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February 1

Category:Immigration-related organizations

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 15:24, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming:
Nominator's rationale: The category holds articles and subcategories related to both Immigration and Emigration. Also, the immigration to the host country is the emigration from the previous one. The direction will be reversed if expatriates return at a later point. While there are organizations concerned with one or the other, there are also organizations related to both aspects, so we need a comprehensive category first, before possibly subdividing it further. After the rename, the category should live in Category:Human migration. --PanchoS (talk) 22:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC) Changed "in foo" to "based in foo" to avoid ambiguity. --PanchoS (talk) 22:55, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Avenues

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: upmerge/delete all except Category:Avenues and Category:Avenues in Paris. There's consensus to keep and rename Category:Avenues in Paris to Category:Avenues (landscape) in Paris. There's no consensus to delete Category:Avenues, mostly because most editors supporting deletion didn't specify what to do if Paris was kept. No prejudice against speedy renomination to address what should be done with Category:Avenues. There was no opposition to the rename of Category:Avenues to Category:Avenues (landscape), so rename as well. (non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk 06:12, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge/rename as I wonder whether avenues are so much different from streets that they deserve a separate category. I'd rather treat this as a case of WP:SHAREDNAME. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_April_29#Category:Avenues, and perhaps other previous discussions - it is the nominator's job to check for these. Johnbod (talk) 22:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avenue (landscape) is a tree-lined street not only in French, but also in English. The term just has been excessively utilized as part of street names, but real avenues still do exist in English-speaking countries, and are usually identified as "avenues". See below. --PanchoS (talk) 12:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apologies for not checking. But I do not understand the question, since I am proposing to merge/rename (and then to delete the empty parents). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:10, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Hungarian articles took the word "út" translated that into English to "Avenues" and then this category took it to mean the French "avenue" even those the pictures of those streets don't have trees. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the nominated upmerge/rename won't go ahead, I find this an interesting second best option. In that case, I would expect we no longer need a breakdown by city. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:36, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose to that - it's a completely made-up term Johnbod (talk) 11:19, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:IE

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename and restructure. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:19, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This requires a few changes, but I'm not sure which. Deletion may be a good step for now until it can be sorted out. First of all, whatever this is describing isn't a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for IE, so it needs renaming. But to what? What's the topic of the category supposed to be? IE Business School is sorted at the top. But Category:IE University is its subcat, and according to the business school article, IE University is the parent organization. IE seems to stand for Instituto de Empresa, but that redirects to the business school as a former name. Thoughts? BDD (talk) 20:33, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ice hockey players of black African descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 22:50, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Almost a C2D with Black players in ice hockey and List of black NHL players. While "black African" is more narrow than just "black", there's consensus that these lists would include any black people. And as a side note, there are very few ice hockey players who are of African descent but not black, or vice versa. BDD (talk) 15:17, 1 February 2016 (UTC) Fixed two links in the nominator's rationale. --PanchoS (talk) 18:25, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Food and drink/beverage

