- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 15:43, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
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Venetian Renaissance architecture[edit]
View of Venice from woodcut, popular guide through the early part of the Renaissance SEE BELOW - NOW REPLACED!
[Go to ALT 6 at bottom now]
... that a woodcut by Jacopo de' Barbari was the definitive resource detailing the appearance of the City of Venice for much of the 16th century?Source: I don't have the exact quote, it was the whole of the first page and now google wont let me see it again, sorry, but it was the first thing said in the book, it begins something like, "In 1500, Anton Kolb published a birdseye woodcut of Venice" and goes on about how it was important through the century for at least one page of text
Created by RTG (talk) and Johnbod (talk). Nominated by RTG (talk) at 14:10, 18 February 2019 (UTC).
- Comment I don't have a problem with the hook, but "popular guide through the early part of the Renaissance" is dubious. The woodcut is extremely large (Height: 132.7 cm (52.2 ″); Width: 277.5 cm (109.2 ″) - wider than a king-size bed sheet is long) and would have been pretty expensive. In fact the image metadata rightly says "The View was very expensive when published and most examples were probably displayed on walls". And 1500 on is not really "the early part of the Renaissance". Plus it's too long for a DYK caption. I'd just say "de Barbari's Map of Venice, 1500". Johnbod (talk) 00:41, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Printing and map making 500 years ago was not the same thing as it was today. It was a grand work. It took 3 years to complete, as long as Van Goghs whole art career. It was one of the finest works, sometimes claimed as the finest (see what I am getting at), of its kind in the whole world at the time. After completing it, the artist was given a job as a portrait artist for an emperor[1] It represents not only the plan of the city, but the Venetian culture at the time[2] Check out the artwork -->File:Jacopo de' Barbari - View of Venice - alternative.jpg, It doesn't look like much for today but it was a masterpiece in that day. So annoyed that the book will not show me the first page again. I'm sure another hook can be worked but, I suppose I just wanted to plug the map, which will not be considered impressive at a cursory glance, while the impressiveness of the buildings will speak for themselves in modern pictures. 500 years later and in a library that claims 80kms of documents specific to Venice, it remains the definitive source for the Venice of that day. (or start reading here-->) Check out the next best map appearing 1557[3] (looks like a modern day school book drawing, so I think that establishes, but so unfair that it wont show me the first page again when it will give me like a dozen other pages through the book! I was so bored by the first page I swear.) So, I could go on and on about it, but needless to say, the best plug for the subject is to plug the map. It is the only part of the article that will not be understood without explanation. What about, (new reference added)ALT2
"...that Jacopo de Barbaris map Venetie MD, remains a definitive resource on buildings of the Venetian Renaissance...?"~ R.T.G 11:20, 19 February 2019 (UTC)- You should do an article on it. It does in fact look very impressive today - the British Museum print room has one framed on the wall. As I said, personally I have no problem with the hook, just the caption. Johnbod (talk) 15:03, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Printing and map making 500 years ago was not the same thing as it was today. It was a grand work. It took 3 years to complete, as long as Van Goghs whole art career. It was one of the finest works, sometimes claimed as the finest (see what I am getting at), of its kind in the whole world at the time. After completing it, the artist was given a job as a portrait artist for an emperor[1] It represents not only the plan of the city, but the Venetian culture at the time[2] Check out the artwork -->File:Jacopo de' Barbari - View of Venice - alternative.jpg, It doesn't look like much for today but it was a masterpiece in that day. So annoyed that the book will not show me the first page again. I'm sure another hook can be worked but, I suppose I just wanted to plug the map, which will not be considered impressive at a cursory glance, while the impressiveness of the buildings will speak for themselves in modern pictures. 500 years later and in a library that claims 80kms of documents specific to Venice, it remains the definitive source for the Venice of that day. (or start reading here-->) Check out the next best map appearing 1557[3] (looks like a modern day school book drawing, so I think that establishes, but so unfair that it wont show me the first page again when it will give me like a dozen other pages through the book! I was so bored by the first page I swear.) So, I could go on and on about it, but needless to say, the best plug for the subject is to plug the map. It is the only part of the article that will not be understood without explanation. What about, (new reference added)ALT2
- Note - the above is not a review I've edited the article, & so won't be reviewing. Johnbod (talk) 15:19, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- It's still too long, or you'd rather something on the architecture? What about this (I may have to expand but it was definitely in some of the sources), ALT3"
...that the Doge's Palace is sometimes argued to have evoked the Rennaissance in architecture...?"Or to that effect but have preceded Italy, which is also interesting, and maybe better I guess. Yeah there might be an article in that map I was impressed with it though it's not modern standards. 3 meters wide and 3 years, all those rooves, it's a real work. Note the factory-esque roof. ~ R.T.G 17:30, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- It's still too long, or you'd rather something on the architecture? What about this (I may have to expand but it was definitely in some of the sources), ALT3"
A link to View of Venice could be added. But I am not going to fix it up to meet any reviewer's arbitrary comments. Theramin (talk) 02:32, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- Linked at the article anyway - great to see this! It would need more refs for a double DYK nom, but as an unbolded link should be fine. Johnbod (talk) 05:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- Well done, thanks o/ ~ R.T.G 19:39, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- How about... Alt 4
"...Barbari's View of Venice shows the Doge's Palace in 1500, a fine example of Venetian Gothic architecture, evolving into Renaissance Architecture?"~ R.T.G 19:58, 25 February 2019 (UTC)- On Alt 4: Does it show this evolution? The article says that "The Doge's Palace was much rebuilt after fires, but mostly behind the Gothic facades." Do we see much (or anything) behind these facades? I looked in vain for backup elsewhere but was unsuccessful: The article View of Venice says "Doge's Palace is depicted about 50% taller than it should be if it were depicted to scale", suggesting that veracity would be dubious; the article Doge's Palace doesn't seem to mention this "view" at all, though I may have missed something. -- Hoary (talk) 12:49, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Linked at the article anyway - great to see this! It would need more refs for a double DYK nom, but as an unbolded link should be fine. Johnbod (talk) 05:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
- With the kind agreement of User:RTG, I'm adding myself to the nom, as I've now written most of the text. I'd only mess the template up - perhaps someone who knows how could add me? Probably a new hook suggestion soon, & maybe pic. Johnbod (talk) 02:12, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- User:Johnbod and User:Theramin added to noms.
- Suggesting hook, ALT5
"...it took Jacopo de' Barbari 3 years to describe early Venetian Renaissance architecture in his View of Venice...?"~ R.T.G 07:23, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- Suggesting hook, ALT5
We need two small easy reviews on this one. We need someone to add a second article to the nomination, View of Venice. We need hooks. 
~ R.T.G 07:23, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- I would love to nominate the View of Venice, with this or on its own, but as is usual with this editor, there are many too few inline cites, though several good sources are given at the bottom. So I don't think it is a runner, unfortunately. Johnbod (talk) 18:23, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
villa by Palladio
- Ok, starting afresh! ALT6 "... most major architects of Venetian Renaissance architecture (villa by Palladio pictured) were not natives of the city, or even of the Republic of Venice?" 2 refs (current ref 20), but to books. Johnbod (talk) 21:16, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Full review needed. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:14, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
This substantial article replaces a redirect and is new enough and long enough. The image for the original hook is too wishy-washy at thumbnail size for use, but the Palladio image is OK and properly licensed. The original hook and ALT6 facts are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. A QPQ has been done. I have struck the other hooks for clarity. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
