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How is Porsche pronounced? Is his surname French alike? Where is an accent - on first o or on the last e? Best regards. --XJamRastafire 00:52 Sep 9, 2002 (UTC)
Sorry, I see I have to specify this. Yes, the IPA symbols are there now - in the edited version of this article, and presumably of several others.
(a) But only recently, I stumbled upon a lot of articles containing fonts obviously not (as) compatible, showing lots of small squares instead - so, there still seems some work to be done.
(b) And I accidentially managed to correct the pronunciation of "Porsche" here (it must end with an (IPA-)"e", not an "ə" - the latter would be correct only if the written ending were "-er", not just "-e") - only because the "ə"-symbol was recognizable in the editing version (shown in some version of Courier), but the rest, except "p", were all symbolized by equal-looking small squares. Does that mean my only chance is to paste-and-copy the previous phonetic version from the article page (if there is one, and in case it needs correction) and (or only) the signs from the Help:IPA page (which seemingly might lack some characters that may be needed, as it shows "Main symbols" ... only), then compose in some other text program window that shows the characters properly (how do I make sure it does?), and then copy it into the editing window, hoping what shows up there as a row of illegible squares will turn back into the signs I intended them to be when I save it? Is there really, really, really no easier procedure than this kinda half-blind flight?
Phew. -- joeditt (talk) 01:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
To the anon IP who insists on putting in a sentence and link about Erwin Komenda - yes, there is a case that Komenda gets too little credit and Porsche gets too much credit for the design of several cars. However, Ferdinand Porsche's page is not the right place to go into that. It is appropriate to mention it on the Porsche page, and the pages of the cars he designed or helped design.
This is, by the way, a common situation. The leader of the design team gets all the credit even if much or all of the work is actually done by someone they employ. The same is true for many industrial designers (much of the work attributed to Raymond Loewy, for example, involved no pencil-to-paper on the part of Raymond; employees did all the work, the boss just chose out of possibilities presented to him and gave direction)
--Morven 16:54, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
18:09, 2003 Oct 28 (UTC)
Thanks, that may at least defuse things a little.
My personal thought is that if this is to get any mention on Ferdinand or Ferry Porsche's page the text should relate to them directly, rather than being the same cut and paste sentence.
Mentioning that Ferdinand Porsche gets most of the popular credit for a lot of things that were actually as much or more a product of his employees, and pointing out that this is common practice in the design industry -- the boss gets the credit -- would be a bit more NPOV. Mentioning Komenda as one of those who gets overlooked in favor of the boss would be OK for me too.
--Morven 22:46, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
JUST A THOUGHT:
Shouldn't this page consider division into chapters:
(i.e.) --Early Life --WWI --WWII
Porche is a fascinating man with a career so linked with the World Wars -- but that almost seems lost and in this bio. His involvement in WWII with the Nazis in both the Racing circuit and in the War effort really shaped his life and that that of the world. He represents a true place in history - so perhaps a chapter insersion could better work here. Just a suggestion. DH - 10/16/05
In this case, it's rather difficult to revert to a pre-edit-war version. Since there's no getting around the fact that I agree with Wik that the link should not be included, I have protected the page on a version including the link, to avoid the perception of bias.
I've seen both Wik and Lir resort to edit wars (not infrequently with each other), and there's something you both need to understand: edit wars are bad, futile, pointless, immature, and a breach of Wikiquette. Use the Talk page already, will you? -- Cyan 02:28, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Wik makes personal attacks against me; and refues to discuss things with me. Lirath Q. Pynnor
If Kommenda and Porsche worked together, then there should be a see also from this page to that of Kommenda's. Lirath Q. Pynnor
Some context around the link would make that clear. Having the link as a "see also" at the bottom gives it an emphasis that isn't so good. -- Cyan 18:09, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)
If you want to add context, you might as well write a paragraph in the main article; which explicitly describes their relationship. In the meantime, a see also is an indicator that there is some sort of relationship -- I don't see how it gives any emphasis, its more of a de-emphasis since it seems to indicate that the relationship is such that nobody has seen fit to actually write about it. Lirath Q. Pynnor
Perhaps it's fairer to say "gave", rather than "gives". I believe Morven said something about that link having been posted on every article having to do with Porsche. That's the emphasis I was talking about. -- Cyan 21:17, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Well, thats an issue for those pages. Komenda should not be linked from every article having to do with Porsche; but, he should definitely be linked from this page, and the page regarding the Porsche Company; because, he was Porsche's chief engineer. He deserves mention here, just as Cheney deserves mention at the GW Bush page. Lirath Q. Pynnor
Hello Wik, thanks for fixing my spelling errors. I just shouldn't write articles that early in the morning, with eyes still half closed. -- JeLuF 19:46, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Dear Authors,
Please note: Ferdinand Porsche joined the company of Ludwig Lohner and not Jacob Lohner. I think the wording should be corrected accordingly. See http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.l/l826666.htm
Regards, --Millisits 23:06, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
There is a lot of confusion in this page. Then it is German, then it is Austrian.
