Why treat his ethnicity and nationality different in comparison to most famous people on Wikipedia?

I don't understand why we don't write something similar to Einstein's description "was a German-born theoretical physicist". Nikola Tesla was quite clearly born in the Austrian empire and later became an American citizen. Why not detail his origins in the "early years" section and instead write "Nikola Tesla (...) was an Austrian-born inventor..."? Heck, considering the controversies (especially considering he harborer feelings for Croatia as well and the argumentation of American citizenship considered to be supreme over other citizenship statuses) why not just skip it all togheter? And mention his ethnicity, nationality and citizenship in the "early years" section? Prophet of Truth and Knowledge 21:56, 14 January 2019‎ (UTC)[reply]

Prophet of Truth and Knowledge Per lead guidelines, mentioning ethnicity is done only when it had barring on that particular individual and/or his work. I'm not seeing which barrings Tesla's ethnicity had to his work. He was born in Croatia under Austrian Empire, and later gained American citizenship. His ethnicity as a barring factor is only pushed by pro-Serbian circles. In most of the books about Tesla, only a single mentioning of his ethnicity is done without any further analysis or even a reference. 141.136.252.159 (talk) 22:08, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nationalistic edits

Moved from Talk:Nikola Tesla § Nationalistic edits

per Talk page and 16 June 2015 RfC consensus. --ChetvornoTALK 05:13, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I object to this edit, forced into the article for the third time today by Notrium (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This edit seems like the nationalistic POV pushing that has beseiged this article for years, non unlike the single purpose editing of Asdisis. Notrium would be well-advised to stop edit warring and seek consensus for this edit on the sub-page devoted to that purpose.- MrX 🖋 00:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you accuse me of making nationalistic edits, you should have some kind of argument for that. And when you make any kind of edit, especially a revert, you should support that with a reason in the edit summary. You have not said why would my edits be "nationalistic" or controversial or in any way bad. MrX Notrium (talk) 00:22, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We have had many, many single purpose editors trying make Tesla more Serbian or more Croatian by adding obscure, unencyclopedic details to support their POV. When your edits resemble those, and when you edit war to force your POV into the article, it is reasonable to assume that you intent to push a nationalistic POV into the article. "Croatian Military Frontier" is an obscure, obsolete geopolitical division that has no relevance to the subject's life. The only reason for shoehorning it in is to make Tesla appear more Croatian. Oh, and you also changed the proper demonym "Serbian" to the diminutive form "Serb", which further supports the assumption that you intend to push a nationalistic POV like many before you.- MrX 🖋 00:58, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The military frontier is as important for an article about Tesla as, say, Northern Ireland would be important for an article about somebody from Northern Ireland. There was an RfC which concluded that info about the Frontier should not go to the lede, but why should it not go into Early years? Notrium (talk) 01:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's not an apt comparison, nor does it matter. The defunct military district has no relevance to Tesla's biography and does nothing but distract readers. Read WP:ONUS for why you' need to convince us that this obscure tidbit should be added to the article, not the other way around.- MrX 🖋 02:44, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with User:MrX. @Notrium: Tesla's nationality is an extremely controversial issue on this page. If you want to change any part of the article regarding it, you must get consensus first on Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity. The burden is on you, to justify the changes you want to make and get consensus, BEFORE editing the article. Your repeated edits, against consensus of 3 editors, is WP:EDIT WARRING and can get you blocked. If you continue I will take it to an administrator.--ChetvornoTALK 04:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Serb vs Serbian

Moved from Talk:Nikola Tesla § Serb vs Serbian

per Talk page and 16 June 2015 RfC consensus. --ChetvornoTALK 05:23, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

About the move: I think this does not belong here under Nationality and ethnicity because it is more about the words Serb and Serbian than about Tesla's ethnicity. We all agree Tesla was a Serb, but I am trying to explain that Serbian is not a synonym for Serb Notrium (talk) 10:17, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

About the Serb (srpski) vs Serbian (srbijanski) issue, you (MrX) are very wrong. Serb is not a diminutive form of Serbian (LOL, where did you get that from?), please peruse the Wiktionary links in the previous sentence. EDIT: since you complained that Wiktionary is not a reliable source, let it be noted that the Cambridge Dictionary and Merriam-Webster, for example, agree with me; Serbian is for things related to Serbia, not a general synonym for Serb.

