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Why no talk? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.76.0.33 (talk) 14:34, 13 December 2004 (UTC)
I've removed most of this: James Ellington, Duke's grandfather, was sent from the low country of South Carolina to Lincoln County ,North Carolina in 1863. He was a hired out slave and worked at the Stonewall Furnace under, James Madison Smith. After the Civil War , James returned to SC and moved his family to Lincoln County. He and his wife, Emma were farmers.John Ellington, Dukes uncle was a school teacher. He married Hannah McDaniel . Daniel Rudisell married James Ellington's oldest daughter. During the economic hard times of the 1880's , it wad Daniel Rudisill who moved the family to Washington, DC. James had received a back injury and was confined to a wheelchair. Daniel and his wife took care of him, after John Ellington died and Hannah needed help as James Ellington's caregiver. The information of the Ellington family in North Carolina was provided by Mary Dellinger .a genealogist at the Lincoln County library .
While it's relevant, it's also confused. It's not clear what the relevance of John Ellington is, or why Daniel Rudisill/Rudisell would have moved his father-in-law to Washington. It would be good to have some information about Ellington's direct ancestry, but properly referenced and consistent information.
Wikipedia style for sub-headings is not to capitalise any word other than the first one, by the way. -- ajn (talk) 09:15, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
It is a sad day in America when our greatest composer is not fully recognized and given crap articles like this on Wikipedia. TheKid 04:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
yeah i took off the copyedit tag because i couldnt find any illwording, but if there happens to be some, please inform me. cheers, --zachjones4 19:37, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
the article doesn't even mention swing! what's up with that?!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.208.238 (talk) 06:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
So I have a two part question here. I have quite a bit of information on Ellington from a Primary Source. My mother, Jane Coyne toured with Duke during the end of his life, and later Mercer. I have quite a few candid pictures, as well as stories about his life, but have no way to cite. I don't consider this Original Research really, but I don't know where to place it. Suggestions?
In particular, one story related to me by my mother was regarding Ellington's Racial politics. While he had a lifetime of experience with discrimination and racial politics in the states, and used his heritage as a major source of inspiration, and as a method of celebrating black culture, he did not want to be known as a "colored/black musician". The specific anecdote was about a young black reporter, working for a black publication (like jet or ebony, but I don't know specifically which publication, or if it is still around) who wanted to interview him as "the worlds best black composer". Ellington refused, saying he had worked his whole life to be judged by his talent and music, and not the color of his skin. He would be happy to give an interview to the reporter, but only for a mainstream publication, and only as a composer, not as a black composer.
Any way to include that? I think it gives some good insight into Ellington's personality, and viewpoint on race, but it is not verifiable.
Gaijin42 16:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I added 'Cat' Anderson as one of the other members of "biggest names in jazz". His ability to hit a triple C on the trumpet puts him in with the greats of jazz. lilbrocool — Preceding undated comment added 14:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
And the masterpiece Duke composed with him in mind "Concerto for Cootie". Words were added later and the song became "Do nothing till you hear from me" and was recorded by Billie Holiday among others. SmokeyTheFatCat 11:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I've decided to append an NPOV note (and I expect to be flamed for that) because I consider the tone of the article in the introduction to be overly praising. Especially the sentence: "Musically, he wore many hats, and he could never settle on just one." made me feel I was reading an Ellington album's booklet, not an encyclopedia article. Please reword this section. Tero 00:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
What does this message above the article mean please? I can see nothing wrong with this article. SmokeyTheFatCat 09:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a good deal of (presumably) vandalism in this. I dont have time nor do I know how to clean it up, just letting people know. For example a bizarre comment on pants in the beginning, and citing Duke as having associated with many of the "worst" names in Jazz. Subtle vandalism. Just an FYI. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.233.57.18 (talk • contribs) 23:59, 17 January 2007.
I've tried to improve the passage in "Early career", though it is not satisfactory. It needs to be included early in the article, but as it stands it makes the article drag, and slows the narrative. Should we discuss the individual characteristics of players in the main body, or in a separate section, as is a common WP practice? The majority of readers may have only a vague idea of what made Ellington special, so a new section is not really a solution either perhaps. Philip Cross 17:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.dukeellington.com/ seemingly has expired (or been hacked?) 80.109.76.27 11:13, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
We need to have more information on Duke we need to know about his Volunteer and Work experiences we need to know more about him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.11.120.198 (talk) 13:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
Duke Ellington was a professional -- he did not do "Volunteer" work. And his "Work experience" is his life.Owen (talk) 01:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen
Could we get a sample of his music up somehow? Zerath13 All his music is under copyright 198.30.138.91 (talk) 02:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen
Am surprised to see so little on such a great inspiration to 20th Century music and musicians. The article seems to have been tidied up since some of the comments I've read here were made, and IMHO reads nicely, but I had expected some more info about his compositions and band line-ups. 83.180.179.143 22:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC) ps. I think the anecdote of his turning down an interview for a black magazine - which I had in fact heard before - fits in perfectly on this talk page for those of us who are interested in knowing more abt the subject at hand. Other articles on pop stars have far more trivial details (for want of a better expression) and even have a trivia sub-section, so please add more!
