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Max Born converted to Lutheranism at some point in his youth; much later, if I am not mistaken, he joined the Quakers, together with his wife, Hedi. Neither fact matters much as far as his science is concerned, though I suppose the latter may be seen as having something to do with his pacifist activities in the postwar period. In any case, it is hard to see the use of classifying him emphatically as Jewish; as far as I know, he was raised in an assimilated family, and Judaism most likely tells us less about his personality and beliefs than either of the faiths he chose. His "race" in Nazi eyes is relevant in so far as it was one of his reasons for emigrating; other than that, it is hard to see what useful purpose the labelling serves. 132.204.53.60 22:08, 16 April 2006
Germany lost nothing, Germany still has the most scientific output in all of Europe. More than both France & Britain. Germany is still at the forefront of Engineering, who's making your cars? Jews flooding the US is NOT the reason it became a power. The reason it became a power was because of the Brain drain. The U.S inviting Germans, Russians, various other scientist and sometimes STEALING the work of others (Nikola Tesla) and claiming it as "American". Americans had almost zero to do with the nuke, it was German & Jewish scientist who formed the basis. Germans sent Americans to Space. Took its Auto industry off the ground. The Russians that were invited to California practicaly made Silicon Valley. America became a "Power" because it slapped citizenship on Europeans so fast without even giving them a proper trial (as what it was with the Nazi Scientist at NASA). America became a world power because it became the "Land of oppurtunity". However that time seems to be over, with each and every passing year.
Today the United States is drowned in debt. Today the immigrants flooding the country are NOT European entrepeneurs or scientist, they're poor folks from the 3rd world looking for a better life. Today the United States consumes and imports more than it Exports (The US is x10 the size of Germany, with x3 the population, yet Germany is tagging right behind the United States tale, the difference is Germany exports just as much as it imports). The US is on the verge of collapse. Your country is only stable if it keeps spending more & more money. This does nothing to help the problem, it may prolong the inevitable but it also digs the hole deeper.
And also for the record? if you look at the graph of human contribution? The US (or North America for the matter) has not surpassed either Germany, France, Scotland or England in terms of inventions. All 4 countries on the graph completely dwarf the contributions from America. America is "The land of big corporations", like Japan America doesn't do much inventing. What America does is take already existing inventions and mass market them. Most of the so called "American inventions" on the list, weren't invented by Americans.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:6462:1628:77FE:1ACA (talk) 09:00, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Max Born is my great grandfather, olivia NJ is my aunt, i am from australia & a musician & photographer like his daughter Irene Newton -John. this web site has opened my eyes to many of my grandfathers talents, I have many letters from the 30's - 50 between him & Einstien thats all. Brett goldsith
Let's begin the discussion per the protocol. --Ancheta Wis 05:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There is not the slightest doubt tHat Born was born Jewish (inevitable pun); there are plenty of references to that effect. He was therefore a Jewish scientist. The fact that he ceased to practise is irrelevant; so did Einstein.--Poetlister 16:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I take an interest in this business of identity as I look Jewish though I am not I wonder if those Jews who ceaselessly 'reclaim' Jews ever realise they are doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis did-and were the cause of Born leaving Germany in the first place People like Born were totally assimlilated into Germany.They had cut their religious connections,had proud German names,often didnt-like Freud ,have their children circumcised.Their language (which is considered to be responsible for structuring the brain) was German The education that made them and their cultural loves and entire outlook was German. And of course ,they fought and died bravely for their country Germany in World War One fighting the British and French There suddenly arose a party that believed that anyone tainted by a singe drop of 'Jewish blood' was stamped remorselessly as Jewish.Such people if sensible got out of Germany quickly.This Nazi period lasted merely twelve years -less than Mrs Thatchers Premiership Today its interesting that Jews now endlessly search out the Jewishness of anyone they think may be Jewish irrespective of the persons wishes or desires. YOU ARE A JEW! they scream -as fiercely as any fanatical Nazi. I am always surprised that modern Germany does not reclaim these Jewish scientists as their own.Born and Einstein were NOT Jewish scientists -they were patriotic loyal German loving GERMAN scientists-Einstein rushed back to become a professor at the Berlin Academy of Sciences in 1916-in the middle of WW1-when Germany was the most hated country in the world. I suppose German guilt over the Hitler years prevents this I doubt if Born -or Einstein- ever seriously considered themselves Jewish only patriotic Germans Indeed they probably regarded the Jewish religion as something middle eastern and primitive that they wanted nothing to do with. In fact -I would ask the question-is it possible for any Jew to stop being classed as Jewish?-or are they despite their protests branded forever by Jews as Jewish? .Now that IS racism!!! Incidentally can we get off this boring Nobel Prize stuff-Born will go down in history surely as being the grandfather of Olivia Newton John. Now thats really something-incidentaly one of the most beautiful desirable heavenly women in the world actually looks a bit like him-did she meet him?
