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May 12

Category:Eastern Orthodox churches

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: split as suggested by Johnbod. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:59, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Eastern Orthodox churches (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Split / rename. Needs to be two spereate cats: Eastern Orthodox church buildings and Eastern Orthodox national churches or some such. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 22:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.



Category:Category maintenance templates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge both into Category:Category namespace templates. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Category header templates
Category:Category maintenance templates
These are sub-cats of Category:Category namespace templates

These two should be merged or renamed, or "something".

The names are currently just too ambiguous. How do we define maintenance? And what's a "header" in this case? Any template that appears on the "page" of the category?What about navboxes? (And the infamous the alphabet strip.)

I think a place to start would be to create a category of of "category header message boxes". (See: Template:cmbox.) With the rest UpMerged. We can then decide later about whether it's necessary to further split the parent.

Yes I could have boldly done this (and I started to), but I decided to bring it here for more discussion first. (For one thing, I'd like suggestions as to the name of the new messagebox category.)

If there is consensus, once both cats are upmerged to the parent, I'd be happy to help populate the proposed new cmbox/messagebox category. - jc37 21:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Albums in the 33⅓ series

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Close. No consensus. Clearly neither main position was to keep as is. Consider relisting for new discussion, and make it clear up front what is being proposed. Doczilla STOMP! 08:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Albums in the 33⅓ series (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Books are written about famous records; the records aren't famous for having books written about them. Flowerparty☀ 21:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Luxembourgian football players

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 12:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Luxembourgian football players to Category:Luxembourgian footballers
Nominator's rationale: Follow convention, see Category:European football (soccer) players. Chanheigeorge (talk) 19:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Robin Hood figures

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Wizardman 03:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Robin Hood figures (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete - categorizing characters on the basis of their supposed resemblance to another fictional character is overcategorization. It requires POV on the part of editors to decide that a particular character is sufficiently similar to another. It also gives Anglo-centric undue weight to Robin Hood. Why is Robin Hood deemed the archetype and not another character? Otto4711 (talk) 12:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
RFC: In fact please comment here on my suggested rename even if you disagree, as otherwise I've half a mind to recreate it by the new name if deleted. - Fayenatic (talk) 21:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Irish (Gaeilge) language speakers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 12:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Irish (Gaeilge) language speakers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Cat doesn't meet WP:CAT norms. Cat attributes should be specific, neutral, inclusive and verifiable. This cat (and it's contents) fail this. Other problems with this cat are:
  1. Relevance - Cats should be relevant to subject's notability. Being an Irish speaker is not a notable attribute.
  2. Verifiability - What standard of Irish would warrant a subject's inclusion in this article? And how do we verify it?
  3. Over-population - Anyone who went to school in Ireland since 1920s was taught Irish. Ostensibly approaching 100% of Irish people could be included - depending on their "proficiency" with the language. (See problem 2 above).
  4. Precedence. We have no category for Spanish speakers or English speakers or similar. For the same reasons. It's just not appropriate. Unsure why Irish is different.
Guliolopez (talk) 12:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You must know more hard-studying Irish people than I do, as most claim virtually-complete ignorance of the language. Welsh is also compulsory in many Welsh schools, often including all in an area. I suspect the same is true in a few parts of Scotland. Most people in developed countries have to study a language other than their mother tongue at school; few end up as "speakers" of it. Johnbod (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An school pupil in England may start learning a language in school, usually for an hour or two per week, though, beginning usually in secondary school. In Irish schools, the Irish language is compulsory from the start of primary school, and it gets a lot of time allocated to it. Sure, lots of people never use the language outside the classroom, and for many (most?) adults, the Irish gets rusty fairly quickly. But even so, all that schooling leaves its mark, and nearly everyone has enough competence to speak at least rudimentary-Irish, even if in practice they don't do so and have no interest in doing so, which is why so many folks claim ignorance. Their exam certificates usually tell a different story. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Muslim atheists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. At first, knowing the definition of "Muslim" and "Atheist", I figured there was no reason for this category. But reading the keep comments, and the Cultural Muslim article, I've determined that there are in fact people who follow the practices not out of religious beliefs, but for other reasons, and therefore can in fact, be atheists as well. Neither side had particularly strong reasons for keeping or deleting, hence the no consensus. The strongest arguments from what I can see are the ones who wanted to rename it, but those opinions were few. Kbdank71 13:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Muslim atheists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: There is no concept called "Muslim atheist". If these persons are atheist, then they are not followers of any religion including Islam, hence they are not Muslim. It can be renamed to Category:Atheists with Islamic background. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 08:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Have you looked at the definition of Muslim. A Muslim is "an adherent of the religion of Islam". Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 08:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not as simple or black and white as that, I don't think. Real life is more complex, especially when we're dealing with what people do and believe. There are Cultural Muslims, which is why I brought it up in the first place. One can adhere to many of the religious aspects of Islam but not be a "believer". In fact, one could even be an atheist and yet adhere to many of the religious duties, traditions, and expectations of Islam. I'm going to have to say keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:03, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have Category:Christian atheists and such a category would be essentially illogical. "Jewish" works because it is also an ethnicity. The only other example I can think of like that are theParsis. So Category:Parsi atheists could be okay, but I don't even think that exists. We do not have Category:Mormon atheists even though we have an article for Cultural Mormons. We also don't have Category:Bahá'í atheists, Category:Sikh atheists, or even a Category:Taoist atheists. (That last being quite plausible)--T. Anthony (talk) 12:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you think you're being a tad melodramatic? They can still be in Category:Former Muslims and Category:Atheists. As a category this intersection is potentially both contradictory and unnecessary. It's also essentially unique. We don't have Category:Christian atheists, Category:Hindu atheists or Category:Shinto atheists. Further there isn't even a Muslim atheist article, it's just a redirect to Cultural Muslim.--T. Anthony (talk) 04:27, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not entirely certain this is sufficiently notable, but I'd be fine with the category you propose.--T. Anthony (talk) 05:40, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with Cgingold. Taslima Nasrin and other people in the category are not cultural Muslims. People like Nasrin are strictly secular. This type of categories is extremely misleading. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 08:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it might help if you re-read the article on Cultural Muslims -- the whole point is that they are secular, so there's no contradiction. Cgingold (talk) 11:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Fine" was maybe overstating it. I guess I just meant I really wouldn't vote/state/whatever-we-call-it either way on such a category.--T. Anthony (talk) 10:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Central midfielders

