The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. This is one of those that comes from reading comments not counting. The keep arguments largly assert notability but the sourcing provided isnt reliable. The only decent source offered (the mirror) is a tabloid and therefore not an RS. That leaves the keep side with no policy based arguments. Spartaz ^Humbug! 23:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Superkombat Fighting Championship

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AfDs for this article:

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Persistently re-created, this (and related) articles have been deleted at least six times that I'm aware of, generally because of lack of coverage in reliable sources, WP:ROUTINE, and WP:EVENT. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (3rd nomination). Jayjg ^(talk) 17:33, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Adding:

2018 in SUPERKOMBAT
2017 in SUPERKOMBAT
2016 in SUPERKOMBAT
2015 in SUPERKOMBAT
2014 in SUPERKOMBAT
2013 in SUPERKOMBAT
2012 in SUPERKOMBAT
2011 in SUPERKOMBAT
Speedy delete and salt - WP:G4 x3, previously salted. <RetroCraft314 talk/> 18:12, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep - The article was deleted at the start of the promotion in 2011, since then it won the best promotion of the year in kickboxing in 2011 and was nominated once again in 2016. This is part of the kickboxing history and since kickboxing doesn't hold a Boxrec it's hard to find this info ever again collected like this. They had an event with 34,000 people attending, it was best attendance in the history of this sport in Europe. It produced several champions for Glory (kickboxing) which is now number 1 and new K-1. In Europe it was on Eurosport for years, also it's a broadcast now in China, Brazil or CBS Sports. Please be objective and read the article! Do you even know Rico Verhoeven, Alex Pereira (kickboxer), Benjamin Adegbuyi, Pavel Zhuravlev, Hesdy Gerges etc they are all in Glory now and champions. We have another 10-15 kickboxing promotions and most of them are even less notable. So SUPERKOMBAT can't be kept but we have Absolute Championship Berkut, Enfusion, Final Fight Championship, King of Kings (kickboxing), Wu Lin Feng, Glory of Heroes and not just Glory, K-1 and Kunlun? Why so much hate? Because it's well documented? I inform myself every time here. There are years with Superkombat, all sourced, you don't know what you are talking about. ILoveCasablanca (talk • contribs) 18:58, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jay, it seems that the article was previously deleted because of the war between MMA users against kickboxing users. But since 2011 which was the start of the promotion, maybe it was not notable then, it really became notable. Believe me. ILoveCasablanca (talk • contribs) 19:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC)— ILoveCasablanca (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

ILoveCasablanca, please see WP:OTHERSTUFF Jayjg ^(talk)

Strong keep - At one time one of the more meaningful kickboxing promotions in the world and easily wiki notable. Also asking for speedy deletion seems very inappropriate for an article made 4 and a half years ago. ShadessKB (talk) 19:33, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

added refs to mirror.co.uk, as.com, yahoo, china.com.cn and ifeng.com. Unneeded as they are when the article was already fine enough. In general should have probably been tagged for notability and not instantly go for the delete. Half of the previous nominations weren't about this article and/or didn't even reach consensus for deletion so using those as reasoning for this makes no sense. ShadessKB (talk) 20:38, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - As an Aussie, I can really say Wikipedia informs me about kickboxing (my favourite sport). These are very useful articles. SuperKombat is a international promotion, Paul Slowinski or Ben Edwards fought there. — 110.21.72.202 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Delete and salt: Based on the previous AfDs, as well as a lack of sustained coverage in reliable sources, and even, to some extent, a lack of notability: it ought not be incumbent on the reader to determine whether, say, LiverKick or Bloody Elbow have independent editorial integrity (nor do I speculate on such a matter). There's no sustained coverage in the United States, the United Kingdom (The Mirror aside), Australia, or France. Fightmag might suffice, but more than two sources are needed for a good article. I cannot, and do not, evaluate the suitability of Combat Press, but that's a negative for the continuation of this article. Not every major event or promotion requires a Wikipedia page. This is one of those cases. — Javert2113 (talk; please ping me in your reply on this page) 04:05, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Javert2113:

-There isn't a lack of coverage in reliable sources.

-Sustained coverage isn't a criteria for companies/promotions and neither is coverage in specific countries or languages.

-Not every thing requires a wiki page is true but if a thing passes the requirements it can have one. And this is one of those cases.

