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January 24

Category:History of computing topical overviews

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Category:History of computing topical overviews

Category:Categories by branch

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Category:Categories by branch

Category:Politicians convicted of embezzlement

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: do not merge. MER-C 17:27, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Politicians convicted of embezzlement to Category:Politicians convicted of corruption

Nominator's rationale: As far as politicians are concerned embezzlement is generally a form of corruption. The Corruption categories are better developed, and corruption is a more universal term. Rathfelder (talk) 19:12, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder: so, do you deliberately propose to remove politicians from the tree of Category:People convicted of embezzlement but keep non-politicians in that category? Or should Category:People convicted of embezzlement also be merged to Category:People convicted of corruption? Marcocapelle (talk) 19:18, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think the former. Of course politicians may commit the same sort of embezzlement that other people do (and so stay in that category, but in their civilian capacity), but looking at the articles so far it mostly seems to be selling favours and contracts, something most people are not in a position to do. There is also the problem that, as far as I can see, the crime of embezzlement does not exist everywhere. Even in the USA these articles seem to embrace a variety of names for crimes, but many are about misuse of official funds. I think that could fit within the term corruption. Rathfelder (talk) 19:42, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If not kept, disperse rather than merge. Most articles should then go into one of the subcategories of Category:Politicians convicted of corruption. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:52, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That was indeed my plan. There are no other subcategories of Category:People convicted of embezzlement, and surprisingly few articles. Rathfelder (talk) 22:03, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - the nom appears to be arguing that Category:Politicians convicted of embezzlement should be a subcat of Category:Politicians convicted of corruption. This is not a reason to merge. Oculi (talk) 23:19, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I dont think there is a useful distinction, as far as politicians are concerned, between corruption and embezzlement. The same terms are used in the articles interchangeably. I have made embezzlement a subcategory of fraud, because the term is not universal. Rathfelder (talk) 08:24, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is corruption which does not involve embezzlement, obviously. Taking a bribe for instance is not embezzlement. Rigging elections is not embezzlement. Tadahiro Ando did not embezzle; neither did Graham Burkett, Dil Bahadur Lama, Vladimir Kuznetsov (diplomat). (Why can't you learn to indent properly?) Oculi (talk) 11:19, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There arent so many articles that it makes sense to distinguish different sorts of corruption, especially as those who go in for one kind often go in for others. Rathfelder (talk) 20:52, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Corruption is too vague in this case. Dimadick (talk) 21:14, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are at least two corrupt practices to which politicians are prone: embezzlement - helping themselves or their families to state funds; accepting bribes. To these may be added bribing others to vote for them, either becasue they want power for its own sake or to enable them to engage in the previous two. The target will make a good parent for the subject and siblings relating to bribery. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:53, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Many of the articles use both terms. Rathfelder (talk) 21:09, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Czech-speaking territorial units in Croatia

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Category:Czech-speaking territorial units in Croatia

Category:Transformers robot characters

The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 17:28, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Transformers robot characters to Category:Transformers characters

Nominator's rationale: There's currently only a single non-robot character article, so no particular point in this being separate. TTN (talk) 16:57, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, if merged, the current parent categories of Category:Transformers robot characters should probably become additional parent categories of Category:Transformers characters. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:24, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Upmerge per nominator. I do not necessarily support the comment by Marcocapelle, e.g. in the case of Category:Marvel Comics robots. Debresser (talk) 16:40, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Debresser: it would be counter-productive if we would remove all robot articles in this category from the tree of Category:Marvel Comics robots, wouldn't it? Marcocapelle (talk) 12:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Upmerge per nominator. No need to keep only a single article in the parent category, especially as the robot characters are the whole point of the franchise. JIP | Talk 13:12, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dungeons & Dragons magical beasts

The result of the discussion was: do not merge. MER-C 17:29, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Dungeons & Dragons magical beasts to Category:Dungeons & Dragons creatures

Nominator's rationale: The main article has been deleted, so this no longer has any real categorizational use. TTN (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose, this sounds like a valid subcategory of Category:Fictional animals by work which I added as a parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:23, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We have a category for humanoids and plants so we can have one for magical beasts as well. Especially since it has 42 pages, only of few of which are redirects. Debresser (talk) 16:42, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Forgotten Realms creatures

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Category:Forgotten Realms creatures

Category:Dungeons & Dragons giants

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Category:Dungeons & Dragons giants

Category:Jewish television series

The result of the discussion was: Rename per option A Timrollpickering (Talk) 23:02, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Jewish television series to Category:Television series about Jews and Judaism
Propose renaming Category:Buddhist television series to Category:Television series about Buddhism
Propose renaming Category:Christian television series to Category:Television series about Christianity
Propose renaming Category:Islamic television series to Category:Television series about Islam