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: upmerge. Kbdank71 13:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Central midfielders (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: How to define Central? A Defensive Midfielder like Yaya, Vieira, or a Attacking playmaker? Or like Gerrard who have both? I think it is over-categorization. Matthew_hk tc 06:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Australian drug lords

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Kbdank71 13:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Australian drug lords (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Category:Australian drug traffickers already exists and this category merely duplicates that. Longhair\talk 03:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • In which case they should probably be in Category:Fooian drug cartel leaders rather than the sensationalistic Drug lords formulation. Otto4711 (talk) 23:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Drug lord" is sensationalistic? (Pls, don't interpret this as a sarcastic question — I'm sincerely asking ...) I thought "drug lord" (or "drug baron", used sometimes in the UK) was fairly well-accepted shorthand for the position, kind of like "pimp" or "madam" is used instead of "Fooian prostitution ring leaders". Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Al Khalifa

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:House of Khalifa. Kbdank71 13:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Al Khalifa to Category:Al Khalifa family or Category:House of Khalifa
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Since this is a family category, we need something that indicates it as such. Since it is a royal family, it could alternatively be renamed after the main article House of Khalifah. I favor the "house of" option but either would be acceptable. Notified creator with ((subst:cfd-notify)) Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Television networks by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: close. There is support for this, as far as three people can be called consensus, which some people will question. Regardless, even though the three people here are ok with the mass rename, I know there are others who prefer "Fooish everything" (as opposed to "everything of foo"), and considering the severe lack of notification (one talk page notification and this cfd, which isn't exactly clear on what is going to happen), we should probably go through a proper CFD for the subcats (tag, nominate, etc). There is at least one bot (not mine) who can do a mass tagging, but I don't remember which one it is. Kbdank71 13:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest affirming that this Category:Television networks by country should be named as it is. If so, then all its 33 subcategories need to be renamed in the style 'Television networks of (country)'. Currently, the subcats are named as '(Nationality) television networks' which means that this category should be renamed as Category:Television networks by nationality. If there is agreement that the category name is correct, does someone have a tool to easily put a CfD notice on each of the subcats and add them here for their renaming? Hmains (talk) 00:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If such a consensus is clearly established, then the subcategories wouldn't need to come here for a week of full discussion, but could all be speedy-renamed. I'd suggest "Television networks in (country)" rather than of, though. Bearcat (talk) 15:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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