The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus that the subject does not meet WP:CORPDEPTH. ansh666 21:08, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Niazi Express (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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No in-depth coverage in WP:RS. Fails WP:GNG, WP:NCORP and WP:CORPDEPTH. Störm (talk) 06:58, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 16:02, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 16:02, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 16:03, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete non notable organisation/ service. These kind of services can hardly passes WP:GNG talk less of WP:CORPDEPTH. The only source available are primary and perhaps government press release which doesn't even exist in this case. –Ammarpad (talk) 07:05, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as this seems to be notable. I am not particularly familiar but I can see references in newspapers [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] and it seems to have been in business for a long time. Many of these also describe it as a "major player".--DreamLinker (talk) 02:02, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • None of these sources is discussing Niazia Express directly, they are mere mention. Take this and this (your sources) please how can this be used to claim " significant coverage "? . Being in business for a long time is not automatic notability also. –Ammarpad (talk) 04:30, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • [6] It says "The largest bus services that carry passengers between Sialkot and Rawalpindi are the Daewoo bus service and the Niazi Express." The other reference [7] says "the manager of Niazi Express, a popular bus service". While these may seem like mere mentions, they imply the fact that the bus company is a major player. The sources seem to imply the same as well and I would say a major bus service which carries many people and has been in operation since 2005 at least (12 years) would be notable. I will try to find more sources. The language spoken in Pakistan is Urdu and many newspapers are also in Urdu, not English. So that may play a part in there being less sources.--DreamLinker (talk) 17:01, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • By reading each source, they are indeed routine mention, as you also rightly admitted. If you think these newspaper imply they're "major player" why should Wikipedia also imply they're notable because of these mentions? Also why do you think by being in business since 2005 they must be notable?! –Ammarpad (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • [8] calls it a "well established intercity bus service".--DreamLinker (talk) 17:12, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • Agreed. In discussing transport in Pakistan, she mentioned them among others, and called them that. –Ammarpad (talk) 18:32, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • [9] Another one about some dispute the company has with some branch of police.--DreamLinker (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • If gov't gives order for company to vacate gov't land and the company argue with press release, this is not coverage of the company; see WP:CORPDEPTH. Even you, if you refuse to vacate gov't land after being instructed, you will surely be mentioned in newspaper –Ammarpad (talk) 18:19, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Replying here to all the threads above I understand that unlike the transportation companies in American or Europe, there are comparatively fewer sources available. The language of Pakistan is Urdu and most newspapers are in Urdu as well. I have not been able to retrieve them as I cannot read the script. From the English sources I have shown above, many of them have described it as a "major transportation company" which operates inter-city bus services. The earliest English news article I found is from 2005 and this company existed then (and company's website claims it existed from 1990). From the looks of it, there is a strong claim that this is a company which has has served multiple people for a long while. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopaedia and a major transportation company which has served many people is something which deserved to be kept. I wouldn't want to be hasty and delete it, when there is an implication of notability. In any case, I will ask for more opinions at Wikipedia:WikiProject Buses.--DreamLinker (talk) 08:02, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• "1 "calling company " major" by one newspaper is not evidence of notability. Small firm can have an article while large one doesn't, notability is not about large or claim of existence since 1990.
• You are now derailing to appealing to emotion and I like it, attitude, insteading of sound argument: Wikipedia doesn't keep article because they are called "major company", it does because they received significant coverage in independent sources, even if they are not called " major company "
• Soliciting voters to come AfD to help is not allowed, that's called canvassing, especially by inviting partisan audience who have already identified with WP:WikiProject Buses –Ammarpad (talk) 09:13, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• I am not sure how is this canvassing. I already mentioned above that I will be posting to a WikiProject. Previously, another admin had also advised on my talk page to post on WikiProjects for more opinions. I see that you have left a warning about canvassing, so I will ask an admin (Cullen328), who I have previously talked to before. Personally, I don't see where is the canvassing happening. Unlike what you are implying, I did not "solicit voters to come AfD to help". I read the link you posted and it says it is fine to post on "The talk page or noticeboard of one or more WikiProjects or other Wikipedia collaborations which may have interest in the topic under discussion." In any case, I will ask Cullen328.--DreamLinker (talk) 09:29, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• You're turning this into whole different discussion by this now. And please don't deny or wikilawyer your way here. See your edit summary "Inviting editors to an AfD for Niazi Express" diff; why do you think it is appropriate to "invite" people few hours before AfD closes? Would you do that if you are sure it will be closed in your favor??. I also say the "invitees" are partisan, because they identified themselves as members of WP:BUSES, thus, will naturally have certain disposition towards what they are "mass invited" for at the 11th hour. –Ammarpad (talk) 10:02, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Once again, you are straw manning the discussion and this is a stunning example of assuming bad faith. The link you quoted WP:CANVASS says it is perfectly fine to post on relevant WikiProjects as long as it is a neutral post. Please try to refute that if you can. --DreamLinker (talk) 10:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Sorry quoting edit summary verbatim is bad faith?!. WP:CANVASS can only be appropriate at the beginning of this AfD, when there is zero vote, not last day, at the 11th hour. You also forgot to answer whether you will also mass-invite them if the discusssion is obviously keep in your favor and remain few hours to close–Ammarpad (talk) 10:21, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• "WP:CANVASS can only be appropriate at the beginning of this AfD, when there is zero vote, not last day, at the 11th hour." Again, the guideline very clearly doesn't mention anything like that. You are making this up. And I never intended to invite at the 11th hour. Clearly this was something you assumed on your own and this is what I called bad faith assumption. Oh and AfDs with low inputs like this one are usually relisted. If I really wanted to keep this article, I would have not invited anyone and let it have a no consensus close which would have kept the article.--DreamLinker (talk) 10:53, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• You are doing a Straw man here. My argument is that based on the descriptions on English sources, there is a good chance that Urdu sources exist or pre-internet era sources exist. Could you show me your research of Urdu sources?--DreamLinker (talk) 09:33, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Posting a neutrally worded notification at a relevant Wikiproject is not canvassing. Searching for sources in other relevant languages such as Urdu in this case is a routine part of the research that should be done before nominating an article for deletion, and that search in other languages should continue during the AfD process. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:15, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• @Cullen328:. I know posting neutrally-worded invitation is not cabvassing. But I don't whether you'll encourage this worded edit summary only one day before AfD closes. Also, the relevant WikiProject is subscriber to WP:Article alerts, which means the AfD has already been in front of the invitees, for as long as it exists here. Ammarpad (talk) 23:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Ammarpad, there is no evidence of canvassing in the wording of the notification, in the edit summary of the notification or in the timing of the notification. Such a notification is completely appropriate ten minutes after an AfD begins or ten minutes before it is scheduled to end. Please drop the stick. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 09:09, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• No stick @Cullen328:. No even something that looks like stick. I agree. Thanks. –Ammarpad (talk) 09:30, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I would expect a bus service of this size in the United States or Europe to be notable. However, there must be sourcing. The best I can find in English is [10] and in (Google translate-assisted) Urdu is [11] ("During the raid, District Administration team arrested Zabir Niazi, owner of Niazi Express"). power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:56, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• That's precisely my point as well. This seems to be a pretty large bus company and a company of this size would be notable in the US/Europe. I asked Wikiproject Pakistan for help in looking up sources.--DreamLinker (talk) 03:32, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Need in depth sourcing, not mentions for notability per WP:CORPDEPTH. Need coverage about the company not news stories involving them too. Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:49, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:CORPDEPTH. Coverage in presented sources still gives no evidence of notability. Ajf773 (talk) 19:33, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.