Propose renaming Category:Jewish-related television programs to Category:Television programs about Jews and Judaism (added 25 January)
Propose renaming Category:Television episodes about Judaism to Category:Television episodes about Jews and Judaism (added 25 January)
Propose renaming Category:Islamic television programs to Category:Television programs about Islam (added 25 January)
Propose renaming Category:Catholic television series to Category:Television programs about Catholicism (added 25 January)
Propose renaming Category:Clerical television shows to Category:Television series about Christian religious leaders (added 25 January)

Nominator's rationale: rename, current names are ambiguous: e.g. is it referring to a Jewish producer, a Jewish main actor, a Jewish main character? Option A: rename to Category:Television series about Jews and Judaism, that would have my preference. Option B: split between Category:Television series about Jews and Judaism and subCategory:Television series about Judaism in line with the opposition at CFDS. For Buddhism, Christianity and Islam, only option A applies, obviously Marcocapelle (talk) 16:12, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

copy of discussion at CFDS
Category:Jewish television series to Category:Television series about Jews and Judaism – per C2C NeoBatfreak (talk) 20:42, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Comment This probably shouldn't go ahead speedily as long as 2 similar categories are in the opposed section. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 15:57, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Oppose. As before C2C applies to Category:Religious television series as well. --Gonnym (talk) 23:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Category:Jewish-related television programs to Category:Television programs about Jews and Judaism – C2C within parent Category:Works about Jews and Judaism. See also Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_December_30#Category:Buddhism-related_television_episodes. – Fayenatic London 14:26, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Leaning oppose as proposed: Seems Category:Works about Jews and Judaism is the odd one in Category:Works about religion and it should probably be the one changed and this be Category:Television programs about Judaism. --Gonnym (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Category:Television episodes about Judaism to Category:Television episodes about Jews and Judaism – C2C within grandparent Category:Works about Jews and Judaism. – Fayenatic London 10:38, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Leaning oppose: One of the parents is Category:Television episodes about religion and this category uses that same style such as Category:Television episodes about Christianity‎ and Category:Television episodes about Islam‎. Also, looking at Category:Works about religion, seems "Works about Jews and Judaism" is the odd one here and should be the one renamed. --Gonnym (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Until the CFD last month, the category was "Category:Jewish-related television episodes", so it may include content about Jewish ethnic identity that is not exclusively about Judaism as a religion. Nevertheless such content should not be removed, because this is part of a well-established hierarchy Category:Jews and Judaism. – Fayenatic London 11:54, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Wouldn't it be better then to split the pages that deal with the Jewish ethnic identity such as The Entity (South Park) from those that deal with the religion such as A Rugrats Passover? I was trying to find other ethnic groups that have a similar TV categories but couldn't find one, but Category:Works about race and ethnicity would be a logical parent to categories such as Category:Television episodes about Native Americans (similar to Category:Films about Native Americans) or Category:Television episodes about Romani people (similar to Category:Films about Romani people). In this case it would be Category:Television episodes about Judaism and Category:Television episodes about Jews. --Gonnym (talk) 12:13, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] That split sounds as if it might be feasible in this case, but could be much harder to work through the rest of the hierarchy, and we might as well treat TV categories consistently with the rest. I'd want to hear from WP:WikiProject Judaism first, so I have posted a notice there. – Fayenatic London 21:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] I support the rename, and would leave a split between Jews and Judaism for the future. Same for the other category above. Debresser (talk) 01:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Concurring with Debresser. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:56, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] @Gonnym: would you be prepared to withdraw your opposition to these two? – Fayenatic London 15:43, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] I'd like to understand what the argument "and would leave a split between Jews and Judaism for the future" means. If they both support a split, then why don't we do it now? It's not like the category has hundreds of entries. We're talking about 16 pages. --Gonnym (talk) 16:17, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] I didn't read it as support for the split, just openness to a further discussion which could cover the relevant hierarchy in one go. That would clearly be beyond the scope of this Speedy page. – Fayenatic London 08:19, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] Then I'm sorry, I don't see how changing this category to be consistent with one parent, but inconsistent with another, makes it any better than the current style. Lumping two similar but different topics (religion and ethnicity) in the same category makes less sense than fixing the categories. --Gonnym (talk) 08:24, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply] @Fayenatic london That is indeed what I had in mind, but since Gonnym opposes this speedy proposal and the discussion is going to have to take place sooner or later, I propose to make this a full Cfd discussion at this stage. Debresser (talk) 11:41, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

copy of discussion at CFDS

Category:Jewish television series to Category:Television series about Jews and Judaism – per C2C NeoBatfreak (talk) 20:42, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This probably shouldn't go ahead speedily as long as 2 similar categories are in the opposed section. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 15:57, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. As before C2C applies to Category:Religious television series as well. --Gonnym (talk) 23:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish-related television programs to Category:Television programs about Jews and Judaism – C2C within parent Category:Works about Jews and Judaism. See also Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_December_30#Category:Buddhism-related_television_episodes. – Fayenatic London 14:26, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning oppose as proposed: Seems Category:Works about Jews and Judaism is the odd one in Category:Works about religion and it should probably be the one changed and this be Category:Television programs about Judaism. --Gonnym (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Television episodes about Judaism to Category:Television episodes about Jews and Judaism – C2C within grandparent Category:Works about Jews and Judaism. – Fayenatic London 10:38, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning oppose: One of the parents is Category:Television episodes about religion and this category uses that same style such as Category:Television episodes about Christianity‎ and Category:Television episodes about Islam‎. Also, looking at Category:Works about religion, seems "Works about Jews and Judaism" is the odd one here and should be the one renamed. --Gonnym (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Until the CFD last month, the category was "Category:Jewish-related television episodes", so it may include content about Jewish ethnic identity that is not exclusively about Judaism as a religion. Nevertheless such content should not be removed, because this is part of a well-established hierarchy Category:Jews and Judaism. – Fayenatic London 11:54, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't it be better then to split the pages that deal with the Jewish ethnic identity such as The Entity (South Park) from those that deal with the religion such as A Rugrats Passover? I was trying to find other ethnic groups that have a similar TV categories but couldn't find one, but Category:Works about race and ethnicity would be a logical parent to categories such as Category:Television episodes about Native Americans (similar to Category:Films about Native Americans) or Category:Television episodes about Romani people (similar to Category:Films about Romani people). In this case it would be Category:Television episodes about Judaism and Category:Television episodes about Jews. --Gonnym (talk) 12:13, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That split sounds as if it might be feasible in this case, but could be much harder to work through the rest of the hierarchy, and we might as well treat TV categories consistently with the rest. I'd want to hear from WP:WikiProject Judaism first, so I have posted a notice there. – Fayenatic London 21:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I support the rename, and would leave a split between Jews and Judaism for the future. Same for the other category above. Debresser (talk) 01:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Concurring with Debresser. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:56, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Gonnym: would you be prepared to withdraw your opposition to these two? – Fayenatic London 15:43, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to understand what the argument "and would leave a split between Jews and Judaism for the future" means. If they both support a split, then why don't we do it now? It's not like the category has hundreds of entries. We're talking about 16 pages. --Gonnym (talk) 16:17, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't read it as support for the split, just openness to a further discussion which could cover the relevant hierarchy in one go. That would clearly be beyond the scope of this Speedy page. – Fayenatic London 08:19, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then I'm sorry, I don't see how changing this category to be consistent with one parent, but inconsistent with another, makes it any better than the current style. Lumping two similar but different topics (religion and ethnicity) in the same category makes less sense than fixing the categories. --Gonnym (talk) 08:24, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Fayenatic london That is indeed what I had in mind, but since Gonnym opposes this speedy proposal and the discussion is going to have to take place sooner or later, I propose to make this a full Cfd discussion at this stage. Debresser (talk) 11:41, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ both options as none of the options given even take into account Category:Religious television series which is the other parent category. Category:Television series about Judaism does not match Category:Christian television series‎ or Category:Islamic television series‎. My preference is a split between religion and ethnic group categories as long as we have a category named Category:Religious television series. --Gonnym (talk) 16:26, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: I have co-nominated the sibling categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:37, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose option A, support option B (I think, I'll elaborate to make it clear). Support a split of the Jewish category between Jew (ethnicity) and Jewish (religion). The categories don't have that many entries and sorting through them should be fairly easy. This is also pretty important as most Israel-made TV series would go in the the option A category, but not all of them have any relevance to the religion aspect. This would make the category pointless for finding something (which is part of it's raison d'etre). As I pointed in one of the related discussions, the ethnicity category could (and should) work for other groups, such as Native-American, Romani and others. --Gonnym (talk) 15:21, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rename, i.e. Option A, along with five more related categories that I have added today. Most participants at the Speedy page felt that these should be renamed for now, with scope for a separate later discussion on splitting the Works about Jews and Judaism hierarchy between content about Jewish ethnic identity / content about Judaism as a religion. – Fayenatic London 14:07, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps at least Category:Christian television series and Category:Islamic television series should be split rather than renamed, as some of the content is not just about the religion but promulgating it. In particular, Christian children's television series and Christian entertainment television series seem to be of this character and I have therefore not nominated them for renaming. Religious television series would then also be re-split to (the existing) Television series about religion. – Fayenatic London 14:46, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

About almost every topic on TV there will be supportive, opposing and neutral views. I am not certain to what extent we should split that. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:25, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support option A. Shouldn't it be "Jews or Judaism"? Debresser (talk) 18:19, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The whole category tree consists of Jews and Judaism categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:51, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So be it. Thanks for the reply. Debresser (talk) 16:46, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Option A and Option B, with a slight preference for option B. Although there is a well-established tree for Jews and Judaism, religion-related topics are usually at Judaism. Place Clichy (talk) 21:50, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Awards of the Holy See

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Awards of the Holy See

Category:Dungeons & Dragons aberrations

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 9#Category:Dungeons & Dragons aberrations

Category:Communist parties in Palestine (pre-1948)

The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 17:21, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Communist parties in Palestine (pre-1948) to Category:Communist parties in Mandatory Palestine

Nominator's rationale: The category is specifically dealing with Mandatory Palestine period (so it says); in line with main article Mandatory Palestine and other similar categories such as parent category:political parties in Mandatory Palestine. GreyShark (dibra) 13:19, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:19, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:18, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nominator. Seems obvious. Debresser (talk) 20:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sipport -- Standard name for the polity. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:38, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dungeons & Dragons plants

The result of the discussion was: delete. For info, there is still a list at List_of_fictional_plants#In_Dungeons_&_Dragons, and I have put a redirect to that within Category:Dungeons & Dragons creatures. – Fayenatic London 16:20, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Dungeons & Dragons plants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Only three articles, all three most likely to be removed at AfD before this ends. If for any reason any remain, then upmerge to both categories. TTN (talk) 12:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dual merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:27, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as a valid category. As I stated above, I see no problem with these Dungeons & Dragons categories. If empty, then speedy as usual. These categories should have been gourped and the nominations should have awaited the result of the Afd's to make discussion more meaningful. Debresser (talk) 16:52, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, meanwhile the three articles no longer exist. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:24, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, only elements are redirects. b uidhe 21:37, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Only redirects in this category now._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 11:43, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Single-country languages

The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 17:31, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Czech-speaking countries and territories‎
Propose deleting Category:Finnish-speaking countries and territories‎
Propose deleting Category:Hebrew-speaking countries and territories‎
Propose deleting Category:Ingush-speaking countries and territories‎
Propose deleting Category:Khmer-speaking countries and territories‎
Propose deleting Category:Nepali-speaking countries and territories‎

Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, only one country in each of these categories. The so-called 'Smallcat exception' does not really apply here, because we'll never going to have a tree for all languages anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:30, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Cannot see the point of these categories. I'd also argue that language is not necessarily a defining aspect of a country. b uidhe 16:05, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator. Debresser (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- This structure is useful where its language is spoken in areas beyond a country's frontiers, but not in these cases. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:46, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Japanese female comics artists

The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic London 17:37, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Japanese female comics artists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This is redundant with Category:Women manga artists. Recently created/renamed. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Opposed: The problem with Category:Women manga artists is that it doesn't specify the nationality of these artists. Nowadays not all mangaka are Japanese and there is some overlapping with manhwa at times, making it more important to specify the country of birth. The category Category: Women manga artists also sticks out among all categories (Nationality) female comics artists.User:Kjell Knudde, 6:57, 18 January 2020 (UTC).
Comment, if there is at least a handful of articles about non-Japanese managaka we can reorganize it such that Category:Women manga artists consists of the subcategory Category:Japanese female comics artists (possibly to be renamed to Japanese women manga artists) plus the handful of articles about non-Japanese managaka. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:45, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the handful of articles that make this different from Women manga artists. Also, Category:Japanese comics artists redirects to Category:Manga artists AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:07, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging Nihonjoe who redirected the Japanese comics artists one in 2012. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:12, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(reply after relisting) In absence of a handful of non-Japanese women manga artists, I support the nomination. However I would suggest a follow-up nomination to rename Category:Women manga artists to Category:Japanese women manga artists and if applicable move any remaining non-Japanese woman manga artist to Category:Manga artists, in order to keep the content of that category within the Japanese women tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:03, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcocapelle: Jo Chen is a manga artist and isn't Japanese. lullabying (talk) 03:04, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 08:18, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Queries- are all manga artists Japanese? Are there any Japanese comics artists who are not manga artists? Certainly Category:Female comics artists, Category:Comics artists by nationality, Category:Female comics writers, Category:Comics writers by nationality should each have a Japanese subcat. Oculi (talk) 14:35, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Oculi: No, not all manga artists are Japanese. Jo Chen is an example; she's published manga with Libre Publishing as Guilt Pleasure. lullabying (talk) 23:04, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]