External links checked 2008-09-20. Two links revised. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC) |
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The last paragraph sounds somewhat Americo-centric.
"Immigration" to where?? Surely not all immigration does this...
I would change it myself, but am unsure of the facts relating to historical patterns of immigration to the USA
Aren't bin and ibn used as patronyms in Arabic? SDC 23:55, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your appreciation :) (my talk page)
Yes, its the same word, just diffrent prenuciasions :)
Best regards!
--Striver 18:03, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
--Striver 18:33, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
No mention of Bar- as a patronymic prefix? See: Hebrew_names#Names_of_Aramaic_origin. Also, though it's a nice idea for gender balance, I'm sceptical about the historical accuracy of Bat- as a patronymic... in any case, by definition, wouldn't that have to a matronymic? --HailFire 20:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Many ..... Scandinavian surnames originate from patronymics, e.g. .... Carlsson (son of Carl, e.g. Erik Carlsson)..... Other Norse cultures formerly used patronyms, but have since switched to the more Judeo-Christian style of passing the father's last name to the children (and wife) as their own.
This wording seems to point to two different phenomena. But actually it is the exactly same phenomenon, described in two different ways. --Troels Nybo 15:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
No it's not, it means if the father's last name were Fisk, his children (and possibly wife) would then inherit the last name Fisk. The first part means if his name were Carl Jenssen, then his children would be named Boy Carlssen, but as it states this is not really done anymore (not often outside of Iceland I guess) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.245.18 (talk) 02:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I think there's some complexity to this issue that isn't hinted at in the article. I found this [1]. To quote....
I think this is relevant but I'm not sure - does anyone else think this is useful? --82.152.176.20 14:04, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, very important. There is also a problem with the idea that Howell is Irish. The Welsh is Hywel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.201.204 (talk) 22:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
This article says:
While Icelandic name says:
What is correct?--Amir E. Aharoni 11:48, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
David Ben-Gurion is often cited as an example of the Hebrew "Ben-" patronymic, but it is actually not true. As easily seen in the article about him, his father's name was Avigdor. The source of the name "Ben-Gurion" is simply that it was similar to "Grün". I'd like to delete this example from the article, and I hope to think of a better example to put in its place. --Keeves 20:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
The talk page for matronymic says that that article was to be merged with this one, as of March 2005. The fact that it hasn't yet says something about its state of neglect. There should be some discussion of matronyms, either in this article or that one, if it remains, but I'll have to leave the details to people who know something about them. Msr657 11:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
In most Slavic languages, male and female children have different surnames - for example, Ivan Petrovich Pavlov wouldn't be called Pavlova, but Anna Pavlova wouldn't be called Pavlov (imagine if the dessert were named pavlov and not pavlova :). Is that patronymic or is it just on of those times where you'd give your kids different surnames? 203.167.171.197 04:52, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
This is the difference between male and female form of surname. Garret Beaumain 18:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
So, for instance, in Czech, the -ová ending on female last names has nothing to do with patronymics? Maybe this should be clarified with a see also Czech names or something.
The most popular slavic surnames are ov/ova, ski/ska, ich(ic), and in/ina why the in the article only appear ic?
The article claims "In Russia, the patronymic is an official part of the name, used in all official documents, and when addressing somebody both formally and among friends." In fact, the use among friends is comparatively rare and usually bears humorous (or ironic) connotation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.173.84.133 (talk) 19:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
In Russia using patronymic among friends may also be a sign of serious dissatisfaction and clear sign of estrangement and weakening of friendship.188.170.172.223 (talk) 09:37, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Mimokrokodil
Can some Russian expert explain the significance of the apparent patronymic Feodorovna which was given to several tsarinas of Russia on their marriage and conversion to Orthodoxy, even though their fathers were not named Feodor. According to the disambiguation pages for Alexandra Feodorovna and Maria Feodorovna, this name was given to TWO tsarinas named Alexandra, most famously the last tsarina whose father's name was Louis, and TWO named Maria, including the second-last tsarina whose father was King Christian IX of Denmark. Why were all four of these tsarinas given the patronymic Feodorovna which seems to imply daughter of Feodor? Who was Feodor?? Dirac66 (talk) 20:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC) Dirac66 (talk) 02:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
This question has now been answered at Talk:Tsaritsa by RossF18. Dirac66 (talk) 16:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Feodor is the Saint of Russia so all the tsarina who are not in the Russian Orthodox Church are going to choose the name "fëdorovna"
Does the common Turkish name ending -oglu indicate a patronymic name? What about the Armenian -ian or -yan? Dirac66 (talk) 03:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Contesting a recent revert. This doesn't belong in Category:Surnames (note the plural, for "instance of"), as this is not a surname itself. This doesn't belong in Category:Naming conventions, as this is not a formal standard of some kind.
Rather, it belongs in Category:Names, the parent of both. (It's the actual given and surnames there that need to be moved into appropriate branch categories. I'll work on it.)
--William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Instead, created Category:Human names to gather all these specific definitions.