Ellington expressed his views on race in many interviews ,but seldom in print. If I can find a recorded interview that we can credit, I'll add the information. Owen (talk)Ofindsen — Preceding undated comment added 03:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
For those who didn't know, Ellington's music has all officially become a national treasure (as declared by the U. S. treasury in October of 2006. I think this should be added. Can you confirm this, with citation? Owen (talk) 03:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen
See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted changes made by CaptainSam because they deleted some of the previously vetted and mature article material and because they arrived with no references. This new take on the band needs to be reinforced by published opinion. Please cite the source. Binksternet (talk) 02:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm desperately trying to find the full version of this song. Any help? I'm not looking for the short version on Amazon. I'll pay whatever. 24.98.199.162 (talk) 07:21, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Brooks Kerr recorded Soda Fountain Rag in 1975, accompanied by Sonny Greer and produced by Stanley Dance, with notes by Dan Morgenstern. It may be the most authentic version you can find. I have the LP and have converted it to MP3. Owen (talk) 15:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Please please, I'll take it. Write me on my user page. BowChickaNeowNeow (talk) 01:31, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Should article be locked or something?LinoPop (talk) 03:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Protecting against "new editors" would not be courteous or wise. As it stands, the article, is wordy, rambling and not entirely accurate. Owen198.30.138.10 (talk) 00:03, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is this picture of Duke not in the article? http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/260px-Duke_Ellington_hat.jpg I think it is his most famous and recognizable photo. --Jim Raynor (talk) 00:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
That is because content that violates copyright can not be used. --Owen (talk) 02:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
The current photo is ridiculous and should be deleted if nothing else can be found. -JP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.139.11 (talk) 19:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The Detroit Free Press today published two really good articles on the movie, the 50th anniversary festivities, and the musical score.
hey my name is lea and i kida like husky dogs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.40.115.249 (talk) 01:08, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
There have been a very large number of musicians that have come and gone via this organization, not excluding the bandleaders (however related to Duke himself).
There should be, for clarity sake, a separate page for the Orchestra. Tlshd (talk) 08:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
My handle is ellingtonrecords and I have made some major corrections on this page plus some additions. I consider myself a world class expert on Duke Ellington and the Ellington Orchestra. I wrote this paragraph:
"There are hundreds of albums dedicated to the music of Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn by artists famous and obscure. The more notable artists include Sonny Stitt, Thelonious Monk, Dizzy Gillespie, Tony Bennett, Claude Bolling, Oscar Peterson, Toshiko Akiyoshi, Dick Hyman, Joe Pass, Milt Jackson, Earl Hines, André Previn, World Saxophone Quartet, Ben Webster, Zoot Sims, Kenny Burrell, Lambert, Hendricks and Ross, Martial Solal, Clark Terry and Randy Weston."
I only included realtively famous people that have recorded Ellington and Ellington and Strayhorn tribue albums. What I live in dread of is someone starting and exacting list of these albums. There are well over 300 such albums, most by artists you have never heard of or will never hear from again. I believe that my broad stroke would be sufficient for Wikipedia.
--Ellingtonrecords (talk) 14:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I think that Duke Ellington smoking is a good portrayal of him... but can we get another picture or something? --RayqayzaDialgaWeird2210 18:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
It's a great picture. I've seen many, and this one is good. Remember the time in which he lived. Keep it. Tlshd (talk) 07:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
However bad you may think the photo is, it is within total character of the man. He was a life long smoker and died of lung cancer. --Ellingtonrecords (talk) 13:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello all: I fixed the information on the quarter by adding a few refs. I have also fixed this line: The coin is part of the U.S. Mint's 50 State Quarters Program. This is incorrect. The quarter is part of a different program. The US Mint says on their page: [2] The 2009 District of Columbia and U.S. Territories Quarters Program is a one-year initiative to honor the District of Columbia and the five U.S. Territories [..] This program immediately follows the 50 State Quarters® Program, which ended in 2008.. Also see the bill that authorized the quarter: [3]. It does not mention the coin as a contuenation of the state quarters. In any case, this is an issue of semantics. It should not degrade the honor Ellington deserves. - Thanks, Hoshie 03:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I like the changes. Good work. However, the description of the quarter itself seems appropriate. What was your reason to take it out?--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 06:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I just entered the reference works on the page. If you don't like the descriptions fine. Do not delete the DESOR entry. It is considered one of the ultimate reference works in the Ellington community.
