The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. -- Cirt (talk) 04:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agni Air Flight 101[edit]

Agni Air Flight 101 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

It's hard to see what makes this plane crash particularly historically notable, beyond routine news values. Nepal is a dangerous place for flying, this type of aircraft has been lost many times with many fatalities, it is not a particularly deadly crash for Nepal, and it is not particularly unusual crash based on the early reports. I've nothing against recreation in changed circumnstances, but right now, this article is the sort of thing that should be on wikinews. MickMacNee (talk) 17:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • This only proves that the AIRCRASH essay is not doing a proper job of giving a scale-able yardstick of general aircrash notability. The airline had five planes and has been going for 4 years, so any kind of fatal crash at all is likely to meet A3. And there have been 23 hull losses of Do228's, so that seems an equally insignificant marker. So, no, it doesn't equate to anything except pointless essay-wonkery. It certainly goes no way to explaining how these facts for this crash equate to historical notability and significance. MickMacNee (talk) 18:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mick, I'm not going to get into a massive debate over the article in question or the guideline essay I quoted. You've stated your reasons for deletion, I've stated my reasons for keeping. Other editors have a chance to give their opinion on the article. At the end of seven days, an uninvolved editor will make a decision. This is how the process works, there is no need to keep arguing each point with a counterpoint. Mjroots (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not a Wikipedia Guideline, you can no more quote it as one than you can boil a chocoloate teapot. You can sit it out all you want, it doesn't bother me, just don't complain if your opinion is discounted in the final closure if you couldn't be bothered to defend it when challenged. Yes you've given a reason, well done. But Afd is about debate, not giving everyone a free-vote, and how you got to be an admin without getting this basic idea is beyond me. MickMacNee (talk) 19:03, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • MMN is correct, WP:AIRCRASH is an essay, per the notice at the top of that page.
That implies there is a magic number of dead to be notable, other than 1. Or is the number 1? Please explain how 14 deaths "makes it notable." MickMacNee (talk) 19:27, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In your initial nomination, you indicated that one of the factors against notability was that "it is not a particularly deadly crash for Nepal". Forgetting, for the moment, the arguments over automatic notability for fatal airline crashes, do you believe that the "wherever they occur" part should be a factor in determining notability? I recognize, of course, that the nomination is based on WP:NOTNEWS, rather than where it occurred or how many people died, and that this recent event happened to occur in the Third World rather than in the U.S. or Europe. I think that it's fair to say that people are interested in reading the details about fatal airline accidents, and not always for admirable reasons; some want to learn more about the technical aspects; some, to be sure, have a ghoulish fascination with the subject. In general, however, the common outcome that has evolved is that articles about fatal airline crashes are going to be kept, regardless of when, where, or how many died; while incidents with no fatalities are far less likely to be kept. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, it is what it is. Mandsford 00:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Scheduled flight aircrashes are not automatically notable, wherever they occur. This concept is not incompatible with the idea that notability is down to significance, and crashes in countries where they are rare and have poor safety records, are 'likely' to be more significant that in countries where they are common and have good safety records. But crashes in the USA can still be 'routine' and thus should not be included here, even though they will get more copious news coverage at the time. I dispute this is a common outcome, but if it is, and is being based on just WP:INTERESTING / WP:TABLOID / WP:BIAS, then no, it isn't a Good Thing at all, and should be stopped. MickMacNee (talk) 12:33, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Far from being a 'no brainer', AIRCRASH is a reason not to keep it. YSSYguy (talk) 07:42, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I highly doubt anybody can have a reasoned argument with you Mick. stop wasting every bodies time. no way in hell is this article going to get deleted.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you haven't made a reasoned argument yet, so how would you even know? MickMacNee (talk) 17:12, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
exactly my point. multiple reasoned arguments exist from multiple editors yet you fail to see even one of them. even if I made one you will not be able to comprehend it. trust me on that one.i will be more than happy to come over and explain on your talk page why this article was kept after the AfD is closed.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we've yet to see if you can make one. But if you want to speak for other people, then give me a for example of a reasoned argument having been given, and then me 'not being able to comprehend it'. MickMacNee (talk) 18:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
if you cant see one reasoned argument in this whole AfD to "keep" the problem is with you, so stop your completely non sense rants and do something useful for the project, this is definitely where WP:SNOW applies you might want to read WP:POINT also--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, the problem is you and your lack of Wikipedia knowhow it seems. I said I haven't seen one from you. I've seen some from others, and I've properly countered them, and await the final reckoning of an admin who knows his good arguments from his bad arguments. That's how Afd works. Your knowledge of the process though is beyond clueless if you think this is anywhere near a SNOW case, and let's not even begin to take apart your idea of what POINT means, it would be just embarassing tbh. You really should just quit now if you have nothing to actually say about this debate from a factual, or policy clueful, standpoint. I am doing something usefull for the project, which is not a news repository, using fully mandated and totally normal means. Others are free to choose how they deal with that to best effect, but attacking me won't make shit all difference on that score. But I really don't expect you to comprehend that in the slightest on current evidence. That's more like advanced wiki-clueness tbh. MickMacNee (talk) 03:10, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note. This IP has made no other edits to the project except to copy and paste this same vote across three Afds of wildly different crashes
—Preceding unsigned comment added by MickMacNee (talk • contribs) 11:54, 26 August 2010
this is exactly how you are hurting the project. you are pissing off editors by your demeanor so instead of providing useful reasoned !votes they do this. the feeling is mutual MMN. no grounding in practice or policy?? who is the only one here who has been blocked > 20 times for failing to understand basic WP policy ??--Wikireader41 (talk) 06:07, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
who is the only one here who has been blocked > 20 times for failing to understand basic WP policy Can I take a wild stab at this one?! Lugnuts (talk) 08:37, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I could give a monkeys if I piss you off Wikireader41, you've contributed nothing but irrelevance to this Afd and others, the project would be far better off if you retired frankly. You and lugnuts are the sort of lame-ass comedy duo that keeps on performing while not realising nobody in the audience finds them remotely funny, or even interesting. MickMacNee (talk) 12:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have enough self respect to retire if I were to be blocked 20 times. get the message MMN. nobody wants you and your ability to contribute is marginal at best.--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have enough self-respect not to come out with schoolgirl lameness like this in an Afd, period. MickMacNee (talk) 17:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Is this actually a vote? !Votes need proper reasoning behind them, which it lacks. —Mikemoral♪♫ 20:58, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: A plane crash killing 14 is significant in any country. The event got major international coverage by reliable sources (not just Nepalese coverage).--Lester 16:26, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Prove it, don't just assert it, because it is a proveably false claim - Wikipedia has not, and unless some core policies change, likely never will not, declare a 14 death aircrash as automatically notable. And international coverage is irrelevant, it simply existing does not defeat NOT#NEWS concerns without further explanation/analysis, which you have failed to provide with this one line vote. MickMacNee (talk) 17:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Category