armed forces.
A short butch cut was the typical United States armed forces induction cut during WWII, referred to at the time as a GI cut but was that required after training was completed?
Also the wearing of a butch haircut was not unique to the United States armed forces during WWII. The practice started during WWI with the British, as a means to combat insect spread diseases such as trench fever, which is spread by lice. However, Trench Fever is spread by body lice not head lice. Head lice are not known to spread disease. BB Sean M (talk) 18:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
The WWII induction cut style appears to have been a crew cut and rather than a butch . The current very short butch induction cut style seems to be relatively recent. MiltonPB (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
In 1964, and 1965 the left and the new left were by and large not wearing long hair. In many of the photos of the FSM at Berkeley, guys are seen wearing short taper cuts, Ivy League Crew Cuts, and Flat Top Crew Cuts along with a coat and tie. Almost no one is wearing long hair. The Left and New Left at the time eschewed the Beatnik and Hippy Fashions. It was later, beginning in 1966 when the hippy fashions started to creep into the New Left. Equating wearing a Crew Cut with conservative political views in the mid 1960's is not exactly accurate. This is more true from 1969 on, after Nixon became President. It is more appropriate with regard to the mid 1960's to indicate that long hair was becoming a symbol, of protest against conscription to fight an unpopular foreign war escalated by a liberal President with the backing of a liberal Congress. Long hair also was becoming a symbol of one's approval or adherence to the new social conventions such as the use of psychedelic drugs, free love and lack of respect for private property and authority of all types. By 1969 a Crew Cut tended to indicate more traditional social views of either the Crew cut wearer or the person dictating the Crew Cut the individual wore.BB Sean M (talk) 19:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Crew cuts, Flat Tops, Ivy Leagues and Butches have all been referred to as Buzz Cuts . The untapered often self cut pseudo Butch haircuts of the late 90's often referred to as a Buzz Cut are only similar to a Crew cut in that both are short haircuts. Beyond that there is almost no similarity. The back and sides and especially top are of entirely different design. A Crew Cut is a highly stylized all over Taper cut and takes skill to cut. Guiding guarded clippers over ones skull to produce a late 90's Buzz Cut takes almost no skill and produces a cut that instead of being tapered to varying lengths from the edge of the hairline at the nape and around the ear arches to the longest hair at the front hairline of a Crew Cut, is of uniform length all over the head. There is no tapering at all.
In addition, Flat Top Crew Cuts had a bout of mild popularity from the early to mid 1980's till about the late 1990's to early years of the new millennium, when the so called Buzz Cut became the popular short haircut.BB Sean M (talk) 19:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Now indicates that any crew cut can be referred to as a buzz cut. MiltonPB (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Human scalp hair grows on average about 0.5" per month. The following is premised on an average rate of scalp hair growth.
The hair on the top of a Crew Cut and Flat Top Crew Cut is graduated in length. In most cases, the hair on the top of a Butch haircut is of uniform length. Therefore the top of a Crew Cut and Flat Top Crew Cut must be cut clipper over comb, shears over comb, freehand with clippers, clipper over finger(crew cut only), or shears over finger(crew cut only.) The middle sections of the back and sides and the edge are often cut with the aid of clipper guards, detachable blades that cut a specific length, or adjustable taper or fade clippers. In contrast, not only the edge, back and sides; but also the top of a Butch haircut may be cut with the teeth of the guard or clipper blade in direct contact with the scalp.
Most Clipper Guards are numbered in eighths of an inch. The number of the guard denoting the # of week's hairgrowth left on the scalp when a clipper with a certain numbered guard is guided over the head with the guard in contact with the scalp:
A #1 Guard leaves one week's hairgrowth or 1/8" = 3mm of hair growth on the scalp.
A #2 Guard leaves two week's hair growth or 2/8" = 6.3mm hairgrowth on the scalp and so on.
Rotary clippers have blades that readily snap on and off. Blades are available that leave from 2.5 hour's to 6 week's hair growth on the scalp when the Clipper is guided over the head with the teeth of the clipper blade in contact with the scalp. Blades are named differently than guards.