Tesla was not Serbian because he had neither been born nor ever lived in Serbia. The same is true of his parents, you would probably need to go pretty far back to find one who was Serbian.

Note that even the Serbian wikipedia does not call him Serbian (srbijanski).

Saying that Tesla was Serbian implies that Smiljani was in Serbia, which is a blatant falsity. Notrium (talk) 01:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not that Wiktionary is a reliable source, but both Serbian and Serb in the adjective form broadly mean the same thing. Regarrdless, we follow reliable sources, not editor's person opinions. The construct 'Serb American' is awkward. If you want to continue debating this and try to gain consensus for changing the long-standing text, you will have to do it here: Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity per the notice at the top of the page.- MrX 🖋 02:55, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, they do not. See the links to other dictionaries that I provided above. MrX Notrium (talk) 10:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, Notrium, but the Oxford English Dictionary [1] supports MrX; it says that Serbian can mean either an inhabitant of Serbia or a synonym for Serb; a person whose ethnicity is Serbian. Your proposal to change the word from "Serbian" to "Serb" is a nonissue, and I oppose the change. --ChetvornoTALK 19:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nikola Tesla was CROATIAN and NOT Serbian

Moved from Talk:Nikola Tesla §  Nikola Tesla was CROATIAN and NOT Serbian

per Talk page and 16 June 2015 RfC consensus. --ChetvornoTALK 22:01, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The indisputable fact is that Nikola Tesla was born and raised in what is now the sovereign independent country of Croatia and had Tesla been alive today he would have identified his nationality as Croatian and NOT Serbian. It seems as if alot of modern Serbians are just trying to claim Nikola Tesla as their own because he was a great inventor and scientist. But the fact still remains that Nikola Tesla was born and raised in Croatia hence the article should be changed to represent his true nationality as CROATIAN.174.108.182.14 (talk) 21:50, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian, Austrian, Hungarian, but certainly not Serbian, however that can't be read in the article. 89.164.147.226 (talk) 12:15, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yugoslavia?- MrX 🖋 20:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Yugoslavian. But some people want to push his ethnicity to the article contrary to the fact that he was not notable for his ethnicity. 141.138.53.215 (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if Tesla had been born in Croatia he would be Croatian. Unfortunately, there was no country called Croatia when he was born. "Serbian" in the article refers to his ethnicity, not his nationality.- MrX 🖋 20:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is already established that he was born in the Croatia which was then a part of Austrian Empire. However, you don't like that so you keep it out of the article. The sources to the contrary are however visible in this thread. 141.138.53.215 (talk) 22:41, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is NO consensus, just stick to the indisputable fact that Nikola Tesla was born and raised in Croatia, hence he is CROATIAN NOT SERBIAN!! 174.108.182.14 (talk) 01:11, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This case is hopeless. Look at what they did to the last guy who wanted to include the next consecutive sentence from the same source that was already in the article that they didn't like. This is their usual MO. They ignore but when someone is more persistent, they group together, personally attack and push their POV. The previous discussion is a clear case. They cherry picked and pushed one sentence from the source while at the same time they pushed so hard to hide the consecutive one that explains the first one and completely contradicts their interpretation they provided about the first one. So don't get annoyed and write in all caps. This is how Wikipedia works. Plus you don't look credible when you get emotional. 141.136.223.166 (talk) 20:13, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To remind ourselves. The source says this : "Nikola Tesla was born in 1856 in Smiljan in the province of Lika in what is today Croatia. At that time Croatia was the military frontier district of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the area was sometimes referred to as the Krajina". This group of people pushed hard to get the first sentence into the article and at the same time pushed hard to hide the next consecutive sentence which explains what Croatia was at that time. 141.136.223.166 (talk) 20:24, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, you are right. However, you still shouldn't sock. The editors here were very rude to me when I just tried to help. If leaving that sentence out of the article makes them happy , just let them have it. Bilseric (talk) 09:25, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, if Croatia would have been independent country in 19th Century, it would not include Military Krajina , the part of A-Hu Empire where Tesla was born and most of the Serbs lived for more than 500 years that part was given to Croatia in Yugoslav era, so no Tesla is not or would not have been Croatian, second and most important ,if you really think that Tesla is not a Serbian (or Serb eventhough in our language is always only SRBIN ) then why did the Croats destroyed his House 2 times (once in 1941. and once in 1991.) and killed 11 members of his family,so again he is a Serbian, your hipocricy knows no boundaries

