This article is written in South African English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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The content of this article has been derived in whole or part from email exchange with Bruce Berry, see below. Permission has been received from the copyright holder to release this material . Evidence of this has been confirmed and stored by VRT volunteers, under ticket number 2016032210006686. Applies to Anthere's edits marked as such in the edit summaries, in Special:Diff/713672067/715886407 This template is used by approved volunteers dealing with the Wikimedia volunteer response team system (VRTS) after receipt of a clear statement of permission at permissions-enwikimedia.org. Do not use this template to claim permission. |
When the new flag was designed, it was specifically stated that the colours had no official meaning or symbolism, other than their choice from their use in the past. However, in recent times an unofficial consensus has been reached in terms of an accepted meaning for the flag and its colours.
Despite the official denial of symbolism, three of the colours - black, green and yellow - are found in the flag of the African National Congress (ANC). The other three - red, white and blue - are used in the flag of the Netherlands and the flag of the United Kingdom; these colours were also found in the old flag of South Africa, although with orange instead of red. The flag could thus be interpreted as a display of unity between the two South African traditions. Red, yellow and green are also the Pan-African colours.
It is also said that the colours represent the three major political parties of South Africa, that is The ANC, the National Party and the Democratic Party.
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Since I really don't have the time, nor the patience, to enter a possible long row of reverts and arguing different viewpoints the above is what my original edit was before it got reverted. I obviously picked a bad reference, which was the first somewhat decent one I hit by looking it up on Google
after I had checked some of the other Wikis. The Afrikaans Wiki already had the same text, just not as verbose. The same was and is the case with the Dutch, German, Spanish, and Swedish Wikis. I didn't check any other Wikis since I don't know those languages well enough. Thus I obviously didn't think it was that touchy a subject for me to edit, but I'll leave for others to argue and maybe come to an agreement about what, if anything, should and should not be entered. Laniala (talk) 14:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
The proposed revision surely makes much more sense, given the fact that the designer of the flag himself has explained that there is no symbolism or meaning attached to the colours or shapes. 45.220.58.3 (talk) 11:05, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
The caption under the picture of the South African Flag states the ratio is 2:3, yet the picture is ratio 3:5. What's goin on here? Is the ratio incorrect or just the flag? SKC
This article still incorporates biased points of view. To wit:
1. Apartheid's abolition in 1994 did NOT "make it necessary" for the flag to change. The flag was changed because a majority of people wanted it changed, but the article should eliminate faulty cause/effect clauses.
2. While the previous regime was widely seen as racist, the flag per se isn't necessarily offensive or "racist." There's no "swastika" or "death to black people" slogans on it. I'll grant that the flag may have been "unrepresentative," but then that's why it was changed. Too much political correctness is covering up history.
Any explanation as to what the various elements represent? --Corvus13
If someone could create or find a public domain flag of the previous naional flag. adding it would be great. - fonzyvgrty
The union jack in the second flag on this page is upside-down. Was this an intentional part of the original flag, or just a mistake by whoever made the picture?
I removed a few paragraphs from the intro. While this seems like a big change, I carefully checked and these paragraphs were explained later in the article at roughly the same level of detail, perhaps a bit more. They were really just redundant — but I welcome any dissent. Deco 03:18, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know what system the "Textile colour" CKS codes refer to? None of the Category:Color space entries seems relevant, except Pantone which has a separate column. Also, does anyone have the missing Pantones for black and white? At a guess, "black c" and 'white c" :) Joestynes 09:34, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The "CKS codes" are not from a colour system at all. They are in fact simply the reference numbers of samples of fabric kept by the SABS as reference material. They keep similar swatches for other official fabrics such a SANDF and Police uniforms, medal ribbons, etc. (They even have swatches of some school uniform colours and university graduation gown colours.) See [1]. There isn't a cite for the "alleged" pantone equivalents. Roger (talk) 13:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
The South African Gov't website http://www.info.gov.za/aboutgovt/symbols/flag.htm lists "approximate Pantone equivalents" for the green, gold, red, and blue.24.245.100.170 (talk) 20:35, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Wayback site for: PDF two paragraphs up: [2] and site in paragraph directly above: [3] (Vollink) 108.14.236.112 (talk) 22:26, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
IMHO most (if not all) of the Proper display of the flag section should be removed or moved elsewhere. AFAIK rules described there (Respect for the flag, Traditional rules for handling the flag, Correct display of the flag, Showing the flag with other country's flags, Showing the flag with non-national flags, Showing the flag indoors, Parades and ceremonies, Half mast, Disposal) are universally accepted for all flags of the world - and it's also nothing special that South Africa has a law to cannonize them. Other countries have similar laws; nothing special about SA flag here. Illustrations are cool, though. Perhaps they can be moved somewhere appropriate; some subarticle of the flag comes to mind.--romanm (talk) 14:44, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I once thought about dyeing a pair of my underpants to resemble the South African flag, I'm not exactly the new flags biggest fan (I've always though it looked a bit tacky, like something made on MS Paint) I know it's become associated with white supremacy, but the old one will always be the flag of South Africa to me-Ted Fox 06:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Distress, not Surrender
"The flag should never be depicted, displayed or flown upside down. Flying a flag upside down is the traditional sign of surrender."
