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Requested move 4 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 18:15, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Genderqueer → Non-binary gender identities – I want to preface this with this discussion has been had previously, and a number of those contributions have good points. I believe that trends have shifted towards the usage of non-binary/nonbinary vs. genderqueer in the last few years, and it's time to update the terminology that Wikipedia uses. I will attempt to prove that "Non-binary/nonbinary" is the WP:COMMONNAME using not only applicable Google trends, but also with legal precedent and major LGBT organizations' glossaries. Mooeena ● 💌 ● ✒️ ● ❓ 01:10, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would argue that Google Ngrams is not entirely useful in this case. Its data collection only goes up to 2008, a year when most states didn't even recognize same-sex marriage. In fact, a comparison to Google Trends shows that the terms "non-binary/nonbinary" only began to gain popularity in 2014, after the scope of Ngrams. Thus, I will look at patterns in Google Trends and Scholar instead.

The Google Trends graph for Genderqueer vs. Non-binary vs. Nonbinary shows that the terms "non-binary" and "nonbinary" combined have been more popular than the term "genderqueer" since approx. January 2016, and the term "nonbinary" alone has been more popular than "genderqueer" since February 2017. This graph also shows a preference towards "nonbinary" vs. "non-binary."

Now, I am aware that the term "non-binary" is used in other contexts, so I created a Trends graph of some of the most common non-gender related terms that appear alongside nonbinary. Note that the top 24/25 related queries for the search term "non-binary" are related to gender, and the one that isn't doesn't even show on the graph. I believe that this shows that the vast majority of uses of the term "non-binary" are in relation to the gender identity, but just to be cautious, I included the term "gender" alongside my search terms for the rest of my trend research.

Google Scholar stats:

Search term Any Time Since 2016 Since 2017
Gender Genderqueer 14600[1] 5720[2] 3450[3]
Gender nonbinary OR non-binary 12500[4] 6500[5] 4430[6]

These stats show a relatively even number of books/articles that use either term published in any time, but a notable trend towards "non-binary/nonbinary" in the past few years, with almost 50% more results in the last year.

A search for the terms in a NewsBank news database search (apologies as the link may be behind a paywall; I'm trying to take advantage of my library's research capabilities) produces 2382 results for "Genderqueer AND gender" and 8060 results for "Non-binary OR nonbinary AND gender." I'm unsure how to find the number of results for a Google News search or I'd include that as well.

Within the past year, with a few exceptions, US states and other regions have passed laws and regulations related to the legal documentation of non-binary people. These government bodies use either exclusively "non-binary/nonbinary" or mention "genderqueer" as an identity that an applicant might or might not identify as:

California, October 2017: "The bill would authorize a change of gender in the court judgment to female, male, or nonbinary." ... "An option ... would allow intersex people, like transgender and nonbinary people" ... "Nonbinary is an umbrella term for people with gender identities that fall somewhere outside of the traditional conceptions of strictly either female or male. People with nonbinary gender identities may or may not identify as ... genderqueer."[7]

Oregon, April 2017: "An Oregon circuit court issued an order stating that a particular individual's sex is non-binary"[8]

Washington D.C., June 2017: "To permit applicants for a District driver's license, learner's permit, or identification card to designate their gender as 'nonbinary.'[9]

Washington State, January 2018: "[X is] A gender that is not exclusively male or female, including, but not limited to, intersex, agender, amalgagender, androgynous, bigender, demigender, female-to-male, genderfluid, genderqueer, male-to-female, neutrois, nonbinary, pangender, third sex, transgender, transsexual, Two Spirit, and unspecified."[10]

New Jersey, proposed: "request for a change in gender to (female, male, or undesignated/nonbinary)"[11]

Australia, 2015? :"The X category refers to any person who does not exclusively identify as either male or female, i.e. a person of a non-binary gender."[12]

Ontario, May 2018: "You may request a change to your sex designation to F (female), M(male), or X (non-binary)"[13]