Fine cutting Blades (Also referred to as Zero Blades):
a #0000000 blade leaves 2.5 hour's hair growth, 1/500" = 0.05mm of hair on the scalp.
a #000000 blade leaves 5 hour's hair growth, 1/250" = 0.1mm of hair on the scalp.
a #00000 blade leaves 10 hour's hair growth, 1/125" = 0.2mm of hair on the scalp.
a #0000 blade leaves 15 hour's hair growth, 1/100" = 0.3mm of hair on the scalp.
a #0000A blade leaves 20 hour's hair growth, 1/75" = 0.4mm of hair on the scalp.
a #000 blade leaves one day's hair growth, 1/50" = 0.5mm of hair on the scalp.
a #00 blade leaves a day and a half's hair growth, 1/30"= 0.8mm of hair on the scalp.
a #0 blade leaves two day's hair growth, 1/25" = 1mm of hair on the scalp.
an #0A blade leaves 2.5 day's hair growth, 3/64" = 1.2mm of hair on the scalp.
Coarse cutting blades, #1, #1A, #1.5:
a #1 Blade leaves 5 day's hair growth, 3/32" = 2.4mm of hair on the scalp.
a #1A blade leaves one week's hair growth, 1/8" = 3.2mm of hair on the scalp.
a #1.5 blade leaves 9 day's hair growth, 5/32" = 4.0mm of hair on the scalp.
Very Coarse cutting blades, #2, #3.5 and #3.75:
a #2 blade leaves two week's hair growth, 1/4" = 6mm of hair on the scalp.
a #3.5 blade leaves three week's hair growth, 3/8" = 10 mm of hair on the scalp.
a #3.75 blade leaves one four week's hair growth, 1/2" = 13mm hair on the scalp.
Longer cutting blades:
a 5/8 H/T leaves five week's hair growth, 5/8" = 16 mm hair on the scalp.
a 3/4 H/T leaves six week's hair growth, 3/4" = 19 mm hair on the scalp.
Specialty Blades:
In addition there are a number of skip tooth or thinning blades that only cut a number of the hairs that pass through their teeth to a selected length and leave the rest of the hair uncut. Several manufacturers make a blade that is wider than the clipper head to facilitate cutting the deck of a Flat Top Crew Cut.
Taper Clippers:
Taper clippers are powered by a linear or pivot motor rather than a rotary motor. The blades are not readily interchangeable on Taper clippers. Taper clippers have an adjustable lever that sets the cutting length within a certain range usually from #000 blade length = 1/50" = 0.5 mm on the short side to #1 length = 3/32" = 2.4 mm on the long side. For longer lengths clipper guards are attached. The Guard will cut at the numbered guard length when the taper lever is in the shortest cutting position.
Fade Clippers:
Fade clippers are identical to Taper Clippers with the exception of the range of the cutting lengths. Most Fade clippers cut between #00000 blade length = 1/125" = 0.2 mm on the short side to #000 blade length = 1/50" = 0.5 mm on the long side. As with regular taper clippers, clipper guards can be attached for longer cutting lengths.BB Sean M (talk) 01:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
This article concerns the haircut known as a Crew Cut in English. The name was coined in the United States in the 1920's to describe what up to the time and still can be referred to as a Short Pompadour or Short Pomp haircut, or Brush cut. Short Pomps were worn by members of Ivy League College Crew Teams. Hence the names Crew cut and Ivy League. More specifically Crew cut describes the round top short pomp haircut. The brush top short pomp acquired the American English name Flat Top Crew Cut and later Flat Top. Crew cuts and Flat Top Crew cuts had been worn for hundreds of years before being known by these names. A Crew cut and a Flat Top Crew Cut are known by other names in other Languages. Regardless of the names, the haircuts are the same. There is no world view. If that were the case then every article in Wikipedia would have to be translated into every language for there to be a world view. By what name is a Crew cut known in Chinese? As one could see in the recent Olympic coverage, Crew cuts were worn by certain Chinese athletes but I doubt they use the word Crew cut to describe the style. Since a significant percent of the world's population speaks Chinese, can one say the article does not have a world view unless it includes the Chinese name for a Crew cut? There may be people in certain countries who misapply the name Crew cut to short haircuts that truly aren't Crew cuts but then there are those in the United States who do the same. In particular there are those who misapply the name Crew cut to a Butch or Short Brush Cut. The difference is in the design of the top. A Crew cut is graduated in length on top in accord to the slope of the skull to the front hairline, so that the outline of the haircut approaches the horizontal when the head is viewed in side profile. From side to side a Crew cut rounds to varying degrees with the skull. A Butch or Short Brush Cut conforms to the skull shape in side profile and in most cases is of uniform length on Top. If there is any graduation of length