According to al sources I have, Porsche is an Austrian, so he should be listed as an Austrian inventor, not German. Some of the cars he made were made in Germany, these are German cars. Some of them were made in Austria (Austria-Hunagary) and should be called Austrian. My sources tell he worked for Lohner, Austro-Daimler of Austria and for Daimler-Benz, Zündapp, NSU, KdF (later to be Volkswagen) and Porsche (though initially set up in Gmünd, Austria). NL Buttonfreak 17:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Porsche was an Austrian FROM Bohemia, right. Moved to Germany, right. And yes, Gmünd is in Austria (in Carinthia - there's, a.o., another Gmünd in northern Lower Austria at precisely 15° E longitude). Only, that Austria-Hungary hint is puzzling. The Austro-Hungarian monarchy, having caused WW I, ended in 1918. After other nations' split-off, the country then equaled today's Austria - plus Southern Tyrol. ▪ joeditt 01:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Porsche was a German. Both of his parents were German nationals living in the Kingdom of Hungary which was, for a time, known as Austro-Hungary. I am not going to change the wiki without additional support from other historical researchers, but I believe this will be confirmed over time. The facts are, he was born into the Kingdom of Hungary and not Austro-Hungary. Check the time-line. He would actually be more of a Hungarian national than a Austrian. However, he considered himself a German most of his adult life. Of course, he did work for Austrian companies. This, however, does not make him Austrian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.251.65 (talk) 03:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
The german wiki says he was born in Bohemia, which was part of the Austrian part of austria-hungary, not the kingdom of hungary. so he was born within the austrian borders -> he was austrian, no doubt. Eromae (talk) 19:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
My dear Austrians: You only can get Porsche if you take Hitler, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.192.35.88 (talk) 12:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
I removed the "Nazi Leader" and "SS" categories, until someone can proof that he was either enlisted in SS or that he took any active role in the Third Reich other than that of a automotive engineer.
Jack O'Neill 05:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Supposedly, Ferdinand used slave labor to build the beetle. Is there any proof for or against this? --65.102.201.210 (talk) 15:42, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Now it says he was an "SS activist". From what I've read, he was largely apolitical. He mostly cared about cars and things that mattered to cars. He did enjoy a class system and was rather taken aback when visiting the Ford factory and the managers ate with the workers and everybody carried their own trays. But that doesn't make him an SS activist, so I'm taking it out until somebody provides a link. Nerfer (talk) 22:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
It strikes me as odd that one of the most highly regarded engineers of German tanks and tank destroyers gets so little attention paid to his WWII designs such as the Tiger, Tiger II and Elephant. If anyone has any sourcable material to add to this neglected era of his life would they please do so? NeoFreak 00:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Adding these facts as facts - in Wikipedia/-media's spirit - is a good idea. But not according to the here chosen words, as if otherwise sort of an honoring duty would be "neglected". Like there should be knowledge of Wernher von Braun's contribution to the V2 which fortunately was developed late enough to help the allied forces overcome the Nazi's terror regime, but never seeing a lack of such information as a "neglection" of von Braun's work. Hope you just expressed your thought imprecisely. ▪ joeditt 01:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
In his new book, "The Nazi Criminals of Stuttgart," Viehover surveys the role of the city's residents in the Third Reich. A significant chapter is devoted to Porsche's founder, Ferdinand Porsche (1875-1951). Viehover describes him as "Hitler's favorite engineer" and says the men knew each other. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1120124.html
And,
Ferdinand Porsche himself served Hitler during the war as the head of his tank commission. He supported Hitler's power and profited from the regime. Nevertheless, Mommsen believes that "the question as to the extent to which Porsche understood the criminal character of the regime he served must remain open." http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,637368,00.html