A number of LGBT organizations have either glossaries or handouts that define LGBT-related terms. These definitions have a lot of variance, but they tend to either use terms like "gender-expansive," identify "non-binary/nonbinary" as an umbrella term, or note that "genderqueer" is a specific term that infividual people may identify as:Trans media watch uses "non-binary"[14] GLAAD uses "non-binary and/or genderqueer"[15] HRC uses "gender-expansive" as an umbrella term and "genderqueer" as a more niche definition.[16] Stonewall considers "non-binary" an umbrella term.[17] PFLAG identifies "gender expansive" as the umbrella term and notes that while "genderqueer" may be used as an umbrella term, it "should only be used when self-identifying or quoting someone who self-identifies as genderqueer."[18] TSER identifies "non-binary/nonbinary" as the preferred umbrella term among the community.[19] So does The Trevor Project.[20]

I've also taken the time to cite some examples of the discussion of "queer" as a contentious term.[21][22][22] Not everybody rejects this term, but those who do do so vehemently, as it has been and is still used as a slur by some people.

I would like to briefly state that I suggested the title "Nonbinary gender identities" partially in order to clear up confusion about WP:Content forking with the Third Gender article. However, a name change would not inherently create a content fork, as their contents currently and will still address two separate things: one is a modern western gender identity, and the other is a historical term and a way to describe non-western cultures' gender expansive practices. I would advise creating start-level articles for "genderqueer" and "agender" after the move, as one was the most common term for many years and the other has recently gained legal recognition in Oregon. I volunteer to write them, but their existence is not particularly relevant to the current discussion. Mooeena ● 💌 ● ✒️ ● ❓ 01:10, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A WP:Clean start is not to be used lightly. It is very clear that one taking on a clean start should not edit the topics they did before. Their account should reflect behavior that does not tie them to their previous account (at least not in an obvuous way). Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:35, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's WP:Canvassing and WP:Meatpuppetry because you were brought here by a post on Twitter. It's not like Hologramvin's post on Twitter is neutral. If I express concern to my Twitter followers about something on Wikipedia, and they all flock here to address it, that is WP:Canvassing and WP:Meatpuppetry. It's WP:Meatpuppetry in the sense of "promote their causes by bringing like-minded editors into the dispute." I meant to warn Hologramvin about WP:Meatpuppetry. So I also support closing this move discussion as tainted and as not abiding by Wikipedia's rules. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:04, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OR, alternatively, support move to "Genderqueer and non-binary gender" or something of the like. Maybe this would be the best course of action, given the arguments presented by the Oppose/Support people. We've done moves like this before, and we might want to do it here. (Otherwise, this chain of requested moves would presumably never end, in either direction.) Paintspot Infez (talk) 05:19, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Rainbowofpeace, there is no difference. See below. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:04, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've stated before that the term genderqueer specifically covers non-binary history, issues, and explicitly all of the other identities mentioned in the article. It is the term most often noted as the umbrella term for all of these gender identities. Here are the sources I pointed to in the 2017 discussion.
Sources using the term genderqueer over the years

1. This 2009 "Encyclopedia of Gender and Society, Volumes 1-2", from Sage Publications, page 402, states, "First widely used in the late 1990s, genderqueer is an identity adopted by individuals who characterize themselves as neither female nor male, as both, or as somewhere in between. [...] Genderqueer is an identity more frequently embraced by younger gender nonconforming people, ensuring that the crossing and blurring of gender lines will continue to become more visible and likely more accepted." The source goes on to cover the topic in depth, including taking note of expression, appearance and pronouns.

2. This 2012 "Transgender 101: A Simple Guide to a Complex Issue" source, from Columbia University Press, page 115, states, "We are going to start out with genderqueer because the term is growing in popularity to describe, for the most part, people who feel that they are in between male and female or are neither male nor female." The source goes on to talk about genderqueer issues.

