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May 17

Category:Child actors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Child actors (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: For the same reason as Category:Fictional children, because children grow up and although some gain notability while they are still minors, others stay notable long after they become adults. The category is far too broad to be useful or verifiable because it is not possible to define its boundaries. For An Angel (talk) 22:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • How long it's been around is not relevant. Why does the nomination rationale make little sense when applied to this category but makes perfect sense when applied to the Fictional children category? In both cases the problem is the same; what constitutes a child is too vague. For An Angel (talk) 23:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The argument assumes facts not in evidence: that rationale makes no sense in the other CFD, either. Cgingold (talk) 23:21, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Breeders' Cup Distaff winners

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Breeders' Cup Distaff winners to Category:Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic winners
Nominator's rationale: Rename. The race has officially been renamed the Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic, effective with the upcoming 2008 Breeders' Cup. Have noted the name change in the category lead-in. Dale Arnett (talk) 19:35, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:List of people with Erdős-Bacon numbers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete without listifying because list already exists. Doczilla STOMP! 07:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:List of people with Erdős-Bacon numbers to Category:People with Erdős-Bacon numbers
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Basic naming convention case. BigBlueFish (talk) 17:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Always room for you :) Johnbod (talk) 21:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You might also consider creating a nav-box template, which is sort of a cross between a category and a list-article. (Of course, that might run into opposition too -- one never knows.) Cgingold (talk) 18:17, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's going overboard. As an article it's sourced and I believe it has sufficient notability. See The Telegraph, Oakland University, and several mathematicians home pages. Searching for "Erdoes-Bacon" got me around 3000 g-hits.--T. Anthony (talk) 02:26, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Alumni of the University of Vienna

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest merging Category:Alumni of the University of Vienna to Category:University of Vienna alumni
Nominator's rationale: Merge, for consistency with the other categories in Category:Alumni by university or college in Austria. UV (talk) 15:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Salt pans

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: No Consensus to merge - I've done some "on-wiki" research concerning this. There seems to be, at least, a slight semantic difference between the two terms. (Further confusing the issue is Open pan salt making, which also uses the word "salt pan", but to describe a tool of sorts.) Salt flat currently redirects to playa. (Which was done back in 2004 by User:Finlay McWalter.) There apparently was a suggestion to merge Salt pan (geology) to playa by the same user in 2004/2005. Salt pan is a dab page, listing both Salt pan (geology) and Salt evaporation pond. Talk:Salt pan (geology) has some interesting information, and there is a discussion at Talk:Black Rock Desert#Playa/Dry Lake/Mud Flat/Alkali Flat/Salt Pan concerning the nominator recently adding Black Rock Desert to Category:Salt_pans. I took both discussions into account in this closure. (Re-affirming - though in reverse - Vegaswikian's comment that each process may reflect on the other.) So as I mentioned at the start, there seems to be a semantic difference here. It looks like the several articles need some cleanup and specification to clarify the terminology. At this point, no merge (category or article) should take place without verifiable, reliably sourced, references concerning the terms. (I'm also wondering if this could possibly be an issue of varieties of English which may also need clarifying. See also: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (spelling)#International organizations.) - jc37 21:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest merging Category:Salt pans to Category:Salt flats
Nominator's rationale: Merge and redirect. Some entries in one category are mentioned as examples of the other in the lead articles Playa (current redirect target from salt flat) and Salt pan (geology). The article Salt lake refers to Salt flat and Salt pan as the same thing. Talk:Salt pan (geology) has an article merge proposal that was rejected because Playa is not the same thing as Salt flat, but does not distinguish Salt flat and Salt pan. Fixing the articles may take more effort or need expert help, but we can merge the categories without waiting for that. Fayenatic (talk) 15:52, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Punk houses