P.S. I dont like Germans
--Sukkoth 06:01, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Just two comments on that:
Assimilation did not lead to survival. Neither did the relative lack of assimilation (or rather its slow pace) in some provinces of Poland, say. This does not mean that assimilation was not a fact.
You are probably right when you imply that the Holocaust made Zionism (and anti-integrationist positions) more popular, at least for a while; this would not seem to be relevant for the biographies of individuals who lived most of their lives before the war, however. (It would not seem to be relevant when it comes to many post-war biographies, for that matter.)
As far as is Einstein is concerned - you are right, but that does not really concern the subject of this biography. Einstein was clearly a Zionist, if one of a somewhat romantic mold; as far as any of us know, Born was not a Zionist, or dreamed of being one, any more than he was a Confucianist. Feketekave (talk) 23:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
It amazes me to see how history is covered up by the ignorants. Here in the article it says that Max Born was "instrumental" in the development of quantum mechanics I'm sorry, but he was much more than that. Plain and simple, the face of modern quantum mechanics was chieseled out by two men, Werner Heisenberg and Max Born, I know Born was Jewish I'm not sure if Heisenberg was, but regardless, it was Heisenbergs brilliant insight to formulate a full quantum theory in his mind, and it was the brilliance of Born to recognize its mathematical form. Without this serendipitous symbiosis, without either man, I wonder how long it would have taken to come up with quantum theory. Modern books with their mention of Schroedinger's equation make it look like Schroedinger invented quantum mechanics. Two facts are well known: 1) Schroedinger came out with his version of QM 1 year after the Heisenberg-Born version. 2) He came up with it in response to Heisenberg's theory because "he did not like Heisenberg matrix formalism". Finally, it is also known that, to the end of his life, Schroedinger never understood quantum mechanics as we presently understand it and that its Max Born's interpretation of the wavefunction as a probability that we use today. Maybe people just like his cat (Schroedingers) and that's why he's so predominant in the books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.94.41.41 (talk) 14:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
The following infobox has been removed from the page. Please discuss to reach consensus for its inclusion or removal.bunix 14:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
The final sentence of the second paragraph under "Career" currently reads thusly: Based on this, one could say the Nobel Prize in Physics awarded to Heisenberg in 1932 should have been jointly awarded to Born.
This seems fairly subjective, really, and might be re-worded. As I am not intimately familiar with the details of this particular Nobel Prize and the extent of Born's contribution to the work, but a more neutral wording might be something along the lines of "Born's contributions were important in laying the foundation of Quantum Mechanics, for which Heisenberg won the 1932 Nobel Prize."
-0x0077BE (added anonymously because I am not at home)
--0x0077BE
This article says that Principles of Optics is a translation of Born's German-language Optik, but in the preface to Principles of Optics Born and Wolf explicitly say that it is not a translation, but an entirely new book: "In consequence it was felt that a translation was hardly appropriate; instead a substantially new book was prepared..."
