< November 9	November 11 >

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The result of the discussion was: merge with Category:American academic administrators. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:African-American university administrators to Category:African-American academic administrators

Nominator's rationale: The parent category is Category:American academic administrators. The current title is problematic because not all colleges and universities use the university label (many categories, e.g. [1], use the "universities and colleges" construction), so pages in this category like G. Gabrielle Starr do not fit. ((u|Sdkb)) ^talk 20:39, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Category:American academic administrators, their race does not make them administer differently. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:55, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per WP:OCEGRS as a non-notable intersection with ethnicity. If merged, also manually merge to Category:African-American academics insofar the articles are not already in its subcategories. If not merged, support rename. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Category:American academic administrators as trivial intersection by ethnicity. Note a similar discussion here. Until proven otherwise, African Americans do not form a subculture of academic administrators since the end of segregation. Place Clichy (talk) 03:12, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Deaths in Connecticut to Category:Death in Connecticut

Nominator's rationale: There is significant overlap between the two categories in terms of content the two wish to capture. 'Category:Death in Connecticut' is more populated with subcategories, and the use of naming convention 'Category:Death' rather than 'Category:Deaths' is more consistent with other state-level categories in the larger container category 'Category:Death in the United States by state'. Joeyvandernaald (talk) 15:05, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Category:Death in Connecticut is a topic category; Category:Deaths in Connecticut is a 'people' (set) subcategory ('People who died in'). (Category:Deaths in the United States by state is inexplicably underpopulated.) Oculi (talk) 15:35, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. The cats have different purposes. Grutness...wha? 02:59, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. Different rationale. -- Just N. (talk) 17:23, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:54, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:The Christian Science Monitor people to Category:Christian Science Monitor people

Nominator's rationale: While the paper’s name includes the definite article, this construction of it does not, at least to fluent English speakers. Qwirkle (talk) 09:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as is per the main article and other subcategories in Category:American journalists for national newspapers. There's nothing ungrammatical to me as a native anglo about this name. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:56, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This ngram rather strongly suggest otherwise. The constructions using the definite article all seem to refer it to the reporter, not the paper. Qwirkle (talk) 16:25, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as is "The" is part of the title. Dimadick (talk) 16:58, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - see Category:American journalists for national newspapers. Oculi (talk) 17:23, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

i.e., other stuff exists. Instead, fix them also. Qwirkle (talk) 17:29, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See also Category:Journalists by publication in the United Kingdom. Nothing needs fixing. And quite a lot of other stuff exists. Oculi (talk) 17:35, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

...on Wikipedia”, yes. Can you show frequent usage of such constructions in the real world, by competent writers? Qwirkle (talk) 15:26, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as is "The" is part of the title. -- Just N. (talk) 17:38, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And yet that construction shows up at a ratio of 36 to 550 on Google, by the look of it, when looking at “a The New York Times reporter” vs. “a New York Times reporter”. Didn’t see any usages by the Times or its employees...mostly Twitter and “People” (and blogshite, O My!) Odd, that. Qwirkle (talk) 15:22, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Russian people of German descent. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:56, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Russian-German people to Category:German-Russian people

Nominator's rationale: Procedural nomination on behalf of EuantheEditor (talk) who posted on the talk page: Russian-Germans are Germans of Russian descent and German-Russians are Russians of German descent. – Fayenatic London 08:20, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question, how should we determine if a biography belongs in this category or in parent Category:Russian people of German descent? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unnecessary, and also ambiguous, "descent" category. It's asserted that Russian-German people are different to German-Russian people. Maybe Russian-German relations are different than German-Russian relations, too? All these descent, pseudoethnicity categories might have been all the rage in 1930s but really, it's 2020 now. It's all fanciful unless one traces purely the female line as we're told that many German women were raped by Russians during and after WWII, so their children are presumably "Russian-German" or "German-Russian" or both. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:00, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is an exception. There has for a long time been a German-speaking minority in Russia. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support, like Marcocapelle also said, it's indeed a historical exception. And to rename this cat really makes a difference! -- Just N. (talk) 17:33, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Category:Russian people of German descent unless someone is able to provide an unambiguous distinction backed up by reliable sources, between the nominated category and its parent. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:14, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Merge to Category:Russian people of German descent. The correctly-named category for the German community in Russia is Category:Volga German people, and the other ethnic group which is currently in this category (Category:Bukovina-German people) is not located in Russia: Bukovina is split between Ukraine and Romania. Place Clichy (talk) 03:12, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional victims of brainwashing and indoctrination (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining for the vast majority of characters. ★Trekker (talk) 03:55, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete purely subjective (for how long? how-so? one person's indoctrination is another's education...) and non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:02, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional bullying victims (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:54, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete for the same reasons as the category above. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:03, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional stalking victims (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:53, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete similarly both subjective and non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:03, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional domestic abuse victims (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:52, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete subjective and non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:03, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Fictional murdered people. – Fayenatic London 22:05, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional assassinated people (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:50, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Being assassinated seems pretty defining to me, since it's how the character ends. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:59, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with the murdered people category above. The distinction doesn't make sense for characters. Our article assassination defines "assassination" as "the act of deliberately killing a prominent person". So what is a prominent fictional person (a character)? How does one determine it? It is purely a matter of the author's whim. Maybe more people know about Bart Simpson than Prince Valliant so which, if either, would be prominent? The better known character (fictional person) or the character whose author has imbued him with a title and presumably some "prominence". Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:26, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Category:Fictional murdered people, per Carlossuarez46. I'm convinced that the distinction does not make much sense for fictional characters. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:10, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Category:Fictional murdered people, per Carlossuarez46. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:14, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Carlos. It's a case of "to-may-to to-mah-to". Does a fictional murder victim count as having been assassinated just by having been murdered? Does the murder necessarily have to do with the character's prominence? Does it have to happen a certain way (e.g. shot while giving a press conference)? Assassination is a very small subcategory of murder, and the distinction isn't terribly useful once you realize just how subtle it is. It might be useful in real life when the consensus of experts and observers agrees that it applies, but in fiction, as said before, anything goes because it is purely by the whim of the author. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 15:00, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 13:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional victims of child abuse (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:49, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If kept, limit its scope, rename to e.g. Category:Victim characters in fiction about child abuse and purge, in order to improve the definingness. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete subjective and non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:07, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article on child abuse states that it is abuse directed at children especially by a parent or caregiver, but that implies it does not necessarily have to come from such a source. The sad truth is, nearly all kids experience child abuse of some kind from one source or another, and at that point the question becomes where do we draw the line? How much abuse has to happen and who has to give it to the character in order for it to be defining? Is it just an authority figure the character only rarely encounters, or does it have to be in the home? If we have to ask many more questions than we can answer, we can't have a category for a given theme. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 15:06, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional sexual assault victims (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete subjective and non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 13:57, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional child sexual abuse victims (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. ★Trekker (talk) 03:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If kept, limit its scope, rename to e.g. Category:Victim characters in fiction about child sexual abuse and purge, in order to improve the definingness. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:19, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete subjective and non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for the same reasons I outlined above regarding general child abuse and kidnapping fictional characters categories. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 15:09, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 12:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System drama navigational boxes to Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System Television drama navigational boxes