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Wizardman 01:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Punk houses (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete - small category with little hope of expansion, given that the only articles in it are the lead article and a song article which doesn't belong. The concept of Punk house is pretty nebulous and the category is unnecessary. Otto4711 (talk) 14:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't believe that Die Slaughterhaus Records supports its inclusion in the category. Even if it did, we are still talking about a grand total of four articles, all of which are listed in the main article. The small number of articles, the low potential for expansion, the interlinkages between the various articles and the vague definition of "punk house" (for all intents and purposes, "a place where punks live") all argue against the category. Otto4711 (talk) 22:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Punk filmmakers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Listify and Delete. Consensus is to delete. However it is reasonable to allow Cgingold say 5 days to listify. If not done by then it can be deleted. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Punk filmmakers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete - categorizing filmmakers based on the genre or style in which they direct is untenable. Directors can direct in any number of genres and categorizing them on that basis will lead to dozens of such categories on a director's article. Otto4711 (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wow, how on earth did I miss that? I actually looked, but somehow didn't see it. (Which goes to show how easy it can be for a reader to miss seeing a category that s/he is looking for... ) That being the case, the argument for deletion is seriously undermined. Cgingold (talk) 23:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see -- I was looking for "filmmakers", and you're talking about "directors". I presume most if not all of these people are, in fact, directors -- so I've added Category:Film directors by genre as a parent cat. Perhaps we should be talking about renaming to Category:Punk film directors?? Cgingold (talk) 23:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • How is the argument undermined? Are directors or filmmakers limited in the genres they can direct? No. Will directors end up with every category for every genre they've ever directed? Seems highly likely. The existence of a bad category tree is not an argument for keeping its constituent categories. Otto4711 (talk) 23:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:German Christian Democrat politicians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Split per nom. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:German Christian Democrat politicians (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: The term can apply to politicians of at least three different parties, and in order to match interwikis and for further accuracy, the category should be split in three; Category:German Christian Democratic Union politicians, Category:Bavarian Christian Social Union politicians and Category:Politicians of the Christian Democratic Union (GDR). Soman (talk) 14:10, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, split. --Relata refero (disp.) 19:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Images with fair use claims

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This category only has 21 pages in it. This is because it is only used by one template. There are far more images with fair use claims than that, so it is currently rather useless. Since all non-free media should have a fair use claim it would seem to be redundant to Category:All non-free media anyway -- Gurchzilla (talk) 12:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Americans in Germany

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge per nom. I am taking no position on the delete, but it is clear that there is no consensus to keep two categories. If anyone wants to propose a deletion of the remaining category after the merge, feel free to do so. My close is in no way an objection to deletion if there is consensus for that which is not present in this discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest merging Category:Americans in Germany to Category:American expatriates in Germany
Nominator's rationale: the later matches the standard naming for such cat pages. (was populated actually with Germans of American descent - have removed these links, now this page is empty) Mayumashu (talk) 03:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, that is for people living in America. Hmains, where are you now? Johnbod (talk) 14:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Americans of German-Irish ethnicity

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose delete Category:Americans with German-Irish ethnicity
Nominator's rationale: incidental intersection of two unrelated ethnicities; having this cat page would set precedent for an infinite no. of potential combinations Mayumashu (talk) 02:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Royal Norwegian Navy ships captured by Nazi Germany during World War II

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Consensus to rename - but not directly to what the target should be. Indirectly, however, there were some key points that had distinct consensus.

The overwhelming sense to the discussion is the wish to follow current conventions, and to be as accurate as possible without the name becoming "unweildy".

Category:World War II naval ships and its subcats (such as Category:World War II naval ships of Norway) seem to define the current convention for WWII.

That said, Category:Naval ships of Norway doesn't seem to have a "convention", in that its subcats seem to vary between conventions.

And the similar Category:Vessels captured from the United States Navy doesn't follow either convention, and seems to be general without historical reference.

And just as use of "Royal Norwegian Navy" wouldn't follow convention, neither would use of "Nazi Germany".

So per the above, the strongest consensus seems to be to have the category name contain the following:

This would give us:

This, while presumably accurate, and following the conventions, is rather lengthy, and would seem to be contrary to the wish for the name to not be "unwieldy".

Since the intent of the category seems to be more interested in when the ships were captured, the antecedantal usage of WWII may be removed, while still retaining accuracy.

We can also shorten "naval ships of Germany" to "Germany", since the intent of the category doesn't appear concerned whether a "ship" was what captured the naval ships of Norway.