Reasoning for the delete and salt votes baffle me.

Again half of the previous AfDs aren't about the company and/or didn't even reach consensus. Also reasons for those were slightly different than here so past deletions shouldn't bare any weight here. If I registered sock puppet accounts and made a bunch of articles about iPhone asdasd123 and those then got deleted. They wouldn't be reasons to delete the main article for Apple but that seems to be the logic used here for the delete and salt votes. ShadessKB (talk) 13:09, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I say delete due to lack of reliable third person sources.Dwanyewest (talk)
Strong keep - Superkombat still one of the biggest kickboxing in the world and was the main plataform for a lot of kickboxers highly known these days. The event still notable by the kickboxing community and fans, also still delivering high rated fighters like Cristian Spetcu and Adrian Maxim(Wu Lin Feng former champion), as others examples Mfnuf 8 June 2018
Comment I have been involved in some, but not all, of the previous AfD discussions and I'd like to make a few points based on the comments I'm reading here. The fact that this promotion's main article has had 3 previous deletion discussions is an indication that its notability is highly questioned, but doesn't mean it should automatically be deleted again (if its sourcing has been significantly improved). Most of the article's current sources appear to be routine sports reporting of results and fight announcements, which is insufficient to show notability. Some of the claims of being notable also focus on being nominated for some "promotion of the year awards" which are of dubious notability. Also, claiming the promotion is notable because of who has fought in one of its events runs afoul of WP:NOTINHERITED. I would propose that those who claim this promotion is notable simply list a few of the articles that show significant, independent coverage in reliable sources. If the promotion is as notable as claimed, these should not be hard to find. If they can't be found, then Superkombat doesn't meet WP:GNG and is not WP notable. Papaursa (talk) 22:49, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

-It's written in the article, best promotion of the year 2011 and nominated again in 2016. From today's Liverkick article, which is one of the largest kickboxing newspapers if not the largest: SuperKombat - one of the kickboxing meccas of the world and it seems that now it's the first kickboxing promotion which will make movies with its fighters (just like the UFC, K-1 didn't do that in the sport). SuperKombat announced on Tuesday the formation of SuperFilm, a brand of the SK Global family, in conjunction with Hollywood producers Moshe Diamant & Christopher Milburn. Maybe you know Moshe Diamant a huge producer for Van Damme, Lundgren and others. They will be all over the Unites States now. Eduard Irimia Establishes SuperFilm Alongside Seasoned Producers Some users only talk about Great Britain in Europe but Superkombat got recognition there by The Mirror or some other gazzettes and also in Europe there is not only England. Marca (newspaper) article for instance: Frank Muñoz, campeón mundial de Superkombat Or in Gazeta Sporturilor, Prosport, tons of articles. I believed as a kickboxing promotion they are a lot more covered than the other promotions of Europe. After all we had the opinions of some kickboxing users on this section of comments. It's a win-win situation for all, Wikipedia gets traffic also with kickboxing, and the readers/ followers are also happy since kickboxing has no Boxrec. ILoveCasablanca (talk • contribs) 09:50, 13 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:17, 13 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

strong keep Papaursa claims I would propose that those who claim this promotion is notable simply list a few of the articles that show significant, independent coverage in reliable sources. If the promotion is as notable as claimed, these should not be hard to find. You don't understand the problematics (hope your're not an admin). Here is an example. You have wiki on kim kardashian. She is obviously considered wikinotable (regardless my opinion, she is well known). Do you know how hard it is nowadays to find her full sex tape, now after all those years. Of someone "so notable". Finding resources for many sports is more difficult as years pass because they are not adequately kept. Even of huge sports; exceptions are some "american sports" like baseball and football, soccer and some more. That is wiki's value. And all this talk about notability. Can you not think for yourselves??? If its champions and competitors later became champions of the biggest kickboxing organization does it not say something. Do you need a front page cover of NY times that says "hey wiki's (name of admin), (name of subject) is notable". Unable of deduction, are you?? 213.149.61.204 (talk) 15:23, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest you read WP:N which gives the basic description of what's required to show notability. It's not about who or what you or I consider notable, it's about what the rest of the world has deemed worth of notice. The fact that you imply sources can't be found supports the argument that the topic is not notable. Also remember, this isn't about individual fighters--it's about the organization itself. Papaursa (talk) 23:03, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.