24.250.23.48 17:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)Anonymous
Max Born seems to have had a mental break-down in about 1943. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.4.21 (talk) 08:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The "ethnicity" and "religious stance" fields are odd; I have not seen them in other articles. Feketekave (talk) 19:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
They also appear in the article on Einstein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.4.21 (talk) 10:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
This page, especially the career sections, needs to be divided up with more structure (sections, subsections, etc.). The big blocks of text are not inviting to read. Njerseyguy (talk) 22:55, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
This segment from Early life and education seems awkwardly, and perhaps inaccurately, worded: "...during which time Hilbert’s intellectual largesse benefited Born’s fertile mind." Inaccurate, because largesse has a connotation that is not convincingly read from Hilbert's page. 146.153.144.35 (talk) 13:21, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
The article reads "stripped of his professorship". A new exhibition displays what appears to be the letter of dismissal: <http://theconversation.edu.au/hitlers-letter-to-the-father-of-quantum-mechanics-3772?utm> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/cambridgeuniversity/sets/72157627823325704/with/6214061676>. As I translate it:
IN THE NAME OF THE REICH
- At your request, I relieve you with effect from the end of March 1935 of your official duties in the Faculty of Science and Mathematics of the University of Göttingen.
- I acknowledge your academic achievements and thank you for the services that you have provided to the Reich.
- Berchtesgaden, 23 July 1935.
- Führer and Reich Chancellor [signed "A. Hitler" and witnessed]
- Certificate of retirement for ordinarius Professor Dr Max Born in Göttingen
As I read it, he was required to retire. It also looks like the date of emigration from Germany should be 1935, not 1933. --Wikiain (talk) 02:27, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
After Heisenberg arrived at the idea that the elementary particles are to be seen as different manifestations, different quantum states, of one and the same “primordial substance,” Born recalled 6th century BC Anaximander in calling this substance apeiron.[1]
((cite web))
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--Pawyilee (talk) 08:33, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is the source:
Nancy Thorndike Greenspan (2005). The End of the Certain World: The Life and Science of Max Born : the Nobel Physicist who Ignited the Quantum Revolution. Basic Books. pp. 58–62. ISBN 9780738206936. "Max later traced his reluctance to his father, who had taught him not to believe in a God who punished, rewarded, or performed miracles. Like his father, he based his morality on his "own conscience and on an understanding of human life within a framework of natural law." ...Born, in fact, was no longer Jewish. His mother-in-law had worn him down. In March 1914, after a few religion lessons in Berlin, he was baptized a Lutheran by the pastor who had married him to Hedi. As he later explained, "there were...forces pulling in the opposite direction [to my own feelings]. The strongest of these was the necessity of defending my position again and again, and the feeling of futility produced by these discussions [with Hedi and her mother]. In the end I made up my mind that a rational being as I wished to be, ought to regard religious professions and churches as a matter of no importance.... It has not changed me, yet I never regretted it. I did not want to live in a Jewish world, and one cannot live in a Christian world as an outsider. However, I made up my mind never to conceal my Jewish origin.""
You can find this source in Google Books: The End of the Certain World: The Life and Science of Max Born Ninmacer20 (talk) 03:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Hawkeye7. I appreciate the grammatical corrections in my edit to this article. I'm admit that I'm not very good with my Grammar/syntax in English. The reason why I posted this source was because of other users that thought that my additions to this article were speculative (despite the citation being there). The source/link was just to show other users that my additions are cited in a reliable resource. Anyway, the reason why I included this information in the first place was because I thought it would be better to state the reasons for Born's conversion to Lutheranism (despite resisting it) in the first place. Ninmacer20 (talk) 05:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Brin Newton-John is said to be English in the text but could be viewed as Welsh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 (talk) 08:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
User 190.74.252.196 has removed "magna cum laude" without explanation. It may have looked like an error, but in Germany PhDs have been awarded magna cum laude and summa cum laude. Someone with access to the source please confirm either way.--Wikiain (talk) 03:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The Early Life section says "At Göttingen he found three renowned mathematicians: David Hilbert, Felix Klein and Hermann Minkowski. Very soon after his arrival, Born formed close ties to the latter two men." However, the rest of the section describes what might be called close ties only with Hilbert and Minkowski, and little but contention with Klein. Perhaps the mathematicians' names appear in the wrong order, or perhaps the section is otherwise misleading. I cannot resolve this inconsistency myself, but perhaps resolving it would interest someone more qualified. Ornithikos (talk) 23:35, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
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In 1882, Breslau was a town in the German Empire, not in Germany. --84.152.8.20 (talk) 14:09, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Born-Haber cycle's page claims it was developed in 1916, whereas Born page says they first met on 1918 but doesn't give an actual year. Which one is it? 187.225.228.18 (talk) 02:08, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
Born is famous for asking Einstein something like "in your theory, what is the speed of gravity?" I'd like to know when this question was asked and especially, WHAT was Einstein's answer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.61.186.157 (talk • contribs)
With hindsight, we know it is c: (See Roberto Torretti (1983) Relativity and Geometry: Foundations and Philosophy of Science p.181. ) Einstein answered Born in 1913 in Vienna. This was before Einstein published his field equations for General Relativity. --Ancheta Wis (talk | contribs) 22:42, 3 August 2019 (UTC), 09:56, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
JÜRGEN RENN (2015) Einstein’s 1913 Vienna Lecture: Modeling Gravitational Theory on Electrodynamics
THANK YOU SO MUCH Ancheta (err, the links are not giving the answer rightaway....)