Nikola Tesla was a Croatian! Stop changing the article to say he was so-called “Serbian”! 2600:8801:2e00:1c62:8dc0:fd36:7773:348a

Nobody is changing anything, stop writing lies, this is not a trolling section like your croatian newspapers, here are only facts and the fact is that he was Serbian and you Croats have nothing to do with him

Main article tells the only fact and true story, Tesla was a Serbian , Croats killed his family during the ww2 , destroyed his house in 1941. and 1991. - therefore clearly shoved their opinion about him , so this falsification of history is not going to change anything , TESLA WAS A SERBIAN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.209.196.189 (talk) 10:10, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You have no sources to any of your claims. I put a lot of time to find a source that says that Military Frontier was a part of Croatia at the time Tesla was born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.136.230.134 (talk) 17:52, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And Croatia was part of Austro -Hungary and in A-Hu empire lived lots of nations including Serbs, which most of them lived in Military Krajina which was part of A-H empire not Croatia Just read the main article about Nikola Tesla and everything is gonna be clear ,even to you . You want sources ,go visit the graves in Smiljan where all of Tesla cousins lie killed by Croats and all of the graves are written in cirilic letter , is it not enough evidence for you ? You want some more ? Military Frontier was the border frontier where most of the people who lived there were Serbs , my ancestors not yours, there is enough sources on that subject even in Wikipedia , Do you want some more ? Here is the link that describes how many Serbs were killed during the WW2 in Smiljan by Croats and how many of them were Tesla"s relatives : http://www.politika.rs/sr/clanak/409594/Grobnica-gde-su-ustase-ubile-11-rodaka-Nikole-Tesle , I am gusseing you can read Serbo -Croatian , all those facts are well known ,there is a lot of serious Scientists that have allready written a lot of studies and did researches on this subject and then someone like you thinks that can change the facts by trolling and rewriting the history , sorry it is not going to happen, you should start accepting the fact that other nations lived in this territory that is now called Croatia , Serbs more than 500 years eventhough you"re trying your best to erase that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.209.196.189 (talk) 20:11, 15 August 2019 (UTC) You have double standards. Tesla was born in Austrian Empire. Austria-Hungary was formed 11 years after his birth. His ethnicity is Serbian. His place of birth is today in Croatia, but that is not make him Croatian the same way Ban Jelačić is not Serb just because he was born in place located today in Serbia. We should always use same ethnic standard and not change it based on present interests.[reply]

