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{split} The section of this feature "The Latham Diaries" should be separated into a distinct article on wiki for the book.
"On 6 July he called a press conference and denounced the government for maintaining what he called a "dirt unit," which he said was gathering personal material about him, including details of his failed first marriage. The government denied that any such unit existed, but most observers believe that Liberal Party researchers have accumulated more potentially embarrassing material about Latham, which will be used during the election campaign."
The last sentence has been truncated at "but most observers"...
Rather than removing the entire thing, how about change "but most observers" to "but some observers"?
I have edited the bit which said by Mid-August he was ahead in all published opinion polls; in the Westpoll released on 9 August it was revealed Latham's support in Western Australia had fallen to below Simon Creane's levels - and that if an election was held at the time of polling, he would lose Western Australia's 3 most marginal Labor seats. - Mark 08:54, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There are three national opinion polls, Newspoll, Morgan and Saulwick. Labor was well ahead in each of these in their last public poll. Regional polls don't count. Adam 08:59, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The correct place to discuss the polls in more detail is at Australian federal election, 2004. Adam 14:16, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
What does it mean by there is too much information for an article of this size? that doesn't make any sense. If information needs to be put into the article, then put it in! Maybe it can be somewhat reduced in size, but there's a difference between butchering the information and copy-editting it. I'm reverting and hopefully we can fix this in discussion. I'm certainly open to ideas, but not if it makes the information misleading. The other problem I have with the edit Adam Carr made was because it does not properly attribute the research efforts of Margaret Simons, where I got this information from. Bad, very bad. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:40, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Adam 09:25, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles most certainly should contain references, IMHO, since otherwise the veracity of the information can in no way be ascertained, and you just end up with a bunch of weasel words. As far as the council stint goes, its very appearance in the journal article indicates that it's of some relevance to Latham's current political career (and the Liberal party certainly seems to think so too . . .), so we are obliged to at least give it some mention. The council business isn't *more* important, but the article as a whole could really do with more details on Latham's writings and political philosophy, and, related to this, his background. As TBSDY says, the article itself makes interesting reading. Lacrimosus 11:28, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The following reference has been archived: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10465231%255E7583,00.html (about the 2001 Children Overboard Affair). It was written by Patrick Weller and the title was "Truth Liews in Murky Waters" but I have no further details. Could someone tell me what date the article was written? It was in the Australian. Thanks. - Ta bu shi da yu 05:37, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I added that last edit to WP:BJAODN - too funny (and true) to resist--ZayZayEM 09:25, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
All references are now in the references section of this article now. Finally did it! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:22, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Can anyone tell my why this was removed? The relevant section was:
Surely this information shouldn't have been removed? - Ta bu shi da yu 04:58, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Details about the debate belong in the election article, not a Latham biographical article. Adam 05:28, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, I did write a note, but it got lost in an edit conflict. Adam 06:06, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
While I will defend the right of anyone to an opinion, and me to my own, I wonder that the recurrence of illness has been downplayed in the article by the removal of much of my material from 13:17 16 Jan 05, especially as it seems to have been precipitous in him leaving the leadership and the parliament. (I not having a go, Adam.) From a NPOV perspective, I suggest that some now needs to go back, at least when the dust settles a little. Peter Ellis 06:45, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Why must we have more bloody boxes? Unless someone can give a good justification for this box, which contains no information which is not already in the article, and is very ugly, I am going to delete it. Adam 12:59, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It is appalingly ugly. It should either be removed or radically redesigned. Lacrimosus 05:52, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