3. This 2013 "Gender Identity" source, from The Rosen Publishing Group, page 16, states, "'Genderqueer' is a term growing in popularity. It refers to people who feel that they are neither completely male nor female but in between."

4. This 2014 "German Feminist Queer Crime Fiction: Politics, Justice and Desire" source, from McFarland, page 179, states, "The term genderqueer references practices and embodiments that do not exclusively inhabit the territory conventionally described as male or female or that fall outside of gender norms altogether."

5. This 2015 "What the Heck Is Genderqueer?" source from Slate states, "Genderqueer, along with the somewhat newer and less politicized term nonbinary, are umbrella terms intended to encompass individuals who feel that terms like man and woman or male and female are insufficient to describe the way they feel about their gender and/or the way they outwardly present it. The term genderqueer was originally coined in the 1990s to describe those who 'queered' gender by defying oppressive gender norms in the course of their binary-defying activism. Members of the genderqueer community differentiate themselves from people who are transgender (itself originally intended as an umbrella term), because that word has come to refer primarily to people who identify with the binary gender different from the one they were assigned in infancy." The source goes on to talk about genderqueer issues.

6. This 2015 "There's Transgender and Then There's Genderqueer" source from Newsweek states, "People who describe themselves as genderqueer often feel that the gender binary (boy OR girl, woman OR man) is too limiting to describe their experience of gender. [...] For many people, the concept of genderqueer remains something of an enigma. This is, in part, because 'genderqueer' means different things to different people. Some genderqueer people think of themselves as living between the binary genders; some as living outside the binary genders; and others reject the idea of binary gender altogether, seeing it as something to be challenged, stretched or played with. Genderqueer can enable individuals to flexibly explore their gender over time, experimenting and changing as they go, but it can also describe a steady sense of sitting somewhere in between the traditional binary boxes." The source goes on to talk about genderqueer issues.

7. This 2016 "The SAGE Encyclopedia of LGBTQ Studies" source, from Sage Publications, page 460, states, "The concept of being genderqueer is not currently well understood within most Western cultures. Genderqueer is a term that typically describes one of three gender identity categories: (1) an individual who feels their identity falls in between male and female, (2) an individual who may feel male or female at distinct times, or (3) an individual who rejects gender completely. The following terms may be used by individuals who feel that their gender identity falls somewhere in between male and female: gender variant, intergender, androgene, genderfluid and pangender (this list is constantly growing and changing, so these are several examples of a longer list). [...] Because there is a lack of popular culture understanding of genderqueer identity, most individuals who feel genderqueer do not have the terminology or the understanding of what is going on internally to communicate with others about how they are feeling regarding their gender identity."

8. This 2016 "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Healthcare: A Clinical Guide to Preventive, Primary, and Specialist Care" source, from Springer, page 8, states, "'Genderqueer'—an umbrella term that encompasses a wide range of genders. This term can include those who feel like they fit outside of a gender binary of male vs. female, as well as individuals who consider themselves to have multiple genders or no gender at all."

9. This 2016 "Sex, Sexuality, Law, and (In)justice" source, from Routledge, page 27, gives a glossary listing; it states, "Gender queer: Used by individuals who reject categories of gender altogether and wish to claim a space outside the traditional gender binary."

10. This 2017 "Affirmative Counseling with LGBTQI+ People" source, from John Wiley & Sons, page 217, states, "An individual who identifies as genderqueer is 'a person whose gender identity is neither man nor woman, is between or beyond genders, or is a combination of typical prescribed gender roles and/or expressions' (UCB, 2015, 'genderqueer'). [...] Genderqueer persons may also identify with terms such as bigender, androgynous, gender fluid, gender nonconforming, gender diverse, pangender, and/or nonbinary." The source goes on to talk about genderqueer issues.

11. This 2017 "LGBTQ Intimate Partner Violence: Lessons for Policy, Practice, and Research" source, from University of California Press, page 22, states, "[G]enderqueer [is] an umbrella term for gender identities other than male or female."