Both quotes were retrieved from their respective sources on 04/01/2010 11:07 AM MST. Offchance (talk) 18:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
According to the German Wikipedia he was Austrian. Since he was born in Austria-Hungary that seems logical to me and I'll change that now. One could rather argue whether he considered himself as German or Austrian, but to call him a Czech is just ridicoulous.--217.85.73.92 20:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Right: today, the Porsche Family is mostly considered Austrian, having moved to Germany. Yet, I - as an Austrian - must reject the argument that neither the Czekoslovakian nor the Czech republic did exist: that's as if you'd insist Benjamin Franklin was British, and not (even later becoming) an US citizen, because the USA didn't exist before 1776. "Ethnicity doesn't(didn't) matter" is misleading: there was neither estimation of ethnical or cultural diversity nor equality. The Habsburg's Austrian empire expanded partly by strategic marriages, not only by (expensive and risky) battles - mainly colonizing inland territories (incl. settlement of loyal state clerks made reliable & thankful by getting accomodations and safe state jobs, or farms larger than they owned back home). I.e., some of today's German-speaking enclaves in GUS states audibly grew up with a language based on centuries-old versions of Upper Austrian dialects. After a rather peaceful coexistence for centuries, rejection against the Habsburg's paternalism was re-awakened in the 19th century, discharging into the empire's breakup in 1918, and re-awakened even stronger when the Nazi, after occupying Czekoslovakia, made use of German-speaking citizens to administrate and safeguard their terror regime. Returning to be suppressed by intruders - with the help of people living in their own country, even personal friends - of the same basic foreign mother language explains a.o. the Czech partisans' overreaction in 1945: my own great-grandmother (German-speaking Moravian) died during that displacement march, whereas my (German-speaking Bohemian) stepmother for some years experienced life in Leipa was easier when she avoided to speak German. Should be dealt with on related history pages, but I wanted to add some background to the above remark "you could probably choose to call yourself German or Austrian or Czech" - sure you could, but I think the people, in this case Bohemians, Moravians and Slovakians, deserve a more sensitive statement than what might be seen as return to more than just partiotical pocketing attitudes usual in earlier decades and i.e. letting us Austrians declare Hitler a German and Beethoven a Viennese.
Not knowing what Ferdinand Porsche considered himself, I'd call him an Austrian from Bohemia - not leaving away the second part -, who moved to Germany. So, I wouldn't bluntly call him Czech (or merely Austrian) in an article that should inform correctly, but I also wouldn't comment such an attribution harshly as "ridiculous", much less with unacceptable, quasi-colonialist arguments. Who would daresay it's "ridiculous" to call Chopin a Pole (who moved to France) instead of a "Russian", as from more than a decade before his lifetime till many decades after (with a partial, short exception by Napoleon) "there was no Poland on the map." Go try stating this somewhere in Chicago ... ▪ joeditt 01:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I updated the "Early years" intro once more: mentioning the czech name Vratislavice first is more appropriate, as German names have been added later - after the Habsburgs' inland colonization. Like I would never dare to respectlessly call e. g. Zimbabwe "former Rhodesia", as if the British had been there first. -- joeditt (talk) 20:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
"Ferdinand Porsche was born to Nazi-speaking parents"
What the hell is a nazi-speaking person? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.51.200 (talk) 18:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
The article says he was arrested by the French on war crimes and "The innovative 4WD design never raced, but the money it received was used to redeem Ferdinand Porsche from prison." What does that mean ? Used to pay bail to get him out, and he was later found innocent of the charges ? Or used to bribe somebody to drop the charges ? StuRat (talk) 17:00, 2 May 2014 (UTC)