This article was nominated for deletion on 11 August 2009. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors |
This article has become kind of a disaster. Having runs of an individual series makes no sense. That's by definition not a crossover event. The layout we had about 3 years ago was peak. It should go back to something similar where everything is just grouped by year/decade and only including events that cross the whole universe. We don't need an entry for every single x-men related or spider-man story arch.
Major events/storylines needs to have an introductory paragraph to explain the difference between it and line wide events. Every section should have one introductory paragraph. I think only events that lead to new comic book branding, publishing initiatives (https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Publishing_Initiatives), relaunches, revamps and new series should be listed as way to verify their importance.
This list was moved from the Marvel Universe page because the article had gotten too long. Note it was originally in the form of a table but I changed the format to allow more detail to be added to the events. Also note this page will only cover events that happened after Fantastic Four #1 (the "Modern Era" of the Marvel Universe.) Other events should be added to the Timeline of the Marvel Universe instead. Wilfredo Martinez 02:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
We need a working definition of "major event", with regard to this article and Major events of the DC Universe. My definition is that a major event affects the continuity of more than one character, team, or series. "Planet Hulk" affects the Incredible Hulk, so it is not a major event. "Civil War" affects everyone on American soil, and "Annihilation" affects everyone, so they are. My defintion does not affect certain items on this list, such as "The Night Gwen Stacy Died", which has been shown to affect characters other than Spider-Man. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
How about including the Psi Wars? Although it was a battle between Psylocke and Shadow King only, it also affected all psi-sensitive characters throughout the Marvel universe. Just a thought...
Affected, how? Was it a permanent (which I had started to make changes on this page yesterday, adding other events and making the chronology more precise but everything was removed. So bad...
Avengers Children's Crusade (Focusing on the Young Avengers, but with Doc Doom, Scarlet Witch, the Xtinction team from Uncanny X-Men and the Avengers all feature into the story) may be worth including. It featured the return of Scarlet Witch to active player in the main universe. Additionally, Avengers X-Sanction may need a nod as a precursor and tie-in/lead off of Avengers Vs X-Men. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.104.57.160 (talk) 05:27, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
In the definition of event, I think that duration can be a factor. This can be seen in the events I include. They are not all famous and several of them happen behind the scenes for months before being resolved in a main storyline but they crossed over at least two series. Even though by Contest of Champions/Secret Wars standard, they don't seem like events in the modern sense they were at the time major crossovers and the forerunners of modern events.
The Kree-Skrull War goes from Avengers 89 to 97, so this is not just oct 71 to Feb 72. The Inhumans feature in Amazing Adventures crossovers with it.
A big omission is the Thanos War. This ran in Captain Marvel, Daredevil, Avengers, Marvel Feature 11 and 12, Iron Man in 1973-74.
Several of Steve Englehart storylines could qualify: Avengers/Defenders War; Celestial Madonna; Secret Empire (Captain America, X-Men, Beast in Amazing Adventures), There is the Avengers (154-156) story that crossed over with Super-Villain Team-Up 8-10.
There was also the Mister Kline storyline that involved Iron Man and Daredevil over many months (DD 78-84, IM 41-45, Sub-Mariner 42, 1971)
The Villains War in Iron Man involved many villains (not just Iron Man villains) and lasted more than one year (IM 69-81, 1974-75)
There was the Conspiration storyline (mostly in Captain America and Hulk from 1977 to 1979 but also Machine Man)
The death of Gwen Stacy is not a major event of the Marvel Universe. It is a major event of Spider-Man as well as a major event of the history of comics.
There was a sub-plot crossing over several Marvel titles involving three mysterious figures from 1974 to 1979, one of them was revealed to be Tyrannus in Incredible Hulk in the conclusion to the story. (this had to do with earthquakes) (MTU 15,19,20,26,28; Uncanny X-Men 119, Hulk 209, 238-243)
In the eighties, there was a huge crossover with winter time (casket of ancient winters) and Dire Wraiths (from Rom). There was snow in all Marvel Comics and the Dire Wraiths appeared in X-Men and Fantastic Four.