12. This 2017 "The SAGE Encyclopedia of Psychology and Gender" source, from Sage Publications, page 1934 states, "Genderqueer is a term that began to circulate within sexual and gender minority communities in the late 1990s and encompasses nonbinary gender expressions and identities. While gender is commonly conceptualized as feminine or masculine, with binary identities of women and men, genderqueer individuals defy and reconstruct these notions of gender and generate nonbinary gender identities and gender expressions. Being an umbrella term, genderqueer can take on different meanings for different individuals." The source goes on to address appearance/surgery issues and pronoun issues.

Where are all of the academic sources using the term non-binary or non-binary gender to cover all of the history, language, etc. for western gender identities that fall outside of the gender binary? I'm not seeing many. All this talk about Google Trends, and yet, except for the Google Scholar sources that happen to use the term "non-binary" or "non-binary gender" to address genderqueer and nonconformity issues, especially childhood gender nonconformity, there is scant academic usage for non-binary or non-binary gender when compared to the wealth that the term genderqueer has. A number of those Google Scholar sources are using "genderqueer" interchangeably or alongside "non-binary," "non-binary gender" and/or "gender nonconforming." Also note the Encyclopedia Britannica entry on the term genderqueer and its history. That encyclopedia does not have a "Non-binary" or "Non-binary gender" entry. For dictionary sources, "genderqueer" also prevails with regard to gender. The most academic material there is for "non-binary" material that actually is about gender, and is not about gender nonconformity as a whole, mixes in third gender material, which obviously already has a Wikipedia article. If we want to cover the supposed non-neutral-ness of the term genderqueer, we do that by locating reliable sources stating as much and covering it in the article, not by overriding our WP:Common name policy. The most that I would support is renaming the article "Genderfluid" or "Genderqueer and non-binary." But "genderfluid" isn't used as an umbrella term as much as "genderqueer" is, and it's sometimes used as subset of "genderqueer." And "Genderqueer or non-binary" and "Genderqueer and non-binary" are long-winded and suggest a difference, when sources overwhelming treat the two as synonyms or list "non-binary" under "genderqueer," for western gender identities. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:04, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
When using both Google Scholar and searching Google Books with merely the term "nonbinary" (no hyphen) only one result on the first page of Google Books was not about trans-ness or gender. I looked through the next several pages of results and it seemed only one or two of the other results were about coding. I feel your implied claim that when searching "nonbinary" that most of the searches involve programming and not gender is disingenuous.
Hologramvin (talk) 02:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This link shows the search of "nonbinary" (no hyphen) on Google Books. Once we get past page 2, we see that there are hardly any more uses of the term with regard to gender. And stuff like "Genderqueer: Androgyny, Atypical Gender Role, Audre Lorde Project, Bigender, Discrimination Towards Non-Binary Gender Persons, Fantasia Fair, Femme Co" quite clearly says "Please note that the content of this book primarily consists of articles available from Wikipedia or other free sources online." Whether or not most of those other sources past page 3 are about coding, which is just me repeating what Mathglot indicated, they are not about gender. As seen with this link, it's even worse for "nonbinary" when we do what WP:SET#Notability suggests and add the quotation marks around the term. If we look on Google Scholar at "nonbinary" (no hyphen), it shows a bunch of code results. Same goes for using quotation marks around the term. So tell me again how the implication is disingenuous. There is no implication. It just is what it is. Like I stated before (both in the 2017 move discussion and above), one gets better results when searching "non-binary gender" or "nonbinary gender," but those sources are not as rich as the genderqueer ones (taking the time to cover all of the history, language, etc. for western gender identities that fall outside of the gender binary), and enough of them use "genderqueer" interchangeably or alongside "non-binary," "non-binary gender" and/or "gender nonconforming," and are also about third gender identities, which has its own Wikipedia article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:35, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thespündragon, the way you are distinguishing makes no sense and is not supported by sources. And where are the reliable sources showing that "non-binary" or "non-binary gender" covers all of the terms noted in this article? And I mean specifically noting that each of these terms are covered by it? I've done my part times over with sources. Why isn't your opinion based on any of our rules? I advise the closer to rightfully ignore WP:ILIKEIT votes like yours. Since you are a new editor, I do cut you some slack on that, though. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your claim that Genderqueer is a specific gender identity that is a sub-branch of Non-Binary does not appear to be supported by sources. Can you please tell me what Genderqueer is and what exactly makes it different from non-binary?-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 00:32, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Per what I've argued before and above, there is no proof whatsoever that "non-binary" or "non-binary gender" is the more common term. All of the logical Google avenues -- whether we are looking past the sources talking about codes instead of people, or looking at Google Ngram or Google Trends -- indicate that "genderqueer" is the common name. The vast majority of academic sources certainly do. The argument regarding Google Scholar is flawed because (besides the code aspect) the Google Scholar sources that happen to use the term "non-binary" or "non-binary gender" are often using those terms to address gender variance as a whole, and especially childhood gender nonconformity, not the specific topic that the Genderqueer article is addressing. We obviously already have a Gender variance article. Some of those sources are also using "genderqueer" interchangeably or alongside "non-binary," "non-binary gender" and/or "gender nonconforming." People can see all of this by actually examining/reading the sources. The argument about laws is flawed per the fact that many or most of those laws don't actually use the term "non-binary." They use the term "X" or similar. It's more so the news sources using the term "non-binary" to explain "X" and similar, and those news sources are mainly focused on laws only. They are not focused on the history of the term, the different terms that fall under it, or the behaviors. And we already have a Wikipedia article for those laws. This article is not it. And I stand by my third gender argument. Anyone is free to see what I argued about that and why. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:32, 8 June 2018 (UTC) Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:50, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support My experience is in the UK and I accept things might be different elsewhere. I frequently hear people referring to themselves as non-binary but very rarely Genderqueer and if they do invariably they see it as a subset of non-binary. Non-binary is the overarching and common term in use - that should make it COMMONNAME. I'm not much impressed by claims about whats used in WP:RS in this case, generally I feel they are written by self appointed experts looking in with no real understanding of the importance of terms or media organisations using the more attention grabbing term. I am impressed by the list of examples where authorities have used non-binary, these show current and likely future dominance of this term. I would like to state that I was unaware of this move discussion until I stumbled on it earlier today and that I have not been canvassed. Furthermore you will see from my editing history LGBT issues are not my normal area. Lyndaship (talk) 17:58, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Lyndaship, whether you came here by way of canvassing or not, you are arguing based on personal experience...for which no proof exists. Above, in the move request template, we can see that the template states, in part, "Please base arguments on article title policy." So you discounting that policy, which WP:Common name is a part of, is why your vote should be discounted. The WP:Common name policy is based on what the preponderance of reliable sources state, not on personal experiences. And move requests are not based on "likely future dominance of [a] term." I'm disappointed not only by this move request having been tainted due to canvassing, but also due to the poor arguments for a move. So if this article is moved based on a head count, which goes against the WP:Consensus policy, or based on the personal experience reasons, I will take it to WP:Move review. The closer (TonyBallioni) who actually took the time to look at the evidence I provided in the 2017 move request had it right. And I don't see that much of anything has changed since then. So I'm not even up for a new move request, which would result in me (and others) arguing the same thing as before yet again. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:51, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let the closer form their own opinion about which votes are valid. Lyndaship (talk) 15:34, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Lyndaship I ask you what exactly is genderqueer if it is a specific form of non-binary? Many people say it's a specific gender identity and not a catch all but no one can tell me what it specifically is and what makes it different that Non-binary gender identities in general.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 00:32, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  1. All Google Trends searches are completely irrelevant to this Rfc. WP:COMMONNAME requires article titles to be based on independent, reliable English-language sources. Google trends is unrelated to published sources; it highlights the latest changes in user searches; i.e., it is based on data that anyone can enter—namely, your search query, and it privileges recent changes in search and leaves out most of recorded history. Trends says nothing about what sources are available, how many, or in what proportion; it only tracks search queries. This is entirely unrelated to the requirements of WP:COMMONNAME.
  2. There's a lot of misinformation above about what Google Scholar is or isn't saying. So rather than explain it, let's just list the top results for "nonbinary" and you can figure out the ratio of results having to do with nonbinary gender, compared to other nonbinary subjects:
Top 50 results on Google Scholar for nonbinary
  1. Decoding Algorithms for Nonbinary LDPC Codes Over GF(q)
  2. A 1.2 V 10b 20MSample/s non-binary successive approximation ADC in 0.13/spl mu/m CMOS
  3. Nonbinary quantum stabilizer codes
  4. Nonbinary quantum codes
  5. Sample-size calculations for the Cox proportional hazards regression model with nonbinary covariates
  6. Nonbinary stabilizer codes over finite fields
  7. Min-Max decoding for non binary LDPC codes
  8. Design and analysis of nonbinary LDPC codes for arbitrary discrete-memoryless channels
  9. The advantages of non-binary turbo codes
  10. Some properties of nonbinary error-correcting codes
  11. Low-complexity decoding for non-binary LDPC codes in high order fields
  12. Nonbinary LDPC coding for multicarrier underwater acoustic communication
  13. Transactions papers-constructions of nonbinary quasi-cyclic ldpc codes: A finite field approach
  14. Inferring duplications, losses, transfers and incomplete lineage sorting with nonbinary species trees
  15. Reconciliation with non-binary species trees
  16. [PDF] Non-binary BCH decoding
  17. New nonbinary sequences with ideal two-level autocorrelation
  18. Density evolution, thresholds and the stability condition for non-binary LDPC codes
  19. Construction of non-binary quasi-cyclic LDPC codes by arrays and array dispersions-[transactions papers]
  20. Nonbinary codes, correcting single deletion or insertion (Corresp.)
  21. Low-complexity, low-memory EMS algorithm for non-binary LDPC codes
  22. Efficient computation of EXIT functions for nonbinary iterative decoding
  23. A unified approach to the construction of binary and nonbinary quasi-cyclic LDPC codes based on finite fields
  24. Partition Coefficients, Static Deception and Deceptive Problems for Non-Binary Alphabets.
  25. Reduced-complexity decoder architecture for non-binary LDPC codes
  26. On combining Chase-2 and GMD decoding algorithms for nonbinary block codes
  27. On turbo decoding of nonbinary codes
  28. Architecture of a low-complexity non-binary LDPC decoder for high order fields
  29. Bubble check: a simplified algorithm for elementary check node processing in extended min-sum non-binary LDPC decoders
  30. Nonbinary Kasami sequences over GF (p)
  31. Construction of nonbinary cyclic, quasi-cyclic and regular LDPC codes: A finite geometry approach
  32. Polarization-multiplexed rate-adaptive non-binary-quasi-cyclic-LDPC-coded multilevel modulation with coherent detection for optical transport networks
  33. On SOVA for nonbinary codes
  34. Error control coding for multilevel cell flash memories using nonbinary low-density parity-check codes
  35. Efficient decoder design for nonbinary quasicyclic LDPC codes
  36. Data compression of correlated non-binary sources using punctured turbo codes
  37. Nonbinary social choice: An impossibility theorem
  38. Fast CMOS nonbinary divider and counter
  39. Non‐Binary Error Correction Codes
  40. Non-binary convolutional codes for turbo coding
  41. Two low-complexity reliability-based message-passing algorithms for decoding non-binary LDPC codes
  42. Nonbinary LDPC codes for optical communication systems
  43. Disk drive margining read channel by biasing log-likelihood ratios of a nonbinary iterative decoder