--Ellingtonrecords (talk) 23:32, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
There is very little here on critical and scholarly reception of his work, and some of what little there is lacks citation. For what it's worth, Gary Giddins, "How Come Jazz Isn't Dead", p. 39–55 in Eric Weisbard, ed., This is Pop, Harvard University Press, 2004. ISBN 0-674-01321-2 (cloth), ISBN 0-674-01344-1 (paper) cites an interesting negative remark by Rudi Blesh, a minority view but one that should probably be represented; the relevant passage is on p. 42 of the cited work, and an endnote cites "Rudi Blesh, Shining Trumpets: A History of Jazz (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1958 [1946])". Giddins cites Blesh as writing that "Printed scores are not part of jazz" (quotation from Blesh) and holding the view that "Ellington's 'tea dansant music' had no jazz content whatsoever" (quotation from Giddins on Blesh's view; the phrase "tea dansant music" is Blesh's). - Jmabel | Talk 18:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Rudi Blesh believed that the only jazz was totally improvised Dixieland jazz, which he did not know was written down. If you agree with him, 99% of all musicians that other more recent authorities note, are not jazz either. And Ellington never called it jazz, by the way -- he called it "American music." Owen (talk) 01:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen
I would encourage Jmabel to choose a spot in the article that is "uncritical" and to insert a footnote there that cites Blesh and Weisbard and some of the discussion from his paragraph above. The listing of the Weisbard book in the Ellington bibliography seems inappropriate (because it is only tangentially connected with Ellington), but the footnote discussion and citation could inject Jmabel's concern into the article without cluttering the Bibliography. Then he could delete it from the Bibliography. - Schubert1797 (talk) 04:09, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
I have consolidated the previous References and Further Reading into a single Bibliography. There was considerable redundancy between them. I have deleted the broken link to Mercer Ellington's "Fast Facts." Even if this link were functioning, I believe it would be better placed as an External Link.
I have also made the Reference Works a subsection of the Bibliography section. Schubert1797 (talk) 03:58, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
hey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.224.179.49 (talk) 18:02, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
The passage on Ellington's marriage in 'Early career' contained a contradiction from the two sources as to when they were together in New York and split up. Other (weak) online sources suggest the Gibbs article is correct, so I retained that detail, but rewrote it because there was an unacknowledged direct quote from the article. Philip Cross (talk) 09:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
"In 1950 another emerging musical trend, the African-American popular music style known as Rhythm and Blues driven by a new generation of composers and musicians like Fats Domino and Jelly Roll Morton"
- I think that would be news to Morton (died 1941)!
Henrywgc (talk) 18:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Over the last day, the following passage has been added to the article on several occasions:
Aura Rully certainly exists (a grand total of 463 hits on Google), but I have deleted the passage on the grounds that everyone apparently associated with Ellington cannot be included, the obvious formatting problems and the use of Peacock words. Philip Cross (talk) 17:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
So, if you are concerned with Duke Ellington subject, i have to say you, that it`s not 100% complete...Why? Because after 1972 when you say D.E., you have to say Duke Ellington Orchestra and Aura Rully. Aura was her singer, and in every Ellington`s concert, Mood Indigo and a lot of well known songs where interpreted by Aura. Duke Ellington used to present Aura, as "Aura from Romania" and he launched her in 1972 in Newport Jazz Festival - Carnegie Hall, where she whon applause for 18 minutes and accolades as it follows : Aura's dazzling voice lends pops excitement John Kraglund - " There was nothing unexpected in the orchestral portion of last night's Toronto Symphony concert at Ontario Place. This was as it should be with Erich Kunzel on the podium and about 5,000 of his fans in attendance to hear his vigorous interpretations of pops concert standards (or standardized arrangements of non-standards). For those who are not symphony pop fans there was more excitement in much of the music by soprano soloist Aura, whose repertoire ranged from jazz to vocalized arrangements of instrumental classics, plus showtunes and disco numbers. Aura, a 33-year-old Romanian-born singer (daughter of the then concertmaster of the Bucharest Symphony) who now makes her home in Toronto as the wife of drummer Ron Rully, is better known in Europe and the United States than locally. According to report, her vocal range outstrips those of Sarah Vaughn and Cleo Laine -- extending to a B flat above Miss Laine's G above high C. After the sounds emanating from the Forum, last night, I am prepared to believe it. More important, there was admirable musicianship in her use of the voice, which has a clarity and richness that even the Forum loudspeakers could not distort.