Which now gives us:

As this name would appear to fulfill the overall consensual "wish" of those commenting below, I'm closing this with the result of:

Rename Category:Royal Norwegian Navy ships captured by Nazi Germany during World War II to Category:Naval ships of Norway captured by Germany during World War II

- jc37 00:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Category:Royal Norwegian Navy ships captured by Nazi Germany during World War II (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Sounds like a good idea to me to drop the during World War II. I feel this is a needed category as the Germans captured many Norwegian warships in 1940, far from all have Wikipedia articles just yet, and listing them at Category:World War II naval ships of Germany looked a bit odd to me. Manxruler (talk) 03:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
...although it seems to be standard to use of "country", so perhaps Category:Naval ships of Norway captured by Nazi Germany? Manxruler (talk) 03:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then I suppose the first alternative I proposed, Category:World War II naval ships of Norway captured by Nazi Germany, would be most suitable? 20:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)Manxruler (talk)
Yes, I think it is. --Wulf Isebrand (talk) 18:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm okay with this alternate name if that's what other editors prefer. Cgingold (talk) 03:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional species

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:Fictional life forms. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional species (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • There's an awful lot in there that falls outside the concept of "species" -- so if this is to serve as the parent cat for all of them, the name needs to be broadened. Unless you think it would make sense to keep Category:Fictional species as a sub-cat of Category:Fictional life forms, with the non-species content being moved into the new parent cat. Cgingold (talk) 03:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can see the logic of the ultimate parent being Fictional life forms, why not just create it atop the current tree, rather than doing it this way? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • In principle I would be amenable to doing that. Roughly half of the sub-categories would need to be moved either way -- not a major concern. However, there are around 160 individual articles that need to be sorted out, and it would be much better to have them in the broader category while they're being sorted. If a bot can be assigned to move all of them into the new parent cat I guess we can handle it that way -- so basically, whichever route/solution requires less hands-on work. Cgingold (talk) 10:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Names of gods

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Names of gods (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Useless duplicate of Category:Deities and its many dozens of subcategories, created as a POV response to Category:Names of God. -Sean Curtin (talk) 01:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently you failed to pay attention that Category:Names of gods is for specific personal names of gods. Therefore, Category:Names of gods and Category:Deities should stay.--71.108.31.176 (talk) 02:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As opposed to what? The surnames? Johnbod (talk) 02:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose Human and specific names of humans are the same to you. Therefore, we might as well call all humans "Human." The Category:Names of God is inaccurate because it pigeonholes all belief systems into a monotheistic system and doesn't jibe with the included articles.User:Names of gods--71.108.31.176 (talk)
If you'd read Names of God before you tried deleting the article and corresponding category, you would note that the topic isn't restricted to monotheistic interpretations of the concept of a singular or supreme God. -Sean Curtin (talk) 02:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have discussed the mattter at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_May_16#Category:Names_of_God. Over there, you stated, " Belief in a singular God is not unique to monotheistic religions," which essentially is a way of selling the notion of "that all religions of the world worship the same god under different names." User:Names of gods71.108.31.176 (talk) 03:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Evolution by organism

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Evolution by organism to Category:Evolution by taxa
Nominator's rationale: Rename. A more appropriate title seems to be 'evolution by species', as an organism must belong to a species, and organisms as individuals don't evolve. Given that many of the articles are not about species, but about classes, phyla etc, the name 'evolution by taxa' seems the most appropriate. Richard001 (talk) 01:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:List of fish on stamps of Afghanistan

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:List of fish on stamps of Afghanistan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Don't see a reason to categorize this. Non-defining characteristic. Why fish as opposed to any other animal/object? Sets precedent to create any "List of x on stamps of (country)" category. Additionally, no idea why this category should start with "List of". Overall, worthless on several levels, and only created because it was in Special:Wantedcategories. VegaDark (talk) 00:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But look at some of the similar categories that seem to exist: Category:Lists of people on stamps, Category:Lists of birds appearing on stamps by country, and yes, Category:Lists of fish on stamps (which includes List of fish on stamps of Afghanistan); no precedent is needed!). It looks like you are proposing more for deletion than you might have realized. Richard001 (talk) 01:52, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did, but your confusion appears to be catching. Johnbod (talk) 14:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.