  44. Low complexity X-EMS algorithms for nonbinary LDPC codes
  45. Convergence of non-binary iterative decoding
  46. High-throughput efficient non-binary LDPC decoder based on the simplified min-sum algorithm
  47. Joint estimation and compression of correlated nonbinary sources using punctured turbo codes
  48. Non-binary polar codes using Reed-Solomon codes and algebraic geometry codes
  49. Trellis-based extended min-sum algorithm for non-binary LDPC codes and its hardware structure
  50. New upper bounds for nonbinary codes based on the Terwilliger algebra and semidefinite programming
Finally, your tabular Scholar data is flawed because you executed the wrong search, including in your "nonbinary" column, results which had both genderqueer as well as nonbinary in them. The correct search shows 7,580 results for nonbinary alone, not 14,600.
So can we dispense with the irrelevant Trends data, and the data-free analyses about Scholar data? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 02:10, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just realizing and crediting Flyer22 Reborn for covering most of this ground already, in her 19:35, 6 June comment above. Mathglot (talk) 02:26, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Mathglot, by "no data whatever showing that genderqueer has met the WP:COMMONNAME," don't you mean "no data whatesoever showing that 'non-binary' or 'non-binary gender' has met the WP:COMMONNAME"? I've demonstrated that "genderqueer" is the common name for the topic in reliable sources. As for Google analyses, yes, they can be faulty; this is why WP:Google hits uses caution on the matter. But that faultiness aspect doesn't stop Google analyses from being used in move requests (and in deletion discussions). Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Flyer22 Reborn, lol; yes, of course I meant that! Thanks for pointing out my error! Mathglot (talk) 06:19, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no indication from the academic sources I found indicating "genderqueer" is offensive. Several sources clearly show individuals using it self-referentially and it is also used in recent scientific papers.
  • A search of the term "genderqueer" finds 131 results, dated no earlier than 2004 and used as recently as 2018. The term is specific to social sciences and psychology, unlike "nonbinary" which is a broadly used term well outside the subject matter (see below).
  • Any searching for "non-binary" or "nonbinary" alone is problematic because it is too vague. The terms are used extensively in science to refer to almost any situation where there are more than two results, especially when there may have been an initial impression of only two results. It's predominately used in journals about Computer Science, Engineering, Mathematics, Physics and Astronomy based on my initial search. To combat this I added the search term "gender identity" to both.
  • A search for (nonbinary OR non-binary + "gender identity") yields just 69 results, with the earliest paper dated 2014.
  • The number of results per year for both terms has increased each year, with 22 for "genderqueer" and 19 for "nonbinary" in 2017. The "genderqueer" was consistently more frequent each year.
    Legitimus (talk) 12:41, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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  8. ^ http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Get-Involved/OAR%20072017/735-062-0013Final.pdf
  9. ^ "Nonbinary Identification Cards Amendment Act of 2017". Scribd. Retrieved 2018-06-03.
  10. ^ CNN, Emanuella Grinberg,. "Washington state offers third gender option on birth certificates". ((cite web)): |last= has generic name (help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  11. ^ http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills/S0500/478_S1.PDF
  12. ^ https://www.ag.gov.au/Publications/Documents/AustralianGovernmentGuidelinesontheRecognitionofSexandGender/AustralianGovernmentGuidelinesontheRecognitionofSexandGender.pdf
  13. ^ https://www.ontario.ca/page/changing-your-sex-designation-your-birth-registration-and-birth-certificate#section-2
  14. ^ http://transmediawatch.org/Documents/non_binary.pdf
  15. ^ http://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/GLAAD-Media-Reference-Guide-Tenth-Edition.pdf
  16. ^ Campaign, Human Rights. "Glossary of Terms - Human Rights Campaign". Human Rights Campaign.
  17. ^ "Glossary of terms". 8 August 2015.
  18. ^ "PFLAG". www.pflag.org.
  19. ^ "LGBTQ+ Definitions – Trans Student Educational Resources". www.transstudent.org.
  20. ^ "Glossary – The Trevor Project".
  21. ^ "Is queer an offensive slur?". 21 March 2018.
  22. ^ a b Higgins, Marissa. "Is The Word "Queer" Offensive?".
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Medical Term