While I can't be 100% certain, I'm sure the tradition of flying or displaying a flag upside down is a sign of distress (for whatever the flag represents, be it nation state, etc), and isn't as specific as signifying surrender. This tradition AFAIK is held almost worldwide. (Although of course a state of surrender would be a reason for someone to fly it in distress.)--Myfanwy 21:52, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
For some reason, PZFUN decided not only to revert my removal of the intro paragraphs, with an explanation that I don't really buy, but also all my other changes, right down to paragraphing fixes and correction of wording. Is this some kind of personal revenge against me, or just laziness? No justification was provided at all. Deco 17:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Maybe I'm seeing things, but the flag looks like it has an equilateral black triangle (all sides being of the same length), not isoceles. At least, it's more correct to call it equilateral. --Doctorcherokee 00:01, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Which vexillological symbol is correct for this flag? now we've got two of them listed.--jacobolus (t) 18:02, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The Afrikaans for Prince's Flag is Prinsevlag - Princenvlag is Dutch, and would not have been used in South Africa, certainly not after Afrikaans replaced Dutch as an official language.
Quiensabe 00:58 UTC Jul 1 2005
Isn't it illegal to fly the old flag, not just offensive? Joziboy 12:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
There is substantial overlap between the two articles, I propose a merge. Chris 18:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Anyone have a link to a picture of the 1960s proposed flag?
The one designed by H.C. Blatt, I mean. I can't, for the life of me, find it anywhere. Josh (talk) 08:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
The opening paragraph is inaccurate as it states that the new flag was adopted after the first multi racial elections when in fact the fact was adopted before them or rather just before them on the day of the elections. The flag was adopted at midnight South African time when April 26 turned into April 27. I know this as I saw this event happen live on television in Canada just before 6:00 PM when the old flag was lowered during an official event & the new flag was raised.
I took this shot recently at the cricket, and quite liked it - the guys waving it were very friendly too! - I know flags generally can be quite sensitive issues, so I thought I'd drop this image in here for regular editors of this page to see if they thought it was worth a spot in the article? best, Privatemusings (talk) 01:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
I think we should rewrite the symbolism section and base its contents on citable references. I myself have added to it and had my edits removed because the facts were unpopular, and I don't mind -- it is not my article, after all. But currently what is written in the article is pure fantasy that is retain (AFAIK) simply because it is what the alt-langs all have in their articles about the flag.
So let's get some facts about the symbolism.
Despite trying various search terms I was unable to find other meanings attributed to the flag's colours specifically, particularly in the gov.za and ac.za domains. I could find no colour-based symbolism articles in any South African newspaper.
There has been negative comments about the flag in the press and on blogs, but everytime these are added to the article (cited or not) they are removed again, so I think we should make peace with the fact that "happy thoughts only"-ists will always come and edit South African related articles.
By the way, the Southern African Vexillological Association published a guide on the correct usage of the flag. Interesting stuff: [10]
-- leuce (talk) 22:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
There are two oft quoted sources for the proper display of the South African flag. The one is the official guidelines published in the Government Gazette (GG) [11] and the other is the guide published by SAVA (Southern African Vexillological Association) [12].
Some points:
I have no objection to a section on proper display, but I think we should be careful to let Wikipedia perpetuate a set of guidelines that do not really apply to everyone. -- leuce (talk) 23:34, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
It says the flag should never be used to start or finish a competition. How about competitions in which it's usual to start with a national flag? F.x. ski jumpers normally get "start" command by a national flag wink... Do South Africans use something different in such cases?--Alexmagnus2 (talk) 22:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I removed this bit of trivia: " The South African flag is the only national flag in the world with six colours and without a seal or brocade. " I checked this and it seems to be correct, but is it significant information or just trivia? -- leuce (talk) 14:36, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This article was demoted during a Featured article review in 2007. Has it improved since then? It appears that the main issue was a shortage of inline citations (Featured article criteria #1(c)). I would be helpful if those responsible for writing certain sections could use the <ref name=xxxxxx/> format to cite their sources at every statement they were used for. I see that some books are also cited, but no inline. Did these contribute to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gk sa (talk • contribs) 15:52, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I have reverted Dodger67's inclusion of the air force ensign in the infobox. There are several ensigns for South Africa, of the combined SANDF, the Navy, the Air Force, the Health Service, the Police, the Prison service, it makes no sense for just the Air Force to be included. The ensigns of South Africa are available on List of South African flags, this is in keeping with many other flag articles. Fry1989 eh? 02:25, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
regarding the blazon in the opening section, I really don't see how a citation is needed as it's just a description of the flag using blazon terminology as is standard for flags, coat of arms and similar designs. The source is simply the flag itself. Yes, the language is very jargon-y, but all the terms likely to be unfamiliar to an average reader have links to the relevant articles. --87.82.207.195 (talk) 19:29, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
Here is a good BBC account of the development of the flag Fred Brownell: The man who made South Africa's flag Onanoff (talk) 13:58, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Government Notice #510 gives the following specifications on the flag of South Africa:
The National Flag shall be rectangular in the proportion of two in the width to three in the length; per pall from the hoist, the upper band chili red and the lower band blue, with a black triangle at the hoist, over the partition lines a green pall one fifth the width of the flag, fimbriated white against the chili red and blue, and gold against the black triangle at the hoist; the width of the pall and its fimbriations is one third the width of the flag.
The construction sheet added by Dodger67 is consistent with this (other than that the law does not specify the diagonal arms of the pall should be parallel to the diagonals of the flag field). All vertex coordinates can be geometrically derived from this sheet; while I haven't done that, it's highly unlikely they are all rational numbers as Warrior Of Light's/Tohaomg's file implies. SiBr4 (talk) 11:28, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Flag of South Africa (1928–1994) has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flag of South Africa (1928–1994), with the intended result that any new comment be merged to this article. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 19:24, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Anthere has incorporated substantial text received by email from Bruce Berry, and noted such in the edit summaries (see diffs between Special:Diff/713672067/715886407). As an OTRS agent, I confirm that Ticket:2016032210006686 archives his license of that text under the Creative Commons-Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International license. Storkk (talk) 12:32, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
A new page related to this article, South Africa Red Ensign, has been nominated via AfD. Ibadibam (talk) 17:59, 7 September 2016 (UTC)