Nominator's rationale: Consistency with proposed renaming of main article Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Procedure @Mvcg66b3r: Tokyo Broadcasting System doesn't show a WP:RM on the talk page. (And, if it is renamed, tthe way to rename a category based on a main article change would be through the speedy process per WP:C2D.) I would suggest withdrawing these nominations and submitting the WP:RM as the first step. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RevelationDirect, I made a WP:RM on TBS Television. Tokyo Broadcasting System is just the holding company. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:36, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that clarification. I would still recommend the speedy WP:C2D route but, if this nomination is still open if/when the article is renamed, Defer to the RM outcome. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:39, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I went through WP:RM rather than speedy because I thought the move would be potentially controversial. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:43, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of name change outcome, support either TBS Television or Tokyo Broadcast System Television nomenclature because that is the actual production company directly involved with making these works. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 15:14, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Update The related WP:RM remains open at Talk:TBS Television. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:13, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Per WP:C2D since the article was renamed in a formal WP:RM to Tokyo Broadcasting System Television. (Note that this is my second iVote but I think the earlier discussion is largely moot.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:00, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 12:30, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System television dramas to Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System Television dramas

Nominator's rationale: Consistency with proposed renaming of main article Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Procedure @Mvcg66b3r: Tokyo Broadcasting System doesn't show a WP:RM on the talk page. (And, if it is renamed, tthe way to rename a category based on a main article change would be through the speedy process per WP:C2D.) I would suggest withdrawing these nominations and submitting the WP:RM as the first step. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RevelationDirect, I made a WP:RM on TBS Television. Tokyo Broadcasting System is just the holding company. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Combine With outcome above. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:40, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See reply above. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:44, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support rename as described in above nomination. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 15:15, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Per WP:C2D since the article was renamed in a formal WP:RM to Tokyo Broadcasting System Television. (Note that this is my second iVote but I think the earlier discussion is largely moot.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename per RM at Talk:Tokyo Broadcasting System Television. – Fayenatic London 12:23, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System original programming to Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System Television original programming

Nominator's rationale: Consistent with proposed renaming of main article Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:31, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Procedure @Mvcg66b3r: Tokyo Broadcasting System doesn't show a WP:RM on the talk page. (And, if it is renamed, tthe way to rename a category based on a main article change would be through the speedy process per WP:C2D.) I would suggest withdrawing these nominations and submitting the WP:RM as the first step. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RevelationDirect, I made a WP:RM on TBS Television. Tokyo Broadcasting System is just the holding company. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Combine with outcome above. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:40, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See reply above. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:44, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support rename as described two nominations above. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 15:15, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Per WP:C2D since the article was renamed in a formal WP:RM to Tokyo Broadcasting System Television. (Note that this is my second iVote but I think the earlier discussion is largely moot.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:02, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Order of Klement Gottwald

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:PERFCAT and WP:OCAWARD (WP:NONDEFINING)

When foreign leaders visit communist Czechoslovakia, or vice versa, the Order of Klement Gottwald is given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit. Leonid Brezhnev, Fidel Castro, Kim Il-sung and Phạm Văn Đồng are not remotely defined by this award. (There are also a few high ranking members of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic included but, of those, 2 mention the award in passing—1, 2—and six not at all—3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8—so it's not defining for them either.) The recipients are already listified here in the main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:28, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background In the past, we've deleted similar categories for visiting officials here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:28, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:40, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, clear case of WP:OCAWARD. -- Just N. (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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November 10

Category:African-American university administrators

Category:Deaths in Connecticut

Category:The Christian Science Monitor people

Category:Russian-German people

Category:Fictional victims of brainwashing and indoctrination

Category:Fictional bullying victims

Category:Fictional stalking victims

Category:Fictional domestic abuse victims

Category:Fictional murdered people

Category:Fictional assassinated people

Category:Fictional victims of child abuse

Category:Fictional victims of kidnapping

Category:Fictional people sentenced to death

Category:Fictional sexual assault victims

Category:Fictional child sexual abuse victims

Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System drama navigational boxes

Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System television dramas

Category:Tokyo Broadcasting System original programming

Category:Recipients of the Order of Klement Gottwald

1 and 2 article Municipal Award subcategories