What is the status of the two photos which someone has added? Both have clearly been lifted from Australian media websites. They are thus in breach of copyright. Attaching a "fair use under US copyright law" label doesn't alter this. Australia is not part of the US and The Age will certainly object to its photos being used in this way. Adam 05:47, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Most of the references are now redundant and can be deleted. References are really only needed when something controversial is said in an article. References to simple matters of public record are not needed. Adam 13:47, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I removed them because they are ugly and unnecessary. This is an encyclopaedia article, not a high school essay. If I write "Mark Latham is an alien," that needs to be referenced because it is a controversial statement for which evidence needs to be provided. If I write "Mark Latham resigned today," that does not need to be referenced because it is a simple statement of public record. I don't know what "camping in this article" means. I have the same right to edit as anyone else. Adam 11:41, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I think that references serve a useful purpose for events that are reasonably current - since they allow interested readers to find out further information. This ability to stay updated is a good way to take advantage of the Wiki format's flexibility. Lacrimosus 05:49, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This assumes that Wikipedia readers are complete idiots. If they want to learn more about Mark Latham, they can google him, they can look at a newspaper website or they can follow any of the links provided at the end of the article. They don't need a mass of links embedded in the text. Adam 10:33, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
An encyclopaedia is a source, or at least it's supposed to be. Go and look at any other encyclopaedia - no footnoting, only some bibliographical references at the end of the article, if that. That's because readers trust that what they read in the Britannica or Funk & Wagnalls is true. If you argue that Wikipedia articles cannot be believed unless every statement of fact in them is referenced to an external source, then you are admitting that Wikipedia has no credibility and is not in fact an encyclopaedia. If you think that, why bother writing for it? Adam 02:09, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well you're dead wrong. The absence of footnoting in serious encyclopaedias is a matter of policy. Adam 10:00, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'd just like to point out to Adam that the photo he has contributed to Wikipedia (Image:Ac.marklatham.jpg) is now licensed under the GFDL. This means that anyone can make any modification to the image. So the edit summary "Why has my image been fucked around with like this?" Is totally inappropriate and I'd advise that he watch what he writes in his edit summaries. - Ta bu shi da yu 00:29, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
We've previously had discussions about boxes for articles on Australian leaders; the consensus seems to have been that they are unnecessary and ugly. I don't mind this particular box, but given that it will likely be removed anyway by others, I'm taking it out. We should probably sort it out here before putting any sort of picture box in the article. Slac speak up! 00:16, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Number of kids is incorrect. should be 3.
With Latham making headlines recently commentators have been saying he is attacking his "old party". Does that mean he no longer a member of the party since he has been compared to Billy Hughes. --The Shadow Treasurer 29 June 2005 00:54 (UTC)
He won't be much longer if I've got any say. Adam 29 June 2005 01:13 (UTC)
In the Enough Rope interview just screened, he stated that he was still a member of the party. Extension 14:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
Given the amount of publicity that the Latham Diaries have generated, does anyone else think we should have a separate article for the book? Or should we just include the details within the main article?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.238.91.195 (talk • contribs) 18:36, 19 September 2005 (AEST)
In response to the question in the most recent edit summary (which in fact did not revert my deletion of the external link to an interview by Latham) - we have a link to the Enough Rope transcript - the most important recent interview. Latham has given many interviews in his time and I do not believe the external links section needs to be comprehensive. Only noteworthy interviews should be linked, those that for example alter materially public perception, I don't believe the nominated link did that.--User:AYArktos | Talk 20:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I found the section on Latham's public lecture at Melbourne Uni to be fascinating and entirely consistent with what Latham's current viewpoint (seems to be/)is. However, given the high profile of this article (eg. Enough Rope website provided it as their Latham biography) I'm ultra cautious when it comes to sourcing POV's etc. Do we have any external printed source for the lecture? Because if we don't, good as the material is, I'm afraid it will have to be removed. Slac speak up! 13:12, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Maybe worth adding something about what Hawke said in the final part of last night's 7.30 Report interview [6]. I'm too short of time sorry. The media picked up on it today [7]. It's interesting because even Wikipedia has used a photo of Hawke and Latham together, and it now seems Hawke was not the Latham backer he appeared to be. Tale 17:33, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I think that the general response to Latham's actions since losing the leadership of the ALB needs to be stated, not just the comments by Hawke. --RaiderAspect 13:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Leave how is. Hawke is 2 faced, he just wanted to be seen as being right all along. He knows how to stab someone in the back very well, without being seen to be holding the knife
I'm not up to it right now but Crikey has an interesting discussion on the 'dirt unit' and the behaviour of the media regarding a non-existant sex-tape, "Latham and the dirt wars". Some of it could be pretty relevant in light of some of the issues that have come out of the Diaries. 203.51.35.216 16:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)Tom
Prime Minister Howard accused Latham of a "cut and run" approach and of taking an "un-Australian" position.
I'd be surprised if he actually used the word "un-Australian". He may have said stuff that some may argue are to the same effect, but Howard should not be wrongly accused of using in 2004 a word many regard as offensive. Andjam 03:45, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
There's a couple of things that could do with citations:
Sounds like an opinion, and
sounds like original research.