This is all unrelevant and unsourced. Tesla's birthplace is Military Frontier, which was a part of Croatia at that time (as the source says Croatia,Slavonia and MF constitute the same "land"). Graves, ancestors, your feelings are unrelevant for Wikipeidia. As for his ethnicity, there are sources for that but in my opinon none of them is based on primary sources, however those are good enough for Wikipedia, but note that there are other sources which claim otherwise whichs are of no less significance since no is based on primary sources. 89.164.202.76 (talk) 23:28, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing that is unsourced and unrelevant is your trolling ,Military Krajina was part of Austrian Empire ,not Croatia that in that time did not existed, and if it would existed it would not been in today"s borders, those borders were made in Tito Yugoslavia, those are all well known facts ,Graves and ancestors are extremly relevant especially for wikipedia, that is why your trolling can not pass in main article because it is simply not true ,I allready gave you one source that proves what the Croats did to Tesla family ,I can give you way more, but the point is that you trying to manipulate the truth and rewrite the history which is very hypocritical and you do that not because of Nikola Tesla, you do that to push nationalistic ideas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.209.196.189 (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am not aware of what is going on here, but from what I see just by overlooking, it is the same old story over and over again. So, time to repeat some history:
A- Tesla was born in Austrian empire.
B- Tesla was born in the Military Frontier, a special province within the empire created along the border with Ottoman empire to serve as defense against Ottomans. It was formed in 1553, Tesla was born in 1856, so it was not something "new" but rather a well established province with 3 centuries of existance by time Tesla came into life.
C- Military Frontier was multi-ethnic province ruled directly by Austria. Its ethnic composition was (probably intentionally) done in a way that neither Serbs, or Croats, or anyone else, would be majority.
D- Militaru Frontier was divided into sections, named geographically, corresponding to the nearest other province. The names of the sections missleadingly are nowadays being interpreted as if those provinces had some power over them, but did not. Tesla was born in the so called Croatian Military Frontier section, however, the province of Croatia-Slavonia had no authority over it. Right the opposite, Croatian parliamentarians spent much of their time fighting to convince the crown to give them some powers over the CMF.
E- During Military Frontier entire existance, Croatia, which was a neighbouring province, with its own borders and provincial powers which excluded the Military Frontier.
F- The multi-ethnic structure of the Military frontier and the fact that demographics indicated near half population as Serbian, made Tesla feel autochtone and identify with his birthplace. His father was a Christian Orthodox priest, and his mother was daughter of a Christian Orthodox priest, Orthodoxy made a vital role in being the center of Serbian communities within Austrian empire. There are no, neither there have ever been, Orthodox Croats. Both Serbs and Croats are South Slavs, what made the difference between them was clearly the religion, so obviously the religious leaders were the maximal exponents of their nationalities. As today, you can see Arab Israelies, but an Arab rabi? Within the Military Frontier, both nationalities had their "motherlands" bordering the MF, Serbs in the South with first Ottoman occupied Principality of Serbia, while Croats had Habsbirg occupied Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg) and later Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia. Both obviously desired unification each with its correspondent motherland.
G- But in meantime, and in reality, none of them had any authority over MF which was under tight Austrian control. From several sources we can see that despite vast South Slavic majority, in MF German was the official language and schools and highschools were lectured in German. All high ranks were held by Austrians.
H- Tesla was born and studied in Military Frontier. By the time he moved to Graz in 1875, he never got to live, study, or do anything in Croatia proper, it was all in Military Frontier. He even got the scholarship from the Miltary Frontier (that important MF was it even atributed scholarships).
I- So, Tesla was NOT born in Croatia (Croatia was a neighbouring province which held no control over Smiljan in the Military Frontier), neither lived or studied at any point in Croatia.
J- In Graz, Tesla started a "Serbian Cultural Club".
K- Tesla never lost his identification with the multiethnic Military Frontier he grew up at, and much later when it all became Kingdom of Yugoslavia, he clearly keeps this awareness of multiethnicity, now with Yugoslavia as sort of a "liberated" way, but never adbicates from his Serbian identification.
L- The so much cited "Serbian origin and Croatian homeland" being used as prove of his Croatianess is such a dishonest missuse as ignores all the rest written and the context itself. He wrote it on the occassion of the assassination of Alexander I of Yugoslavia who was the king of Yugoslavia from the Karadjordjevic royal dinasty which ruled Kingdom of Serbia and consequently after WWI continued ruling the then renamed Kingdom og Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (renamed Yugoslavia in 1929) and who was allways seen as simobol of Serbian dominance over Yugoslavia, thus disliked by vast majority of Croats, and eventually assassinated by Croatian terrorist organisation. Tesla was a major supporter of the royal family and pleased a Serbian royal family ruled the country, he wrote that text full of sadness and that citation taken from his text was supposed to mean that he was of Serbian origin despite by then his birthplace having become part of Croatian within Yugoslav internal division, and how there was people like him "from Croatia" that admired the king. It was supposed to represent unity and to deescalate the general feeling Croats either supported the assassination of the king. He actually highçight his Serbian identification with the intention of wanting to let know that there are people that considered that Croatia within Yugoslavia as homeland and were not all against the king, but rather in favor.
M- So this claims of Tesla having been born in Croatia are wrong, neither he was born, or raised, or studied ever in Croatia (unfortunatelly for these editors) Tesla was born and spent all his time while there within the Military Frontier, which was well different than the back then neighbouring Croatia, since in Croatia Austrians and Hungarians did allowed some local powers, while at Military Frontier didn´t allowed any Croatian authority, not even in the section called Croatian Military Frontier, which again, the name of the section "Croatian" is merelly geographical, not a possessive adjective as many so much want to make it look like.
N- The only argument is that Smiljan, Tesla birthplace, later became part of Croatia, but even the destruction of his house, church and other property by Croatian troops during their fight for independence demonstrates how real the awareness is that Tesla is the (unwanted) proeminent member of the (once) large Serbian minority in what became Croatia. Now, just because he is famous wanting to turn things up-side down is really cheating.
O- Any of these continuos attempts, as far as I saw, are all ased in the denial of at least few of my points, and I can source each and every word of mine. FkpCascais (talk) 08:07, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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