On the other hand, Phoenix Saga concerns only the X-Men as well as Days of Future Past and even to a large degree Dark Phoenix Saga. The popularity of the X-Men tends to distort in importance what happens in their series and diminish what happens in other series. I don't see how Death of Captain Marvel, Kraven's last hunt and Clone Saga are majorevents of the fictional reality Marvel Universe--Leocomix 23:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't this article be more helpful if much more helpful if (like Major events of the DC Universe) its list of "major events" was more limited to only the absolute biggest events of the Marvel U.--Darknus823 (talk) 05:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
That was my original intention, but, being part of a Wiki, it will ultimately contain what the general public wants to put in it, regardless of rules. The best we can do is keep an eye on its content as regularly as we can. I agree the article could use a good trimming. -Wilfredo Martinez (talk) 04:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I took out the "Post Secret Invasion" listing, because there is currently no information about/for one. While it is highly likely that there will be something in regards to the fallout, it doesn't really need to be listed under "major events", just like "The Initiative" isn't listed as a post-Civil War "event". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.28.31 (talk) 08:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I say we leave the "new events" off this page until they have enough information to get a page of their own. Then we just link to it like everything else here. MaxMillions (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
what about the major events in alternative universes, like Ultimat universe, and MC2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.25.252 (talk) 00:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
We categorise these under storylines and describe them as storylines as the actual "event" is in the story. So should this really be "Major storylines of the Marvel Universe"? It avoids any in-universe angle to it, as recommended by WP:WAF. Of course, the content also needs to be re-written in an out-of-universe style but it is a start. (Emperor (talk) 02:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC))
As it stands, the 2000s, a decade which has seen comics sales slip to new lows and in which Marvel superheroes have become an increasingly niche interest, has almost twice as many "major events" as the 1960s, when the bulk of the Marvel Universe was established. This seems problematic. Is an event like Infinity Abyss or Cypher really a major event in the Marvel Universe? Does every single iteration of the Avengers over five years really deserve to be counted as a separate major event? Phil Sandifer (talk) 23:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I would argue that while the comic sales have declined, the focus on "event" and "crossover" books has increased to compensate. Instead of the sprawling epics that made up Marvel in the 90s (Clone Saga for example) there are technically more modest events, but with tons of tie-ins. Fear Itself was a 7 issue stand alone, but to pick up all of the tie-in books is an undertaking all it's own. Spider-Island ran primarily through a couple books, but it has a companion HC because of the 5 or 6 mini-series that were also released during the arc. If you try to use price-point to determine events, Event books normally are $30-$40 in Hardcover (House Of M, Civil War, Age Of X, Spider-Island, Death Of Captain America are all examples of HCs with price points at or above the usual event benchmark) once collected. While random hard covers (X-Men: Legacy Lost Legions, Uncanny X-Force The Apocalypse Solution, FF volume one and two etc) are normally price pointed between $20 and $25 for the US market.
I do however feel that if something like Regenesis was not collected into a volume of some sort it is not truly an "event" and is is more of a re-branding. User:ong312 —Preceding undated comment added 13:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC).