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename/merge using "food and drink", e.g. Category:Food and drink companies by year of establishment; no consensus on merging Category:Food and drink festivals by type. (I inserted hyphens into Category:Food- and drink-related lists per MOS:HYPHEN, similar to the nomination for organizations.) – Fayenatic London 07:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging:
  • Category:Food companies by year of disestablishment and Category:Beverage companies by year of disestablishment to Category:Food and beverage companies by year of disestablishment
18 further, per year of (dis-)establishment subcategories
  • Category:Food companies established in 1770 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1770 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1770
  • Category:Food companies established in 1817 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1817 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1817
  • Category:Food companies established in 1842 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1842 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1842
  • Category:Food companies established in 1843 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1843 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1843
  • Category:Food companies established in 1875 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1875 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1875
  • Category:Food companies established in 1903 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1903 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1903
  • Category:Food companies established in 1971 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1971 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1971
  • Category:Food companies established in 1974 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1974 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1974
  • Category:Food companies established in 1981 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1981 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1981
  • Category:Food companies established in 1998 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1998 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1998
  • Category:Food companies established in 1999 and Category:Beverage companies established in 1999 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 1999
  • Category:Food companies established in 2000 and Category:Beverage companies established in 2000 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 2000
  • Category:Food companies established in 2002 and Category:Beverage companies established in 2002 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 2002
  • Category:Food companies established in 2004 and Category:Beverage companies established in 2004 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 2004
  • Category:Food companies established in 2006 and Category:Beverage companies established in 2006 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 2006
  • Category:Food companies established in 2008 and Category:Beverage companies established in 2008 to Category:Food and beverage companies established in 2008
  • Category:Food companies disestablished in 1950 and Category:Beverage companies disestablished in 1950 to Category:Food and beverage companies disestablished in 1950
  • Category:Food companies disestablished in 2005 and Category:Beverage companies disestablished in 2005 to Category:Food and beverage companies disestablished in 2005
  • Propose renaming:
Nominator's rationale: We might want to make our categorization scheme in the food and beverage sector more consistent. "Food" is usually defined as not including drinks or beverages, unless focussing the mere nutritional aspect (then excluding water). Both culturally and economically, the two however remain distinct while closely related.
I initially intended to further harmonize the terminology, but the subtle differences between the two widely adopted terms "Food and drink" vs. "Food and beverage" need further discussion. Still me proposal streamlines quite some category structures to some good common denominator, so they can be further developped without the ruptures and inconsistencies of the previously scattered and currently still incongruent categories.
Note that I left out the individual by-location and possibly some by-year subcategories to be subsequently speedy renamed per WP:C2C. PanchoS (talk) 14:57, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think this could be a great proposal. I previously built Category:Lists of food and drink festivals based on the precedent set by other categories, so I agree the parent category is confusing as is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Earflaps (talk • contribs) 17:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the parent category should be named "food and beverage" or "food and drink" so as to capture both types of events under one umbrella. Some existing subcategories are still useful, how, such as Category:Wine festivals, Category:Beer festivals. I also believe that Category:Food and drink festivals by type should remain a subset of the parent, so as to highlight themed events such as for specific fruits, etc.Jllm06 (talk) 19:30, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Jllm06: I purposely didn't nominate the by-type subcategories of Category:Food and drink festivals by type and agree they should be kept. They can live directly in Category:Food and drink festivals though, as that intermediate container category is unnecessary. --PanchoS (talk) 21:39, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Side note that I've been trying to avoid container "type" categories for festivals as much as possible, except in cases like Category:Music festivals by genre, where there are just too many to not do so. But at the same time, the food types category does fit really nicely at the top of Category:Festivals by type page, which may make it easier for folks to see the food section right away. Earflaps (talk) 00:03, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd love to standardize on one or the other, but in a number of (more cultural) areas "Food and drinks" prevails, while in other (more technical) areas "Food and beverage" is clearly more common. We shouldn't try to do too much at once, otherwise we won't get a consensus at all. --PanchoS (talk) 00:10, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I approve. Prefer food and drink. I doubt that the distinction between drink and beverage, if there is one, holds good in most of the world. The OED defines beverage as drink. Rathfelder (talk) 15:05, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Garden festivals