I get the impression that some wikipedians have a rather low opinion on John Howard, given that
was in the featured article version. Were youse guys thinking that he'd decide not to call an election? (I fixed it by changing "election" to "early election") Andjam 01:51, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
The term 'pro-American' government (I assume it refers to Anzar's government) is an oversimplification. The opposition wasn't anti-American or supported the adversary of America, it just had a different policy on sending troops to Iraq. Kransky Kransky 07:52, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
The following was in a speedy tagged article that is now a redirect to here. It does not appear notable enough for it's own article but might fit in here CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC) '''''Ease the squeeze''''' was a political slogan created by [[Mark Latham]], former [[Australian House of Representatives]] [[Division of Werriwa|Member for Werriwa]], leader of the [[Australian Labor Party]] and [[leader of the opposition]]. It was intended to describe the intention of Labor Party [[fiscal policy]] to reduce the economic pressure upon [[Australia]]n citizens, to reduce or ease the pressure and expense of daily living. It was aimed at the economically focused 'aspirational voter'.
I just wanted to clean the article up a bit so that it flows a little better, and I also changed/removed a few statements that may not belong in an encyclopaedic article.
-Firstly I wrote that Latham chose to resign, instead of being "forced" to. I definitely think he was on the verge of being booted out, but there's nothing to suggest he wanted to stay.
-Some of the quotes from Bernie Lagan's book appeared in the section on The Latham Diaries. So, I just corrected that.
-Regarding his first lecture, there was a sentence that a question time following the lecture revealed idealism was still strong among youth - or words to that effect. The citation makes no mention of this so I took it out. Feel free to put it back if you've got the citation.
-Finally regarding the incident with the Channel 7 cameraman. I remember the news footage and I think almost ran over seems a bit extreme. I can remember the cameraman retreating several feet from his original position, but even if he hadn't Latham's car would have missed him. In actual fact there was a good metre or so of distance between them. We all know Latham's intention was to scare the poor bloke, but nevertheless 'almost ran over' doesn't accurately portray the incident. I elliot 07:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Just updated final sentence since release of book.Hopesrise 06:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Does the phrase need its own article? Or shall we ease the squeeze by merging it? Andjam 15:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I have a concern that this section is unbalanced - it paints a portrait of a violent and unstable recluse. Is that entirely fair only citing these incidents so comprehensively? It leaves the article ending with a definite flavour bias against Mark Latham. Miles Gillham 05:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Image:Latham.Howard.04.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
as i have said before, why has it taken all of HALF a year for this to be a issue? i have edited it, i cannot see any reason why its not acceptable now. (PAuLw1985 17:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC))
For those who keep adding the word "heavily", I suggest you look at federal elections gone by through the years, available on wikipedia. The coalition's 52.7% of the two party preferred vote (meaning 47.3% for Labor) is not a heavy victory/defeat. Timeshift 14:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. Two-party preferred is a largely useless statistic. Since the Australian electoral system depends on the number of seats held by a party, it is completely possible for a party to even have a majority of the two-party preferred vote and still be completely devastated in an election. If, for example, the Foo party holds a large majority in a few divisions but the Bar party has a tiny majority in a large number of of divisions, you can easily have a situation where you have a two party preferred vote of, say, Foo 70% vs Bar 30% - yet the result is still a landslide defeat for the Foo party. Johno (talk) 10:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Image:Labortragedybiography.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 23:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I thought Mark Latham appearance and pretty dramatic disruption, as a reporter for channel 9 in the 2010 election would get a mention? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.106.244 (talk) 23:52, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
So there's an edit war going on in the "Essay for The Monthly" section, where the insertion of the following material appears to be problematic:
Latham's suggested solution is that Labor again champions great causes, rather than being the focus-group directed party that it currently is. He suggests that action on climate change would be one such great cause, if the Gillard Government has the courage for it.