Who is deciding what is a major event? What reliable third party sources are providing the criteria we are using here? --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Some of the publication dates here are inaccurate - I'm trying to fix these as I do the referencing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sutekh666 (talk • contribs) 11:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I've finished referencing as far as I can for the moment - there's still some loose threads hanging here and there though. With events prior to 2008, if they're not listed in Marvel's own Chronicle, that would seem to call into question their status as "Major".Sutekh666 (talk) 07:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Who messed up the list??!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.246.120.165 (talk) 05:19, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
It seems to me that the list is getting a bit bloated, especially in regards to recent material. It looks like there's a movement to include any storyline that has a TPB. I'd like to prune some of these back when I get a chance to include only the major story arcs that affect multiple characters, or are sufficiently notable in other ways. Any thoughts? Dayewalker (talk) 03:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
My own problem is that you didn't cut enough still too much cruft here - many of those "notable" sources were never mentioned again. I have read the comics but that's the wrong measure - if reliable secondary sources don't mention those events, neither do we. We are interested in real world cultural importance, not that Thor dropped his cockring in issue 37 of Journeys up my anus. --Cameron Scott (talk) 07:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
It's not what happens in the comics that are important, it's that people talk about them in reliable sources. Bloodlines was a major storyline in the comics - nobody talked about it, Systembytes was a major storyline in the comics - nobody talks about it. We don't care about the internal impact on the marvel universe, we care about the real world impact. The death of Gwen Stacy is notable because it's been covered in multiple reliable sources. We could fill this up with cruft but it get sent on it's way to AFD if that's what we are going to do.--Cameron Scott (talk) 11:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
And half of the blue links this article links to should be deleted or merged, they are simply run of the mill storylines. --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:30, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
"but COMMON SENSE allows us to form a consensus on what should be kept without needing them at all." em.. no.. that's the wrong idea - common sense varies and that's why we use reliable sources. I mean.. Contest of Champions 2? please... It's not what happens in the in-universe storytelling that's important, it's the discussion in scholarly and other sources. Let me give you an example, within DC comics, the original vigilante killing himself is a minor story but it's an important event in the publication history because it's one of the first examples of a hero killing themselves and says something about the changes to the intended audience for comics during the 1980s. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC) --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Having just finished referencing this page as far as I can, I'd have to agree that there are a number of events listed here that I don't necessarily think would pass the acid test of whether they really affected the entire universe, but seeing as how I can't claim to have read everything, I've referenced them anyhow. Those I can't find a reference for do seem a little questionable. Similarly those that only seem to affect the lives of one major character. I personally would like to see the Death of Gwyn Stacy removed - a major event in pop culture, but didn't remotely affect the Marvel universe. On the other hand, events like the coming of the Celestials and the 50 State Initiative probably should be listed here, but perhaps this is a matter of perspective that depends on what books one reads? A further question involves if this list should really include events that are still currently unfolding (eg: Dark Reign)Since influence can only be objectively judged in retrospect, the only way of measuring a major event here is what Marvel Publishing declares as a "major event" and how many titles the event crossed over.Should Marvel decide such and such an event didn't work out there's nothing to stop them simply declaring the event to be non-cannon as happened with the Earth X series(they also generate a major head ache from a referencing point of view). Incidentally, I've taken the liberty of merging House of M and Decimation - IMO they are really a part of the one event.Sutekh666 (talk) 07:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
I personally would like to see the Death of Gwyn Stacy removed - a major event in pop culture, but didn't remotely affect the Marvel universe. That's back to front to me, that's what we keep Gwen Stacy and get rid of the rest. What happens in the marvel universe is unimportant when taken on it's own merits. --Cameron Scott (talk) 07:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
as well as many others - these type of "lists" are actually really important and useful to both newcomers and collectors. Unless you have a particular problem with Marvel, why you would call for this list's deletion rather than its refinement escapes me 220.235.126.15 (talk) 09:29, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
It's the Manual of Style, you can find the rather long comics related one here - WP:CMOS. --Cameron Scott (talk) 09:51, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
This article has uncited sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.42.105 (talk) 00:39, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
The Kingpin's obsession with Daredevil caused many notable stories to take place in that one comic book. The Kingpin has also featured heavily throughout the Marvel universe. But this isn't the first time he appeared. I don't read Daredevil, so can't comment on how important the first meeting was. Was the obsession he had for defeating Daredevil, felt in other comic books? Anyone know? I know the obsession was mentioned in Spider-man comics, that explained for his ruin at one point. Just bringing it up so something isn't eliminated by mistake. Dream Focus 21:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Much much later - post "born again". --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
I was already a bit concerned about including events like "Captain America reborn" that are still unfolding, but I have real misgivings about including events like "Siege" (2010) that have yet to occur. We have only Marvel's promo material to assess how important such events might be. Sutekh666 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC).
