The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Cirt (talk) 16:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aer Lingus Regional (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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This article was created yesterday (26th January) in response to the airlines Aer Lingus and Aer Arann announcing a new alliance in which Aer Arann will operate flights on behalf of Aer Lingus to a number of destinations from Ireland to the UK and France. The service will be branded "Aer Lingus Regional". However, "Aer Lingus Regional" is not by any means a separate airline, and it has no general notability to have its' own article. The current article can also easily fool the reader into thinking that this a separate airline, and even claims that Christoph Mueller is the CEO of Aer Lingus Regional, even though he is the CEO of Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus Regional is simply an alliance between two airlines, and doesn't have a CEO!

I've tried to redirect this article to Aer Lingus, but it has been reverted by Kavs8, and therefore an AfD is necessary. If this article is deleted, so should Aer Lingus Regional destinations. Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 17:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - This is the only article re-lating to Aer Lingus Regional a new brand JUST launched on 26/01/10 and more information will become available when it grows keep the article. --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 18:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kavs8, you just left a note on my talk page asking to delete the pages. How come you've had a sudden change of heart? --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 18:25, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Like United Express and Delta Connection, which are both owned entirely by United Airlines and Delta Airlines respectively and can be technically called the same airline, they are different entities (different pay structure, union-affiliations, etc.). As Kavs8 pointed out, this is an actual regional that seems to be in the early stages. --Oakshade (talk) 18:23, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Violates WP:RS and WP:CRYSTAL. Ditto for Aer Lingus Regional destinations.LeadSongDog come howl 18:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as this is in the same line as Delta Connection and others. The article needs to be reworked to emphasize that this is an agreement between Aer Lingus and Aer Arran, and not a totally separate airline. -- Hawaiian717 (talk) 18:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Aer Lingus Regional is to be a new airline. It will operate different aircraft from the Aer Lingus fleet which will be branded as Aer Lingus Regional. As mentioned, this is just the same as Delta Connect etc, or in the UK bmi Regional. If the article gets deleted, then judging by Footyfantic3000's theory, all these other pages, like Bmi Regional, Delta Regional etc etc should all be deleted too. It is a different company, a different management team a complete new entity. -- Planephoenix (talk) 17:38, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

They will be using Aer Arann's planes, who are operating the route. Aer Arann cabin crew will also work on board the flights, while the flights will be booked through aerlingus.com. This is not a separate commuter subsidiary like BMI Regional or Delta Connection, it's just an alliance, and as far as I know it won't have any board of management, unlike what you claim. --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 17:45, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like this is exactly the same as United Express. United owns none of the airlines that operate United Express branded service; United sells the tickets, but the planes are operated by other carriers like SkyWest, Shuttle America, Mesa, and others, using SkyWest/Shuttle America/Mesa/etc cabin crew and call signs. Delta Connection is the same, except that some of the carriers are wholly own subsidiaries of Delta, but even in that case the subsidiaries have their own pilots, cabin crew, and callsigns. -- Hawaiian717 (talk) 03:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The aircraft will come from Aer Arran, yes. But they will be repainted in to Aer Lingus branding and therefore has just as much right for an article as other regional airline offshoots. Planephoenix (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Delete From the information given this seems to be not much more than a wet-lease or codeshare agreement. It's like bmi operating some flights on behalf of Lufthansa. The only difference is that there has been a unique brand name chosen, but I think this is just a marketing issue. Therefore I tend to think the article should be deleted, and the - still notable - information shall be merged in Aer Lingus or Aer Arann. Though, on the other hand, there is an article on Lufthansa Italia, which has not any management of its own, either. There is not even a distinctive callsign. It troubles me that I cannot find any difference to Aer Lingus Regional. Per aspera ad Astra (talk) 19:30, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I changed my mind, as I found out that LH Italia is an airline brand of its own, unlike EI Regional. Per aspera ad Astra (talk) 13:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I have added new information that states the airline is an agreement between both Aer Arann and Aer Lingus + footfanatic i have had a change of heart because the airline just launched remember that just 2 days after the launch and we have people trying to delete the new wikipedia article created by me give it time for more information to become available. --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 20:58, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Per aspera ad Astra i understand where you are coming from as that seem's to be the case but the only difference is that it is a brand new subsidary with Aer Lingus house colours on Aer Arann aircraft and new routes will be launched, with Aer Arann and Aer Lingus indicating new aircraft, new routes, and a mangement team for the new airline ontime for the launch on 28/03/10 so please wait for information to become available remember it lauched just 2 days ago, but i do understand what you are saying as that is very similar just in a different sense as it is a subsidary of Aer Lingus but with Aer Arann operating flights. --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 21:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Forgive me people but where does it say in any of the articles / press releases that the Aer Arann aircraft being used will be re-painted to show this "Aer Lingus Regional" Livery? From what i gather, the point of the new franchise is that both Aer Arann and Aer Lingus benefit from a partnership so that neither airlines loose identity and come together to offer more to the public. Haven't heard anything about the Aer Lingus Regional brand becoming an actual subsidiary "airline", just that it will be operated by Aer Lingus but through the use of Aer Arann aircraft - hence the partnership? Please forgive me if i am wrong 92.23.17.152 (talk) 21:47, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

