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He was born in England how was he an Australian - he would have been called a pom by the Aussies Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:36, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
I initially had some doubts about Howse's entitlement to the KSA medal - however this source shows quite clearly that he was entitled to it (with two clasps). The entitlement for the KSA (from it's wiki page) is that it was "awarded only to those troops who fought in 1902, and who had served for 18 months. Service did not have to be continuous, but even with continuous service the recipient would have had to serve from December 1900 to have 18 months service before the war ended in May 1902". Howse arrived in South Africa in early 1900, and was there in 1902, with a period in the middle where he returned to Australia. Whilst I can't confirm the length of time he spent away (from South Africa), I gather that the ref above is correct. PalawanOz (talk) 10:10, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Pdf, I may be wrong, but I do not see how you can really compare Howse's medal set to Badcoe's, due to the fact that the missing medals for Badcoe's set were not established until after the man's death, while, of course, the KSA medal was awarded during Howse's life time, and service in fact. You state that I may not be considering other factors, and, yes, I may not be, but you appear to not be considering the information that I posted above stating that from the brief timeline of Howse's life at the AWM site it specifies that Howse was in South Africa for a maximum of fifteen months during the Boer War, and not the required eighteen for the KSAM. As for what PalawanOz stated, David Underdown has already addressed this issue. The reference states in one section that he was awarded the KSAM, while in another it states only the QSAM, with a differing number of clasps. Personally, I do not believe the reference is to be trusted, due to the fact that it contradicts itself. That is another reason why I no longer support the inclusion of "Honours and Awards" sections, as it can be difficult to determine whether a person was awarded a medal or not. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Gents - one important thing to note is that the www reference above lists the information contained in a variety of hardcopy published sources - and the first extract listed is from 'Murray' - in full, this is the "Official Records of the Australian Military Contingents to the War in South Africa", compiled and edited for the Department of Defence by Lt.-Col. P. L. Murray. 'Murray' is seen as _the_ authority for information on personnel who took part in the South African war(s). Since Murray lists Howse as receiving the KSA medal, I am very happy to believe that he did so. Also, the absence of any particular medal from a physical medal set does not mean that the recipient was not entitled - the medal may have been lost, or even that the medal set itself was split for some reason (different medals to different children following someone's death for example). A physical medal set shows you the medals that someone definitely received, but is no guarantee of a complete set. PalawanOz (talk) 02:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
I managed to get my hands on a copy of Murray's Records of Australian Contingents, which does indeed list Howse as receiving the KSA medal with two clasps (on page 18). However there are some inconsistencies which need further research. The following details are listed on page 16:
Assuming that Howse left with the main portion, then he had 295 days in theatre.
But.... (there's always a but)... this site lists shipping movements, and states that Lieutenant N R Howse of the NSW Medical Staff arrived in Southhampton Water (ie, England) on the evening of 18 Dec 1900, having left Cape Town on 28 November 1900 as an invalid on the Orotava. The same site also notes that the Orient left Cape Town for Australia and New Zealand 13 December 1900, and does not list Howse in the NSW Medical Staff contingent.
Assuming Howse arrived in South Africa on 22 Feb 00, and left on 29 Nov 00, then he had 281 days in theatre. I would prefer to validate this detail before committing to it.
To continue on page 16 of Murray:
This gives Howse 111 days in theatre, of which 74 days was within the KSA medal entitlement period (up to 1 June 1902)
As a result - Howse had either 369 or 355 days (12.3 or 11.8 months) in South Africa.
From those dates, Howse failed to meet the 18 months minimum service time for the KSA medal. Also - he is listed as receiving two clasps (South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902), however from the dates given, he could not have been entitled to the 1901 clasp.
Summary so far - I am beginning to doubt his entitlement to the KSA, however I have not seen absolute proof of Howse's arrival and departure dates in South Africa (only his contingent arrival and departure dates). I will check the War Memorial records in a few weeks, and also try and access the Sydney Morning Herald archives for the period (which should list arrivals/departures). PalawanOz (talk) 09:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
The plot further thickens.... I have now found a copy of Australian Awards of the Kings South Africa Medal, a paper prepared by Major R. Clark and published by the Military Historical Society of Puckapunyal (date unknown, but from the look of it, probably early 1980's as it has been prepared on a typewriter using military formatting from that era). The editor makes a disclaimer at the start that due to a number of factors, he would "make no foolish claim that this roll is perfect". With that in mind, I can not find Howse listed in the roll. I can, however, find more than one member of the NSW Army Medical Corps (who subsequently served in the Commonwealth contingent) - eg, WO J.F. McEwen and Sergt C. White. There is also a note under the Commonwealth roll to the effect:
In addition to those listed above on the AAMC Roll a further 17 individuals were issued medals without bars. These medals were required to be returned in 1906
Additionally, contained in an annex to the paper is a copy of the Military Forces of the Commonwealth, General Order 1902 No. 208, issued on 7 November 1902. That order published an extract from Special Army Order dated 29th September regarding the issue of the King's South Africa Medal.
4. In interpretation of this rule [regarding dates of service and eligibility] that actual period of absence from duty, either at Home or in South Africa on account of wounds or sickness directly attributed to service in the Field, will be allowed to count to make up the period of eighteen months.
This information is also available here.
Noting the information I previously posted from this site regarding Howse leaving South Africa separate to his contingent as an invalid on the Orotava, it is a possible conjecture that under the provisions of the quoted paragraph 4, Howse could have been entitled to the KSA medal due to his time as an invalid in England. As I said... the plot thickens. It may well be that the only way to be sure of the entitlement would be to examine Howse's personal file - I will see if I can do so whilst at the AWM. PalawanOz (talk) 00:36, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I have just got hold of two biographies that provided a wealth of information - Anzac Doctor by Stuart Braga and Neville Howse by Michael Tyquin. From those, it appears clear that Howse was not entitled to the Kings South Africa Medal. In fact, Braga actually notes on page 76 the confusion caused with Murray "erroneously indicating that Howse received the Queen's Medal with six clasps and the King's Medal with two clasps". I will amend the main page with the information contained in the two biographies. PalawanOz (talk) 07:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
(reproduced from User talk:Pdfpdf)
It's arguable whether it's a rank or the name of the appointemnt - from other gazette entries I've seen it does surgeon-general does at this time seem to have been used for anyone in the Medical Corps ranked higher than colonel (compare with the naval practice which still distinguishes those in medical and dental professions as surgeon-(rank)), but I was in two minds as to whether to change that one or not at the time, so I'll leave it alone. David Underdown (talk) 14:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
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