Further reverts should be avoided, there's no reason we can't have this out here. I share Timeshift's concerns about the neutrality of this passage, and I'm not sure we need to go into too much detail about his advice for the ALP in The Monthly. That said, I'm not entirely opposed to this material being included in some form, perhaps it could be incorporated into the section more naturally. Thoughts? -- Lear's Fool 04:26, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
A possible suggestion: could we combine all 4 "publishing" parts (Biography, Diary, Conga Line, and ALP Essay) into a single section and shrink it all down? The Diary already has its own separate page, so a single paragraph should suffice (for example, we definitely don't need to discuss the bidding war here). Conga Line doesn't even really deserve a mention, since all the line does is assert the publishing date; inclusion in the Further Reading section (which, as a side note, I think should be separated into a Bibliography and other reading section) is sufficient. This logically groups the "authorial" aspect of Latham's post-political life, and should help us manage the length of all of the parts. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:34, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Because this is negative information in a BLP, there is a strong burden on the person adding the information to demonstrate not only that it is well sourced (which it was), but that it has lasting importance for the subject of the article. That is, are some random remarks made by a politician in one interview of enough importance that they form a fundamental part of his biography, such that readers a year, five years, or a hundred years later should know about them? My gut feeling on those particular remarks is that they are not, and that they were added merely because they made the news recently. I can't imagine that these will be a lasting part of Latham's legacy, any more than the many hundreds of thousands of other things he's said (good or bad, smart or not smart) over the course of his past and future career. Remember, we're not a newspaper, and we're not just to cover something just because it can be verified. Otherwise, we'd include a paragraph or more on every interview Latham ever gave.
So, I guess that the first thing that would help establish whether or not it is important enough to meet WP:DUE is this--is the issue still being covered in the news now? Has it been picked up by an secondary or tertiary sources--that is, are large summaries of the election season focusing in on this particular interview as somehow having a large impact on the campaign? We need some evidence from sources that this is an issue of lasting importance. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:39, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
I've added a NPOV tag to this article. In numerous places it gives undue weight to unflattering events. In many cases the article goes out of its way to provide details that dominate the article and unduly weight the text towards a negative view of the subject. Our job is to summarize reliable sources not squeeze out every detail from every source and add quotes and drama. I'd be happy to go through each section on the talk page and discuss the appropriate weighting of information if needed. We can start first with the section on 2013 election (see below)-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
This section should be distilled to a single sentence IMO. There are 4 sources listed. The content in most of the sources is shorter than the text in this article. Something is wrong there IMO. Comments?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
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Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
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People keep POV altering an adjective describing Milo. If you can't play nicely with this adjective I'm putting it on top of the wardrobe until you all learn to behave. His attendance at this event is not particularly revealing or noteworthy in any case and I'd happily support anyone who wants to just remove the entire statement. Edaham (talk) 03:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
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I just put in that Latham is the first former federal opposition leader to be elected to a state parliament as I thought it was worth putting in.
In fact Latham isn't even the first former federal opposition leader to be suggested or speculated for a state parliament.
Alexander Downer was speculated for SA state politics in order to become the State Liberal leader and ultimately becoming Premier but none of that eventuated.
After losing the Opposition Leadership to Tony Abbott and then announcing his retirement, Malcolm Turnbull was suggested for NSW state politics in order to replace Barry O'Farrell as State Liberal leader and become Premier at the 2011 election before Turnbull changed his mind and stayed in federal politics.
Of course if he hadn't changed his mind, Turnbull would not have become Prime Minister in 2015.
Even before becoming federal Liberal leader for the first time, Turnbull was accidentally included in an opinion poll of preferred NSW Premier and showed him to be more popular than O'Farrell. 49.3.72.79 (talk) 07:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
I've removed a redacted version of Latham's tweet to Sydney MP Alex Greenwich, but it's since been added back so I'm adding this to the talk page. To be blunt, Latham's tweet (which reads, uncensored, "Disgusting? How does that compare with sticking your dick up a bloke's arse and covering it with shit?”) to me, provides very little encyclopaedic value given how excessively descriptive it is, and while Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED, that does not mean that all material, regardless of potential offence, should be included. I don't see the value of quoting Latham's comments directly here, especially given almost no Australian media outlet has published them in full. In the meantime, however, if it is to be quoted, I think they should be quoted in full, so I've removed the redactions on the article. But I've created this as I'm unsure if Latham's comments are worth including, as I think an explanation would suffice rather than a direct quote. LivelyRatification (talk) 00:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
I'm just being a stickler for doing things the right way. Any inference is OR. I am happy with the new source although I'm not sure it will withstand a trip to the RS noticeboard. Ratel 🌼 (talk) 10:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)