The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. postdlf (talk) 19:01, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wang Xiwen

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Classical WP:ONEVENT. No lasting notability. All necessary details can and are included in List of rampage killers: Asia. Rampage killers are, unfortunately, not very rare and therefore being one does not necessarily make a person notable. Randykitty (talk) 15:59, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:10, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:PERP. Wang Xiwen was a follower of the Gang of Four and carried out the attack as retaliation for the upcoming trial of its members. He was publicly tried as a counter-revolutionary in front of an audience of 50,000 people, so I suppose his crime and his trial can be considered at least somehwat unusual. To claim "no lasting notability" can at best be a guess on your part based on an absence of English language sources, but since western media had and still has almost no interest in major criminal cases in China this can hardly be considered evidence of lacking notability. On the contrary, the fact that the New York Times bothered enough to publish an article about him tells me that it must've been quite a sensation in China. And just because the article is a stub does not mean that all necessary information can be included in the List of rampage killers. There is more information available and it may be expanded over time, but you have to start somehow. (Lord Gøn (talk) 17:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Comment As far as I see, I could have said in the nom: "delete per WP:PERP". Xiwen obviously does not fall into any of the exceptions mentioned in that guideline. Indeed, absence of evidence of notability does not mean proof that there isn't any. However, it even less means that "something must be out there". The onus here is to show notability. Proving absence of something is almost impossible. In any case, nothing suggests any lasting notability: all sources are from around the time of the event, nothing suggests that this case still garners interest, in western media or in China. --Randykitty (talk) 20:25, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, neither 1985, nor 1986 is "around the time of the event", it's years later, and if you think that you could as well have based your nomination on WP:Perp, then your interpretation of the guideline is definitely different than mine. I suppose you have not checked any of the more detailed sources, because if you would've, you probably would not exclaim with such certainty that it "obviously does not fall into any of the exceptions". Also you said "No lasting notability", not "the given sources are not sufficient to establish notability". It is true that notability has to be proven, but it is also true that your absolutist statement is completely unfounded and based on mere speculation. The subject may very well be notable, even if you don't accept the given sources as proof of notability. That said I have given various secondary sources that report about the case, some of them fairly detailed, and as I said, even today it would be highly unusual for a western newspaper to report about such a crime being committed in China, it is certainly more unusual for the year 1981, and the few exceptions are generally high profile cases. I don't know, maybe it was common in China at that time that trials filled entire stadiums, but if not, I would say that it is more than just a baseless assumption that this was a sensationalist case that was allowed to get significant publicity in order to make an example. (Lord Gøn (talk) 22:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 16:41, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:PERP.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:45, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 15:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 23:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.