--William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:31, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
How about Johnson or Richardson and so on0?Chrisrus (talk) 00:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
This makes my blood boil, there are loads of Surnames originating in England used in other countries and they don't get a saying, everyone thinks Thompson is of Scottish origin WRONG Gaelic doesn't use the word son in a patronymic surname they are as the article says Mac, Mc, and O, Thompson is old English origin for son of tom, English patronymic surnames are everywhere such as Harrison, Johnson as about Richardson as above, Nelson, Anderson, simpson, hewson and so on109.154.13.131 (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
What do they do in Iceland, for example, if the father is unknown? Readers of this article want to know. Chrisrus (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I just read an article that said -ski was a Polish patronymic:
"-ski, -sky: A Polish surname suffix, often written in German as -sky; thus, Kaminsky, Loschitzky. Frequently used with a patronymic to denote “son of’; thus, Adamski, Jakubsky, Janski." (German (Eastern Pommern) variations on that are -ske, -zke, and -schke.)
Does anybody know if that is correct? Thanks
Source: Internal Dialectical Clues in German Surnames by Theola Walden Baker http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mstone/dialectical.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.37.250.244 (talk) 17:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I renamed the heading "Turkic" to "Turkish": this section apparently deals only with the Turkish language in Turkey, not the much more heterogeneous Turkic languages -- I have no clue about the patronymic practices of the many non-Turkish groups of Turkic peoples and I think that more detailed information would be needed for a blanket "Turkic" heading. 62.147.25.47 (talk) 15:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
A comment. The section on Ireland does not address the continued used of patronymics in the Irish language. It only discusses the genisis of surnames via use of prepositions that convey lineage patronymically. It is correct to note that the Irish "Mac" in the surname McBride is patronymic in derivation, but other patronymics are still used in Irish-speaking Ireland. Example is the suffix "-ín" - a boy named Pádraig who is the son of Seán is sometimes called "Pádraig Sheánín" ("Sean's Patrick") without the surname. Unlike the surnames of patronymic derivation, this is an actual living use of an actual patronym, and should be actually included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.221.210.74 (talk) 17:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
The term "Family Names" is defined in this article precisely because of this long-standing confusion in the article. In Iceland, Family Names are rare (and I thought there used to be a cite for this. Perhaps in the main article?) - patronymics are used as last names. The terminology in the edited sentence IS correct. EBY (talk) 21:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Per Alatari's argument that anything unsourced for over 6 months should be deleted - that would mean about 90% of current article - thus this article may soon be severely reduced. Kirin13 (talk) 20:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
http://i.imgur.com/0jX2Ozg.png --144.122.250.190 (talk) 17:14, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Both articles appear to be discussing the same topic. Patronymic surname discusses Welsh surnames arbitrarily, which could be incorporated under Patronymic#Welsh_and_Cornish. --Animalparty-- (talk) 03:42, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't know about the Spanish surname Chávez, but it is wrong to say Portuguese surname Chaves comes from the plural of chave (key). Chaves is a toponym, referring to the town of the same name; but although the town's coat of arms displays two keys (it's a canting coat of arms), the town's name does not derive from the plural of chave! Chaves derived phonetically (not semantically) from Latin Flaviae, because in Roman times the town was named Aquae Flaviae (i.e., Flavius' Baths). With time, as people changed from Latin to Proto-Portuguese, the pronunciation changed (fl -> ch was a common phonetic evolution); as it often occurs, the evolution of the word was such that a new, totally unrelated, meaningful word appeared: Chaves (keys). (The same happened with Leon: from Legio = Legion to Leon = Lion.) Gazilion (talk) 12:33, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
It seems this article and the article Patronymic surname says the same. Alberich21 (talk) 22:23, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I've moved the (now cited and updated) information on Finnish language patronymics from the section concerning Scandinavian-language patronymics to an independent one; this is for the sake of consistency, seeing most of the categories on this page containing information on European patronymics are linguistic ones, and the Finnish language is not associated with the Scandinavian languages. Pohjannaula (talk) 12:10, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
I propose that Naming conventions in Ethiopia and Eritrea (previously titled Habesha name) be merged into Patronymic#Ethiopia and Eritrea. I think that the content in the source article can easily be explained in the context of Patronymic, and the Patronymic article is of a reasonable size that the merging of the source will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. I don't think we need to merge the example because Patronymic already explains how this works. Gyrofrog (talk) 15:24, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Suffix (name)#Rename and reorganize as a CONCEPTDAB page for discussion of converting that page to WP:SUMMARY style, at a better name. The proposal there also makes several specific improvement suggestions regarding the present article. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 22:43, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, but it makes no sense to place Hungary to Central and Eastern Europe and Finland to Western Europe. Geographically, culturally and historically Hungary is not more eastern than Finland. If you do not think according to the Cold War schemes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.178.145.73 (talk) 05:33, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
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It says Europeans have no concept of patronymic names but Icelanders still use them... We should change it back Kepsalom (talk) 23:03, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
I want to edit #Aramaic and #Hebrew to include the original words, transliterations (using ((transl))) and translations (using ((Translation))) for son of and daughter of, and to note that the Aramaic בַּר (bar, transl. son of) is sometimes used in place of the Hebrew בֶּן־(ben, transl. son of) For son of in Hebrew, I want to mention that the word is pronounced ben or bin depending on its grammatical context. Also, the current text has parenthetical comments that I need to preserve. What is the best way to lay out and mark up those data? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:16, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
How we call people who have same Patronymic? Patronymic namesake? Kaiyr (talk) 13:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC)