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December 18

Category:Suicides by method

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep/do not merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:49, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Even less defining than suicides by occupation. Rathfelder (talk) 20:35, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The total amount of suicides in history is too large to have them all in one category. So as we need to subdivide them by at least one criterion, I think that by method is one of the better candidates, as it is directly related to the suicide topic. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:11, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder: why do we even need to categorize by type of death? This is rarely if ever defining.--User:Namiba 15:22, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with that when it comes to death by most diseases, but suicide is pretty defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:30, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I understand the epidemiology, method is entirely context driven, not defining for the subject. So suicides by jumping off Clifton Suspension Bridge would mean something. Doctors who swallow pills, Category:Suicide bombing certainly, but otherwise I see this as less defining than by occupation. Cant we just have Category:Suicides by country. Or maybe by the cause? Rathfelder (talk) 16:09, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Currently we have by method, by location and by occupation. There is no tree by cause, which is not surprising, that would be hard to define. It is surprising that there is not even a tree by nationality of the subject, instead there is a tree by location, which seems less relevant (in case someone commits suicide abroad). Marcocapelle (talk) 16:53, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • We have at least one cause. As I wrote in an earlier CfD:
    • Do we really want to categorize the reason for suicide? After all, a few categories like Category:LGBT-related suicides will likely be fairly prevalent, but depression-related is inexplicably missing?
    • Moreover, why do we categorize suicides by Continent, and Country, and City?
  • We also categorize Death by Continent, and Country, and City. But the "suicide by" trees aren't merged with the "death by" trees.
  • We do have many Category:Deaths by cause. All the way down to Category:Road incident deaths, which could also be murders or suicides.
  • A simpler approach might be limited to "yyyy death" or "yyyy murder" or "yyyy suicide", Category:Deaths by cause with "Suicides by method" and "Murders by method" merged in the same tree there, and "death by location" limited to city. The city can be under country, and the country under continent. Kill all the other intersection trees. This is navigation, not intersection statistical tables.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:45, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That sounds very reasonable. It does require someone to start a tree of yyyy suicides though. This proposal may require an RFC. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:51, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Easy enough: We already have Category:Suicide by year as a subcategory of Category:Deaths by year. All we need to do is add Category:Murder by year. Done. Now we can minimize at our leasure: just check for both a death and a suicide, or a death and a murder (an easy bot task). I haven't qualified Botryoidal in many years, who has an active bot? WP:RFC says it isn't to be used for categories. So we're stuck with this process, but once we arrive at consensus, we can document a change in guideline (per WP:CFDAI#Process #7).
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:13, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Interesting, we have a Category:Suicides tree and a Category:Suicide tree in parallel. I had not seen the latter. So, there is a Category:Suicide by year indeed, it needs to be expanded to before 1940, and after that is done an exhaustive subcategorization by occupation, method or location is no longer needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:54, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:18, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • With all due respect, you are too much in a hurry.Category:Nazis who committed suicide by method‎ should initially be merged to Category:Nazis who committed suicide‎ since that parent category still exists. Moreover this merge does not solve the existance of the by-method subcategories of Nazi suicides. Finally there should be a manual check that every article in every of its subcats is in a yyyy suicide category. Similar comments will apply to every of these nominations. This requires a very careful approach in order to avoid a WP:TRAINWRECK. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done tagging. Excellent thoughts! Agree that this doesn't fix Nazi sub-sub-categories; those will need to be unravelled later. Agree about ensuring every article should already be in Category:Suicide by year. That should be true in any case, and can be done now! Do we have an available bot?
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:08, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another example why this is not easy: Category:Suicides by firearm‎ and parent Category:Deaths by firearm‎ are both subcatted by country. This implies you have to nominate all country subcategories. Don't fix this right now though! The point is that it is far better to start with separate nominations each dealing with one cause, and to think each nomination thoroughly through. Moreover you'd better start with the easiest causes (easy in terms of category tree complexity). Marcocapelle (talk) 15:38, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, I understood that we had also agreed to eliminate "by country" (above). But that should be a separate nomination. I'd thought this was easiest (only 16), as we've already had agreement and it would nicely group the by country for later nominations.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:42, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder, Lugnuts, and Namiba: I've tagged the subcategories, now that we figured out where to put them. This is the simplest first step, followed by other steps for subcategorization intersections later to avoid WP:TRAINWRECK. What say you?
William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:53, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's all been prepared for choosing those individual methods.
    1. So you want to keep Suicides by self-immolation‎ and delete Deaths from fire?
    2. And keep Suicide bombers subsubcategory, but delete parents Suicides by explosive device and Deaths by explosive device‎?
    3. Also delete Suicides by hanging‎ instead of merging?
  • That will leave a lot of them without a cause of death, so I'm not sure it won't be problematic later on. Any others?
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 23:10, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nobody denies that. The question at stake is if we should delete some and keep others. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remember, the suicide is already recorded in the Category:Suicide by year tree.
    1. This is a mostly meaningless redundant intersection.
    2. There are no individual biographies of Nazis in either Category:Nazis who committed suicide by method‎ or Category:Nazis by cause of death‎. Those only contain subcategories.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 20:50, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films about nuclear accidents and incidents

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:22, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Films about nuclear accidents and incidents to Category:Films about fictional nuclear accidents and incidents
Nominator's rationale: Category appears to be intended for fictional nuclear incidents. I note that it has Category:Nuclear accidents in fiction as a parent category, so either this category's name should be clarified or the tree needs to be restructured a bit. Alternately, the latter category could be created (and most entries moved to it), as a subcategory of the former. DonIago (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In light of the above, I'll give it a couple more days in case other options present themselves. Otherwise I'll plan to withdraw this CfD and remove the fictional parent category. Thanks! DonIago (talk) 18:32, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Italian painters by city

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:19, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: "Fooish" categories are generally reserved for national categories. People from Foo is generally used for anything below that level, and is used in all the other subcategories of Category:Italian people by occupation and city. No obvious reason why Italian painters should be treated differently. The various categories contain comments along the lines of "This list encompasses Italian painters of the School of Brescia who during 1400-1900, demonstrate influences from both Venice and Milan." and "This category encompasses painters active in the Northern Italian city of Cremona". This is a bit confusing. If it's sensible to subcategorize by schools of painting then I think the categories should make that clearer. Perhaps they could be called "Painters of the Brescian School", along the lines of Category:Schools of Japanese art? And at present Category:Painters from Milan redirects to Category:Milanese painters, so its not clear what we are supposed to do with those who were not "active in Milan between 1400-1800". NB I know nothing about Italian painting so would be grateful for guidance from those that do. Rathfelder (talk) 15:34, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(Meanwhile the nomination has been expanded.) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:00, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • We dont think any of these mean something other than a geographical description?Rathfelder (talk) 09:36, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Suicides by occupation

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 21#Category:Suicides by occupation

Category:Baseball venues in the Texas Panhandle

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:15, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT (1 article). User:Namiba 14:00, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murdered Milanese mobsters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:14, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging Category:Murdered Milanese mobsters to Category:Mobsters from Milan and Category:Murdered Italian mobsters
Nominator's rationale: Only 2 Milanese mobsters in total, one was murdered. Hopefully there wont be many more. Rathfelder (talk) 11:41, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sports events held in a bubble due to the COVID-19 pandemic

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. —Bagumba (talk) 18:05, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Sports events held in a bubble due to the COVID-19 pandemic to Category:Sports events held in a bio-secure bubble due to the COVID-19 pandemic
Nominator's rationale: Proper term for it is Bio-secure bubble Joseph2302 (talk) 10:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Lutheran congregations

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:13, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging
Nominator's rationale: merge, largely overlapping scope. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:15, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the top example, Altrossgarten Church has a pile of parallel categories:
  1. Category:Baroque church buildings in Germany
  2. Category:Lutheran churches in Königsberg
  3. Category:Protestant congregations established in the 17th century — Lutherans are Protestants.
  4. Category:Religious organizations established in the 1620s — a church is a religious organization, so is a congregation. And why by decade, when the others are by year?
  5. Category:Churches completed in 1624 — we categorize the starting and ending years of construction?
  6. Category:1623 establishments in Europe — we categorize the starting year of "establishment", whatever that means. This is the only article in that category. Yes, Königsberg is in Europe. And probably in some part of Germany in that year?
  7. Category:17th-century Lutheran churches
Let this be an example for consolidating the rest of these massively parallel trees.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:16, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Mayors of places in Japan

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:12, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, just one or two articles in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:11, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illegitimate children of Roman monarchs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:11, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:56, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illegitimate children of Ottoman sultans

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:10, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, only one article in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:53, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Children of sultans

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:09, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OVERLAPCAT, this just duplicates the tree of Category:Children of Ottoman sultans. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:51, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Deniers of Serbian genocide in Croatia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:08, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Deniers of Serbian genocide in Croatia to Category:Deniers of Serbian genocide in the Independent State of Croatia
Nominator's rationale: This was misnamed in the recent renaming. Croatia and the Independent State of Croatia are two separate things. The latter was far larger than Croatia and included all of modern-day Bosnia and Herzegovina and parts of modern-day Serbia. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:58, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Carroll College (Montana)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:05, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I don't see why there's disambiguation in the category. There is no other Carroll College on Wikipedia. There is Carroll College (Wisconsin), which is a redirect to Carroll University, and is housed at Category:Carroll University, so no further disambiguation is required. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:10, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:25, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Destroyed landmarks in Latvia

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 19#Category:Destroyed landmarks in Latvia

Category:Recipients of the Order of the Liberator

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Order of the Liberator
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:PERFCAT, WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:OCAWARD)
When foreign leaders visit Venezuela, or vice versa, the Order of the Liberator is given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit. Albert I of Belgium, Chiang Kai-shek, and Vladimir Putin are not remotely defined by this award. (There are also a few Venezuelan people in the cateogry and, of those, four mention the award in passing 1, 2, 3, 4, one in the lede 5, and one not at all 6, so it's not generally defining for them either.) The contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:NZIA Gold Medal-winning buildings

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:NZIA Gold Medal-winning buildings
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
The New Zealand Institute of Architects gives out a NZIA Gold Medal award each year that in practice goes to major government or non-profit building projects. The buildings generally list the award in the infobox or in passing so it doesn't seem defining. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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