What is the medical formal term for this condition? If gender dysphoria refers to those individuals who do not feel at home with their biological sex, what is the medical term for this form of condition? TorontonianOnlines (talk) 21:30, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Being genderqueer is not a medical condition but a social one, so there isn't a medical term for it. (Gender dysphoria isn't the exact same thing as being transgender, similarly; the former is medical, the latter is social). At least AFAIK. But this talk page isn't the place for general discussion like this. --Pfhorrest (talk) 22:50, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

adding a discourse/conflict section , adding more information

I propose adding a section about some of the common disagreements in the community. Just to acknowledge the differing opinions from all sides. I also want to add some information to the politics section about the recent things Trump has said about how gender will legally be defined. I plan to add some more sources to different parts of the article, especially the history section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sophieburke99 (talk • contribs)

I would not support additions to this article concerning things Trump has said on this topic recently, as it’s just his words and nothing real has happened. It would suffer from WP:CRYSTAL or WP:RECENTISM, as well as WP:NOTNEWS. Even with some remove in time, this would be the wrong article for that content.
As far as the “common disagreements”, can you add a bullet list of disagreement issues you see as possible candidates for inclusion? Mathglot (talk) 02:43, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nonbinary

Times have changed. Genderqueer is in the past, along with "colored" and other terms for groups of people that have fallen into disuse. Just because you may be seeing a lot of past references to genderqueer, anyone who is nonbinary or otherwise active in nonbinary circles will tell you how rarely the term is actually applied. Genderqueer is also meant to be much more of a political term than nonbinary when it IS used by some as an identity.

Also, gender identity and sexual orientation are different. "Queer" has mostly been used as a sexuality label. I, for example, am a nonbinary individual attracted most exclusively to cishets and therefore I don't feel as though queer would be the right label to describe me. Just like not all NBs are trans, not all NBs are queer, either. 2601:98A:400:82F8:E99A:2EFC:1631:FC2E (talk) 06:58, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We've been over this extensively, including recently. It's right there above for you to see, at #Requested move 4 June 2018. And when it's archived, I suggest you and others check the archive on it. I will add a FAQ on this at the top of the talk page. And it's time that I go ahead and add the history of the term material to this article and other stuff using the term genderqueer. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:29, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I and many nonbinary individuals will never accept genderqueer, yet there's no problem with referring to us as nonbinary. Is there some sort of agenda to use the word "queer"? I'm not queer! For me and many others, genderqueer and nonbinary will never be interchangeable. However, I don't see a problem of including genderqueer as a subset of nonbinary and I have no issue with anyone who identifies as genderqueer or is otherwise queer-identified.

Growing up, the term I was familiar with was androgyne or androgynous and I very often referred to myself as such. For myself, it served the same function as nonbinary, wherein a person could identify as a mix of both binary genders or neither or other. Genderqueer AND nonbinary both seem rather new to me, though nonbinary makes more sense as an umbrella term than genderqueer. Nonbinary may be newer than genderqueer, and genderqueer may have been used more extensively -- I'm not disputing that and it really doesn't make a difference to me. You just have to wonder why the term nonbinary was created if genderqueer was considered unanimously acceptable. I'm thinking it's because the genderqueer term is outdated and even offensive to many NBs. 2601:98A:400:82F8:2C02:8F1B:E5F3:3B8B (talk) 06:13, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Personal accounts are not WP:Reliable sources. And many terms have more than one word to describe them. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:18, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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