"List of" should be before the title, of course. It can't just be a list of events, since that would include every single thing. So, should the name be List of notable events of the Marvel universe, or List of major events in the Marvel universe? And should universe be capitalized as it is now? Dream Focus 16:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Listing what is going to happen next year seems rather odd. Even if someone slipped up and gave away events that were going to happen, how notable will they be? It can't be a notable event, until it actually happens. I'm removing all the 2010 things for now, since its only October of 2009. Dream Focus 01:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
One group of avengers is actually called that! I checked the Marvel.com site to confirm it. In the comic book they were still called Avengers, or New Avengers, as their official title, so that's what should be in this article. Just like they call Spider-man "webhead", the human Torch "matchstick", Captain America "wingnut", and other things, that's fine in the comics, but you need to use their official names in an article like this. I reverted "Cap's Kooky Quartet" back to "New Avengers". Dream Focus 19:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
This article needs more third party sources. While it is fine and dandy that Marvel hypes up, or writes about, or references events in their own publications, the criteria for a major event needs to include notability, which means third parties are indicating it is major. Places like IGN and CBR should be referenced way more than a book Marvel published themselves. Rowdyoctopus (talk) 02:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
When I did the referencing for this article, I did so with a view to locating events within Marvel Chronology so that readers would know where to go in order to look at the event itself. As I've mentioned above, I personally have some doubts as to how major some of these events actually are. My own view is that this is simply a list, and most of the events here have links to their own page. Those pages should most certainly provide evidence from third parties or otherwise both documenting the event in detail, it's implications for the Marvel Universe and providing an argument for why the event is "major".--Sutekh666 (talk) 07:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Anyone feel up to adding note of The Twelve to this chronology? While the ending we're still waiting for JMS to provide - apparently he's too busy screwing up Superman and Wonder Woman to finish his prior assignments - we at least know of how they came together in 1945, and were sent into suspended animation until the MU equivalent of 2008.
I'd do it myself, but for self-preservation reasons I restrict any editing I do to punctuation and/or grammar errors.
Shouldn't the "Captain America of the 1950's" be added to this list? The one who showed up in Young Mens Comics and fought what was retconned into a Communist spy posing as the Red Skull? There's also the original "Avengers" that we've seen reintroduced as Agents of Atlas, as well as the 3-D Man.
But none of that actually really happened - the 1950s Cap *was* Captain America until they decided otherwise for story reasons. --Cameron Scott (talk) 07:56, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
I know this is a little presumptuous of me, but considering that many people are relating the time line that is presented in the issue to one that DC used to explain major events that where coming up; would it be appropriate to put these events up as "major events" when they happen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vashdog (talk • contribs) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
I feel that this new Title for the Article is very inappropriate as due to the fact that there are parts of the article that do not fit in the idea of a crossover. By definition a crossover is a storyline that crosses over from one comic title to another. But ideas like the introduction of Captain America, which is a single issue fact or the "Secret Empire" story line, which would be considered a saga, are parts of this article. I ask for a change back to the title of "Marvel Major Events" seeming that it is more appropriate to the information that this article contains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.29.132 (talk) 05:15, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Is this actually a crossover? Or just a semi-relaunch thing on individual titles? BulbaThor (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Since this page is basically a list/chronology of comic books, and makes only basic descriptions of the plots of those books, is it not okay to base those basic descriptions on the books themselves? Since the content of the page apart from these summaries is basically limited to names and dates (and a LOT of both of these) essentially the only sources that can be cited are other such timelines. elvenscout742 (talk) 13:26, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