The most agreeable evidence of her versatility was provided by a wordless arrangement of the Air from Bach's Suite No. 3, although its contrast between contralto and high soprano ranges was less dazzling than the bob version, also wordless, of Paganini's Caprice No. 24. The brooding intensity of B. Hughes' Special Way (title song of Aura's new record album) made it easy to understand why she had been favored by Duke Ellington as an interpreter of his songs.
Among the other assets of her performances were the full-throated shouting of Styne's People, from Funny Girl, and the Ighner/Wonder Everything Must Change."
Downbeat Magazine - "Aura floats the voice, almost ethereal on perfect pitch"
Coda Magazine - John Norris - "The stunning voice of Aura, whose incredible range is matched by her taste, imagination and tone control."
Toronto Star - "Aura, a voice with clarity, richness and admirable musicianship"
New York Times - Harry Stathos - "Aura, a beautiful, talented singer. Has a voice with incredible range that makes it sound more like a musical instrument, rather than notes coming out of the vocal chords." - John S. Wilson - "Aura made as dramatic and sensational a Carnegie Hall debut as even the fevered mind of an old time Hollywood script writer could imagine… Dancing across the notes way up on the threshold of the limits of hearing, ending with a high note flourish that brought the packed house to its feet and cheering!"
Canadian Composer - Richard Fohil - "Stunning singing!"
Star Week - "Aura, an original!"
The Great American Popular Singers - Henry Pleasants - "I have heard Aura sing up to the high B flat, above Cleo Laine's High G"
The Grove International Encyclopedia of Jazz - Nat Hentoff -"A phenomenal singer…"
The New Yorker - "Aura, a remarkable and beautiful soprano, Outstanding Singing."
Has been launched by George Wein also and she earned a contract with Duke Ellington since 1972 until now(with his agency).
For your interests, about Aura Rully, Aura has one of the most brilliant, expressive and improvisational voices of our time. Her interpretations of the masterful writings of the Jazz classics and original material reflect a new freshness in vocal artistry.
As a singing phenomenon, her career encompasses every possible direction, from Pop to Folklore and from Classical to Jazz, which includes concerts, television shows promotional jingles and recordings.
She has won accolades and prizes such as the prestigious Europe Cup. The European Press Prize and superlative reviews in the New York Times, Downbeat Magazine, Toronto Life and The New Yorker for her concert, records, and television appearances.
Aura has toured with world giants such as Quincy Jones, Duke Ellinton, Thad Jones, and Mel Lewis. Her appearances include such prestigious venues as the Newport Jazz Festival, Village Vanguard, and Carnegie Hall. From Tokyo to Toronto, Sydney to Stockholm, New York to Nice. Aura thrills her audiences who enjoy her within the Jazz Trio setting to The Symphony Orchestra.
So Duke Ellington for 2 years was glued with Aura, than he passed away....so, I ask you: Can you avoid this subject, about Duke`s option?........ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Honest2010 (talk • contribs) 21:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Duke Ellington Orchestra in Bucharest feat Aura, April 23, 2010. HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APisU5QIwGo —Preceding unsigned comment added by Honest2010 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Could someone who knows about Ellington's life add something about his long-term relationships (and a general note about his numerous short-term ones)? We wouldn't need much - this isn't a gossip paper - but I think it would be reasonable to add some material on his relationships with women, for completeness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notreallydavid (talk • contribs) 01:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
In the Work in films and the theater section it says that Symphony in Black won the Academy Award for best musical short. I cannot find any external reference to this. (Jphn37 (talk) 13:01, 11 November 2011 (UTC))
I changed the official website to www.dukeellington.com because, well because it's the official website. Asav (talk) 04:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Duke Ellington at Library of Congress, with 1653 library catalog records —now one of the External links— gives several "Variant(s)" for Ellington's name including Joe Turner, Sonny Greer, and Obie Duke. It also notes "Joe Turner and his Memphis Men, Sonny Greer and his Memphis Men; both names are pseudonyms for Duke Ellington and his orchestra"—citing Sutton, Allan. Pseudonyms on American records (1892-1942), 2004: p 305.
Drummer Sonny Greer is prominent in the article but never in the pseudonym context. 'Joe Turner' and 'Obie' do not appear at all.