with a Butch or Short Brush cut it is relatively minor in comparison to a Crew cut. A Crew Cut typically has about a 300% proportional gain in length from the back of the crown to the longest hair at the front hairline. A Butch or Short Brush cutthat is graduated in length on Top might have up to a 50% proportional change in length from the Back of the crown to the front hairline. In addition a Butch or Short Brush Cut that is uniform in length across the Top might also have a bit of quickly graduated longer hair that arises just immediately before the front hairline. For a few Butch or Short Brush Cuts Cuts and Crew cuts there is a gray area of what is a Butch or Short Brush Cut and what is a Crew cut but for most Crew cuts and Butch Cuts it is evident if the haircut is a Crew cut or a Butch. As far as the the Image, it looks more like a Recon haircut than a Crew Cut. It isn't a good representation of a Crew Cut in the United States. This is discussed above.BB Sean M (talk) 15:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Added that a crew cut is known by other names in other languages such as coupe en brosse and bürstenschnitt. MiltonPB (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
The definition of a Crew Cut in the 1st paragraph is paraphrased from the most widely used English Language Barbering texts of the 20th century: L.S. Trusty, The Art and Science of Barbering, 8th ed, 1969, 1971 Reprint, pg 107-113. S.C. Thorpe, Practice and Science of Standard Barbering, 1967, pg 129 - 135. BB Sean M (talk) 02:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
We need a photo of just someone’s head so we can really see the haircut in the photo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.140.18 (talk) 18:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Replaced a fairly low resolution head shot photo, allegedly a Soldier with a Crew Cut, with a high resolution side profile photo of a crew cut with a semi short taper on the back and sides. The prior head shot photo is a Marine rather than a Soldier but more importantly the hairstyle is not exactly a crew cut. It appears to be a very short faux hawk on quite curly hair, though it is hard to say for sure due to the low resolution. Added a fairly high resolution photo of football(soccer)star Lukas Podolski wearing a rather short crew cut, about 3/4" at the front hairline. The final photo added gives a frontal view of the new side profile head shot photo. MiltonPB (talk) 04:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Replaced photo of Marine with with an undetermined haircut for reasons stated above. MiltonPB (talk) 20:28, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Could we trim back some of the photos? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:55, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! MiltonPB (talk) 00:04, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! MiltonPB (talk) 00:04, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
That is all a huge wall of text and was WP:TLDR. I will remove some images per convention and guidelines. The article is totally and obviously overloaded with images. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:36, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
The post above is way too long for most to read.
To get input from others, I am asking for opinions on these two versions:
Please say which is closer to being appropriate. (See also: Regular haircut, where there may also be image overloading.) Many thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Since January 2015 there have apparently been fifteen images while there were prior to January 2014 fourteen. The pre January 2014 edition that was purportedly overloaded with images had images of crew cuts. Some of the current images are not exactly crew cuts: Curtained crew cut, Ricky Martin, Macklemore and David Beckham are all undercuts. Adam Levine is a faux hawk. Airman with a recon is by its name not a crew cut but a recon. John Cena is a butch with a slight bumper. Ben Affleck is a short forward brush. Tapered crew cut is a regular haircut short on top with a short taper on the back/sides. The lead photo might be called a crew cut by someone using the term to mean any very short guy's style but is not a prototypical crew cut and not appropriate for the lead.
The Styling section appears to be a combination of the short and semi-short taper sections of the regular haircut article with elements of the pre Jan 2015 history section of this article. Other elements of this article's history section have been split off into an etymology section.
Have edited the Styling section and edited/combined the Etymology/History sections. Added photos/descriptions of crew cuts. MiltonPB (talk) 16:05, 12 May 2016 (UTC)