92.23.17.152 Look hear i found it when i looked at the new flight schedule http://www.aerlingus.com/i18n/en/htmlPopups/reInformation.html --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 22:04, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

oh right well that's cleared it up then :) thanks kavs8 92.23.17.152 (talk) 22:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete it is just a marketing brand that just needs to be mentioned on the Aer Lingus and Aer Arann article. Not legally an airline or even a company. Probably better as a redirect. MilborneOne (talk) 18:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Keep it is a seperate Aer Lingus & Aer Arann division, a new Aer Lingus subsidry with a new CEO, team to be announced how could you justify a delete just 3 days after it launched!! Milborneone --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 18:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.125.146 (talk) [reply]

As you ask nothing in the article indicates that it is an airline as it says franchise agreement. Just need to point to an Air Operators Certificate or other legal document that shows that it more than a branding franchise agreement. (please dont keep adding keep we dont add it up like a scoreboard) MilborneOne (talk) 19:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

busi

• Keep: i have read Aer Lingus's press release in London on the 26th it clearly states on that that Aer Lingus Regional is a subsidary and not controlled by Aer Lingus so it deserves an article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josemaneulo (talk • contribs) 20:41, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree Josemaneulo i have re-itered this but it has been ignored by footyfanatic3000 on multiple occasions. --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 20:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As per what you have deleted in the edit history, I can't help but be suspicious about this. Two users voting from the same IP is quite uncommon... --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 20:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not really footyfanatic 3000 their is a wikipedia article re-lating to blocked pc's using the same IP address this is very tipical in broadband services, you are also straying from the point in hand have you read the aerlingus press release in London?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josemaneulo (talk • contribs) 20:48, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have read many press releases, but this is not a separate entity, just a franchise agreement between Aer Lingus and Aer Arann (as I've already said).

Anyway, I'm a bit suspicious about this because the two accounts, Kavs8 and Josemanuelo are using the same IP with the same ISP in the same debate, are giving strong support to each other, they both seem to be ready to reply to one another's edits, and have the same style of writing. It's hard to imagine all of this being a coincidence... Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 20:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I will report you are being totally unconstructive if the article means this much to you to follow and accuse people of helping to back each other up on articles is hearsay, I Joined wikipedia in January 2009 after the ip address for my area Coolamber Cobh was blocked for over 3months so josemaneulo mite be in my local area i have also reported you for your vandilism at 21.54 + 22.12 on 26 January 2010 + josemaneulo was wrong as Aer Lingus article dose not state a completely sperate company. --Kavs8 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 21:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you should read WP:VAND for what is and what isn't considered vandalism. These edits were not vandalism. I have always edited constructively on both this wiki and the Irish language wiki. You've made many great contributions to Wikipedia too. Just don't be falsely accusing others of vandalism. --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 21:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway you created your account in April '09, not January. --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 21:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Having at first been very much for the keep I am open to what comes. I believe perhaps we should wait until closer to the time until it is deleted, as Kavs has said, it was only announced within the last week therefore details are still sketchy. My belief is that it is just like bmi regional, that has its own article hence why i believe Lingus Regional deserves one. Lets just wait and see perhaps?Planephoenix (talk) 18:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But BMI regional was originally set up as a separate airline (Business Air) until it was later bought by BMI. In this case, we're dealing with a brand name for a franchise agreement. Not an actual airline at all. --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 20:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep BA Connect had its own page... I see no problem in this page existing, should further news come from Aer Lingus/Aer Arran that would provide a substantial reason for deletion so be it, But as of the 3/2/10 I see no reason in which this page should be deleted.--NorthernCounties (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But at least BA Connect was a subsidiary, this is just the name being used on planes to advertise a franchise agreement. When you book a flight to one of the destinations served under the agreement e.g. Durham Tees Valley, there is not even a hint that this may be operated by Aer Arann. In fact, when you click on the flight details when booking your flight, it says that it is operated by Aer Lingus. No mention of Aer Lingus Regional whatsoever. --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 19:07, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - I see no reason for deletion. Deb (talk) 12:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is only a brand being used on planes only for a franchise agreement. That's all it's about, and that's the reason for deletion. --Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 15:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.