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic London 13:49, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging:
Nominator's rationale: Redundant categorization schemes: How are "garden festivals" distinguished from "horticultural exhibitions"? How are "flower festivals" distinguished from "flower shows"? We can pick the more appropriate name, but either way these should be merged.
Also, the per-country subcategories are clearly underpopulated and it is unlikely to change soon. In the latter case, no prejudice against recreation at a later point, though. --PanchoS (talk) 12:41, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pinging the creator, Earflaps, as I co-nominated some subcategories. --PanchoS (talk) 13:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I agree differences within horticultural exhibitions exist, most of these are basically garden festivals. For example, the Bundesgartenschau is a festival marketed to the general public with up to 3.5 million attendees (de:Bundesgartenschau 2011). The Bloom Festival in Ireland or the Melbourne International Flower and Garden Show are slightly smaller but basically no different. --PanchoS (talk) 13:15, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Most or even the majority being similar, however, I don't see as a rationale to equate as the same thing. Most music events are concerts, but that doesn't mean all "concerts" and "music events" should be merged into one category. And I suspect a lot of "exhibition" organizers try and make their smallish events seem larger and more impressive by using the word festival (like how US rock concert organizers used to do in the 1960s and 70s), but even if the industry often blurs them together, I don't think we need to. Earflaps (talk) 15:38, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I frankly don't understand your question. None of my nominations has anything to do with Category:Festivals in the United Kingdom. Also, I'm proposing to dual-upmerge underpopulated per-country-categories, so your concern seems baseless. --PanchoS (talk) 13:15, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not baseless, misunderstood obviously. I was just using the UK as an example. My point is, the festival tree at large is filled with underpopulated categories - so to start chopping up the country components of random festivals willy nilly, just based on their small size, seems destructive with no purpose. Is the purpose really just to make the parent "garden festival" continent categories easier to scan or something? Because that's what the garden festivals list is for, to allow for easy scanning, while the category trees allow different topics to mesh and be more easily found by browsers, many of whom discover new topics through various country-related categories. Earflaps (talk) 15:33, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "destructive with no purpose"? No. Creating whole schemes of thousands of underpopulated WP:NARROWCATs in an already narrow field simply is a bad idea, impairing both maintenance and usage. WP:Non-diffusing subcategories are no solution to this fundamental problem. They further impede maintenance, and are therefore only used for special not necessarily defining characteristics, but not fur full-blown, all-embracing categorization schemes such as by-country schemes. --PanchoS (talk) 16:12, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Earflaps, the best way to avoid to proposed merge is to much better populate the nominated categories with appropriate articles. Please go ahead with this. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Horticulture for gardens is nothing to do with agriculture. I can see some of you won't leave this alone before finding something to merge, so there is a better suggestion below. Johnbod (talk) 17:59, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, a more sensible idea would have been merging Category:Flower shows into its parent Category:Horticultural exhibitions. All the ones of a size to be notable that I've ever been to cover plenty of other plants, up to trees, as much as the constraints of a temporary show allows, not to mention other stuff like tools and furniture, and the names are generally a poor guide to the contents, though several are called "flower and garden" shows. Johnbod (talk) 15:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Kinda like this idea. Earflaps (talk) 19:07, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Flower shows redirects to Garden festival. How similar or different are these terms in the end? Is this yet another merge possibility? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Only because, as you point out above, there is no horticultural exhibition, though there should be. Maybe if people spent less time fiddling with categories and more time writing articles there would be. They are rather different, as people keep pointing out above. Johnbod (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fireworks festivals by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisting on CFD log for May 21 as discussion is outdated and has no prospect of continuing any further in this venue. Bearcat (talk) 00:47, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Canadian fireworks festivals‎ to Category:Fireworks festivals in Canada
Nominator's rationale: Is this undercoverage or overly fine-grained categorization? Maybe both, but still, while there might be several fireworks festivals in every country (or not – we don't know), it seems unlikely we'd get these per-country categories sufficiently filled soon. So merge up for now without prejudice for recreation in the future, if much more articles exist. PanchoS (talk) 12:07, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sumidagawa Fireworks Festival
  • It is not desirable to intersect all per-topic subcategorization levels with all per-location subcategorization levels. In the end, this will always lead to an artificially blown up tree of underpopulated categories. While much of your recent categorization efforts was really helpful – thanks for your contributions at this point! – in a number of your recent category creations you went to far in intersecting everything with everything. I'm afraid I have to nominate quite a few more of them, while trying to preserve the essence of your efforts rather than wielding the axe. --PanchoS (talk) 13:26, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • You're welcome, thanks for the thanks :) I definitely understand the logic that not all categories should be dissected by location - I've avoided touching most festival topics for that reason, especially the small ones (I prefer all pages in a category on one page, myself). A few festival types, though, I consistently needed to have a home for, on almost every single country festival cats I encountered - "sports festivals," "food festivals," "arts festivals," and "religious festivals" needed fuller trees the most glaringly, as top-level, vaguely defined parent categories with a whole bunch of children, I guess. "Fireworks festival" was one of the few where I kept encountering them, but couldn't think of any sensible parent category, beyond "festivals" itself. I wouldn't object if there was a move to get rid of the fireworks country tree and move fireworks festivals as a child of "cultural festivals" (like how you can always move a "documentary film festival" to the right spot in "film festivals by country," even without the doc festivals organized by location)- just doesn't seem optimal, I guess. Earflaps (talk) 15:52, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wouldn't nominate a category scheme for deletion if its underpopulation is primarily due to undercoverage. But while – as I said in the nomination – it is possible that several fireworks festivals exist in a number of countries, it isn't sure or even likely. We don't even have an article describing what a Fireworks festival is, but clearly it has to be a festival focussing on fireworks, not just culminating in one, as most festivals do. I therefore doubt, Category:Independence Day (United States) festivals can be counted as "fireworks festivals" but still I decided to keep the subcategories Category:Canadian fireworks festivals and Category:Fireworks festivals in the United States for now. Note that we also have Category:Fireworks shows. This is a blatant case of WP:NARROWCAT, and yes, it is harmful to have several of these. --PanchoS (talk) 22:44, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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