The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Two relists have not produced a consensus. RL0919 (talk) 11:46, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Diana Babar[edit]

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Diana Babar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails GNG. The only information I can is the CBE. Orville1974 (talk) 12:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. Orville1974 (talk) 12:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Orville1974 (talk) 12:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:59, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I do not value a sub-stub 'biography'. I did read the 'awards and honours' discussion. I cannot find, there or elsewhere, a statement wherein every CBE is guaranteed a biography. This is appropriate as there are too many people with this honour for it to be considered 'significant'. For comparative purposes, I took a look at the two higher ranks, of which there were typically no more than ten created each year combined (last few years excepted). In 2008, there were eight DBE/KBE created, seven of whom have pages and while none of them are expansive, it does seem that there was sufficient information available on each of them to write a biography. There were no GBE honours that year (FWIW, this is the level that I'd consider an SNG for). There should be sufficient material available to write the biography and I could not discover any with which this page might be fleshed out. Ultimately, the purpose here is to inform the reader and a husk of a biography fails at this so I must recommend 'delete'. ogenstein (talk) 05:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, there is considerable precedent for a CBE or above to be notable. Many AfDs have decided that this is the case. The CBE is an exceptionally notable award only awarded to those who have contributed substantially to the country, usually at a national level. In a country of over 60 million people, 100-200 awards every year is not a lot. The GBE is an exceptionally rare honour, so I'm not sure what your point is there. I should also point out that the usual award to men as an equivalent to the DBE is a Knight Bachelor, not a KBE. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:36, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A Nobel prize is exceptionally notable. For a given subject, only one (unless shared) is given out each year, so practically speaking, there is a limit to how many there are. The GBE has, from what I understand, a limit of 300 at any time. As such, wikipedia can have a list of GBE but there are too many CBE or DBE to do so. If there are too many to list, then it is a lot. As well, there are other countries with similar honours. Before long, 1/500 wikipedia pages would be covering these exceptionally notable honours, with 98% of them being stubs. If there isn't a meaningful defined restriction, as with the GBE, or with CC of the Order of Canada, then I think it is too large a net to cast.
To your aside, there are two names under KBE for 2008, and the OBE page classifies the two as the same (even if it discusses it in the text). If it is misleading, perhaps an update would help clarify. ogenstein (talk) 17:52, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The KBE and the DBE are at the same level, but the KBE is rarely awarded. Most men awarded a knighthood are appointed Knight Bachelor. Most women awarded the equivalent are appointed DBE. Just one of the peculiarities of the honours system. And no, there is no problem with creating stubs for people who are notable. We have generally made a cut-off point of CBE because far fewer of these are awarded than the lower OBE or MBE, where numbers of awards begin to mushroom, and they are generally only awarded for high achievement at a national level (whereas OBEs and MBEs may be awarded for achievement at a local level). To suggest that even a knighthood or damehood is not an indication of notability frankly shows a lack of understanding of the honours system. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:28, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - If they're actually notable but I don't believe that a one-line article is a good article. FWIW, I'd guess that sportstubs are beyond that level. I'd be up for changing both sportstubs and geostubs — even if it were by just folding them into a higher level page. I'm not going to advocate for an arbitrary fire hose. ogenstein (talk) 01:57, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -@Bbb23:I know this user:Mothman. He is using multiple account. He is a new user. He writing wrong Policy information all of afD negative comments also he don’t know which article eligible for notable or not. Please check this user. Thanks— Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.30.35.115 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For additional discussion on whether a CBE is sufficient to demonstrate notability on its own (per ANYBIO1) -
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 09:55, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It simply doesn't. The reader finds no new information after clicking her name at 2008_New_Year_Honours#Commanders_of_the_Order_of_the_British_Empire_(CBE). Blumpf (talk) 00:33, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - That's true about the sports articles and I'd support an effort to change that but WP:NSPORTS currently provides specific requirements for notability in each sport (e.g. play one game in NFL) which, even if it makes for too low a bar, is a clear bar and an objective one. Even the supporters of CBE make arbitrary distinctions between it and the lower honours. And they're basically the same distinction that those who oppose the CBE line make just applied at a different level. I would prefer if these reflexive articles were merged into a list of some sort (e.g. New York Yankees players of the 1920s, CBEs of 2008) and should sufficient material subsequently appear, they could diverge into a separate article. I'm always disappointed when I click through to an article and find it empty. ogenstein (talk) 09:53, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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