Oops sorry, I see the page 181 now. Well, Einstein's answer to this VERY IMPORTANT question seems extraordinarily SHY : "...in case the disturbance... are infinitely small..." !!!! As you know, in Cosmology, the 'disturbances' (i.e. masses) are not infinitely small....
Thanks Hawkeye7 for the new link. I see the beginning of the same answer on the end the first page of chapter 3 only. The following pages are not displayed. Now the title of this chapter is about Gravitationnal Waves. I don't think Born's question was about GW but about GRAVITY, different things. Having this question put in this chapter suggests me Galina Weinstein is confusing the two things. I am also aware that Einstein's answer is actually confusing.
NO sorry, there are not (indeed) the same thing. Gravity keeps you on Earth surface. Do gravitational waves keep you on your feet? Other example: Einstein predicted the existence of gravitational waves. Right? Einstein predicted the existence of gravity? still right? LIGO and Virgo are GW detectors, are they gravity detectors? I understand Born and Einstein were good friends and in permanent contact. I'd like to know what they were exactly discussing on that day.
A last word: I think Born's question is about Gravity. Anyway, one would wait for an answer in the form: "In my theory, the speed of gravity is /infinite/c/larger than c/smaller than c/whatever" and it is really surprising that Einstein's answer clearly looks like a way-out/subterfuge (?). Especially because Einstein is famous for SEEING things first and putting them in mathematical form second. Maybe I will read Weinstein's (W-Einstein ? lol) book but I'm not sure I will learn something about this curious event in it. stefjourdan
¡Hi guys, hello girls! Quote from "Later life" section:
In his Nobel lecture he reflected on the philosophical implications of his work:
I am confused, this is the Born's Nobel lecture and I can not find that text! (or maybe I am wrong)--Jimmy Olano (talk) 13:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Suggestion: Reword lead to: "Max Born (...) was a widely influential German physicist and mathematician who was awarded the 1954 Nobel Prize in Physics for his pivotal role in the development of quantum mechanics. Born won the prize primarily for his contributions to the statistical interpretation of the wave function, though he is known for his work in several areas of quantum mechanics as well as solid-state physics, optics, and special relativity. He is also known for supervising the work of several notable physicists in the 1920s and 1930s."
Or something similar. I request this for multiple reasons. There shouldn't be links inside of quotes, it is odd to begin and end talking about his contributions to QM and leave a stubby middle sentence for other contributions, and I think it flows better. Also we should mention relativity as he has relativistic concepts named after him and it is mentioned elsewhere in the lead. I also think the paragraph could be expanded a tiny amount, but that's not really necessary. Footlessmouse (talk) 10:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi! What an interesting article. I have noticed that in the lede it says "First World War" relating to his service in that war, and then says "World War II" when saying about his nationalization. Shouldn't it be either "Second World War" or in the first place "World War I" as style?. Thanks. And I hope to be understood :-) CoryGlee (talk) 00:23, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Not only does it read like a poor translation, but it doesn't actually say WHOM he married - we have to guess ... Why is it important that he is remotely related to some 3rd-rate 'comedian' called Ben Elton??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.79.153.6 (talk) 09:32, 9 August 2022 (UTC)