hey this article really contain nice collection of information but thing is that crossovers and storylines both are written and article name is major events so i am editing this article and separating crossovers (spanning multiple comics) from mini storylines (limited to one title comics) .--Shoxee1214 (talk) 11:56, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Looks good! I would propose changing Secret Wars II to a crossover—it's similar to Infinity Gauntlet in that there is a central miniseries but also many tie-in issues. I would consider Return of Jean Grey, Days of Future Present, and Back in Black to be crossovers as well. Zuckyd1 (talk) 21:20, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I feel like the line wide events and Spider-man/X-men crossovers should be placed back in to the major events list because this page is about all Marvel crossover comics. If we separate out the Spider-man and X-men then we might as well delete the main list and just have separate lists for each major character which would make the list more confusing to organize and less useful as a reading list which is what I use it for. Thoughts? -7/5/2019
One issue with renaming this article "Publication history of Marvel Comics story arcs" is that this opens the door to listing the many, many story arcs that Marvel has published over the years, both major and minor. Which I'm personally fine with, but, based on past comments and revisions on this and similar articles, many people would not be. The article could be retitled "Publication history of Marvel Comics major story arcs" (or "Publication history of major Marvel Comics story arcs") but this leads to a degree of subjectivity over what constitutes "major" that people here also tend to be uncomfortable with. I'm thinking "Publication history of Marvel Comics crossovers" (or "crossover stories", "crossover arcs", etc.) might be the best solution—it preserves the original intent of the article while removing the non-NPOV nature of the word "events". Zuckyd1 (talk) 22:08, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
I've just rehauled the article trying to take into account the many points on this list. By crossover I expect characters from different families of titles meeting but also the storyline crossing over from a title to another. Overall, there's a confusion between crossovers and aftermaths, between crossovers and story arcs, between crossovers and marketing campaigns (as shows the recent inclusion of Marvel Now! in this article). If needed we can start new articles for each of those. As I'm less familiar with X-Men stories, I've left a number of them even though they might not be actual crossovers but story arcs. (There's also the question of whether they are actual crossovers in the original sense since these series are all spin-off from each other. Same for the Everything Burns crossover between Mighty Thor and JIM, it probably needn't be included.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leocomix (talk • contribs) 15:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
It seems to be a bit uneven what is included and what isn't. You have "Fall of the Hulks" which is a Hulk specific story, but no Maximum Carnage a Spider-Man specific one. Also all the 90's crossovers that occurred in the annuals (Such as Lifeform, Terminus Factor etc) aren't here. I think it even needs to trim the ones that are character specific or everything needs to be in here. 12/30/2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.140.56 (talk) 22:56, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, now in 2017. Lifeform and other Annual crossovers from the 90s could be better covered. The complete issue list for that one can be found here. Could be a good source for more thorough coverage. I'll try to remember to come back here and make some edits.Leisurely historian (talk) 03:50, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
This list is messy, confusing, and not useful. The defining lines of the different sections are so blurry they hardly make sense; there is no need to separate out Spider-Man, X-Men, and Avengers crossovers. This list should be usable as a reading guide and the way it is right now makes that difficult. Can someone please change it to be like "Publication history of DC Comics crossover events" so that it is just one list? 18 March 2020 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:997F:E50:3058:ACF1:A490:5135 (talk) 12:06, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
That is a great idea! 16 April 2020
100% THIS. Summer of 2019 someone went in and completely wrecked this page. Everything was grouped together with a simple explanation and it only included big events or story line cross overs, not every single story line from every single series, separated by character or team. This think is almost unreadable at this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.248.138.58 (talk) 06:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i want to edit some of the event in marvel comics 2405:4802:803C:2FF0:1995:FA27:D572:EDDE (talk) 05:36, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
What's a "Story Series"? This term does not even exist, does it? Why are some company wide crossovers in different categories (Inferno, Acts of Vengeance, etc.)? Why are stories that are not even proper crossovers in the lists? 2003:D4:771B:5000:940F:5306:1C03:21D6 (talk) 21:16, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
This page needs to drop like 40% of the list. We don't need an entry for every individual x-men or spider-man story arc that is contained within their individual series. By definition nearly half of the article is NOT a crossover or event. I would submit the changes myself for approval but every time I try I just mess up the layout. I know that's not a wildly specific suggestion, but I think anyone reading this understands what I mean. Basically we need to get it back to the format that it was in circa 2017. 2600:1700:4091:9900:4CAE:8061:B67A:9D8A (talk) 21:51, 1 April 2022 (UTC)