--P64 (talk) 20:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
--P64 (talk) 20:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Ellington won a special Pulitzer Prize in 1999, his centennial year. Our own article Pulitzer Prize for Music [1943 to present] includes a lot of information about the scope of the award in prose sections 1 and 2, History and Criticism, generally with references. That includes much more than we say here about Ellington's 1965 experience and his reaction to it (History lead paragraph). Also lengthy quotation from the 2004 announcement of reform, "{...} While Special Awards and Citations continue to be an important option, the Pulitzer Board believes that the Music Prize ..." (end of same section).
Among other things, it's clear that Giddins 2004 (now ref#53 in this article) is a poor source --WP:RELIABLE but not reliable-- as the author of that reference surmised. --P64 (talk) 01:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
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I have removed Ellington's 'last words' as I'm not confident the source is good enough. The article previously read:
His last words were, "Music is how I live, why I live and how I will be remembered."[1]
I don't think this source is particularly trustworthy. I've found various other sources on the Internet that have the same quote, but none attribute any source to the quote.
It seems like this is the kind of 'last words' that can't really be independently be verified. Unless we're able to find strong sources, we should, in my opinion, treat this quote as if it's a myth. (I'd be delighted to be notified it's not.) Uncle Alf (talk) 20:24, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
The following edit, which I posted in the Tribute section of this article, appears to be a cause for concern:
Noted jazz authority and Miami jazz radio broadcaster, China Valles attributed his nickname, "The Maharajah" to Ellington. He said: "He had a way of describing things like no other. Once, I went back stage to see him after he performed. He opened his dressing room door and said, `Ahhh, it's the Maharajah, Purveyor of Swirls.' "What a fascinating mind. I played records, so I was a purveyor of swirls. Over time, it stuck."
The quote was reliably sourced and the story of that nickname has been widely reported. Additionally, the quote comes from someone who was, not only a longtime personal friend of Ellington's, but as a jazz authority and eminently respected jazz radio broadcaster for decades in his own right, certainly a noteworthy individual. So it would seem that placing the quote in the tribute section of this article - alongside other quotes from other jazz individuals - is entirely appropriate. So I would appreciate an explanation by, and would welcome a discussion with, any editor objecting to its inclusion. X4n6 (talk) 18:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
There is a consensus to exclude information in this edit about radio broadcaster China Valles being given a nickname by Duke Ellingtion. The majority opinion was that the material is about Valles and doesn't give much insight into Ellington. The minority opinion was that the material is directly about Ellington and provides insight into Ellington. This is a matter of editorial discretion and editors overwhelmingly were against inclusion.
Cunard (talk) 22:26, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Should this article include information about radio broadcaster China Valles being given a nickname by Duke Ellingtion? The content is that contained in this edit. — Diannaa (talk) 12:53, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment: Unfortunately, this question misstates the issue. The real question is: Should this article contain content about Duke Ellington, from a radio broadcaster, China Valles, who knew him? The discussion can be reviewed here. X4n6 (talk) 19:24, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
This article is FAR too laudatory. Fact is Ellington was hardly central to jazz development. Nearly no band played his stuff, unlike that of Henderson, Lunceford, Hines, and Basie. He seems to have hated playing for dancers and it's telling that he was most popular in the early '40s, when dancing was on the way out. In the '50s he was as dead as Frank Sinatra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.28.102.27 (talk) 02:26, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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The Personal Life section of this individual's article makes him out to be an anti-family sex fiend. And no, I'm not black. I'm not sure why we need to know more than who his children/spouses were i.e. dates of marriage, birth, etc. It should be a quick read. As it is now, he's "[leaving] his family" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BC3A:1E30:14E8:5EE1:FC6E:C377 (talk) 05:54, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
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I am removing the tag added by Rms125a@hotmail.com in February 2018. In the absence of explanation here or in the original edit, I am not clear what was the concern in this case of an article developed by many editors about a subject deceased over 40 years ago and without substantial recent edits by any particular editor. However, if there is a specific concern, it can be discussed here? AllyD (talk) 08:24, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Am i mistaken in recalling Will Marion Cook as a mentor of Duke Ellington? No mention i can find in either article. --Jerzy (t) 12:50, 2005 Apr 16 (UTC) This article needs some grammar work. Commas and pauses in spoken English do not correspond, and many of the sentences are run on. Perhaps some kind soul will add their efforts in cleaning this article down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.255.114.169 (talk) 05:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Ellington knew Cook and took his advice but mentor is too strong a word. 198.30.138.91 (talk) 02:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen
Duke Farmhand23 (talk) 02:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)