The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 00:03, 24 September 2010 [1].

Don Valley Parkway[edit]

Don Valley Parkway (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 17:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it had most of the minor kinks ironed out by the time the last nomination ran its course. A lack of reviewers led to no promotion. I'm hoping for a better turn-out this time around.

I believe this article presents a better embodiment of information than any other single source available on this highway. It meets all the FA criteria and is an interesting read even to those who don't really care about roads at all. To residents of Toronto, it provides an in-depth examination of an otherwise overlooked part of the city's infrastructure.

Cheers, ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 17:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Replies
  • I'm working on final touches on the map such as this. It should be up within a few days.
  • WP:HWY encourages the use of only the Route description, History and Future sections. I felt that the traffic congestion is neither past nor future, and belonged in a description of the route.
  • Haha, indeed... Though in this case the vagueness could be interpreted literally in many cases. Changing to "section immediately south"
  • The source at the end of that information is a traffic study by Toronto. The findings of that study would be the whom in this case.
  • Agreed, I'll fix this. Actually, on second inspection... The whole reminder of the paragraph discusses first the valley before the parkway, then that "The construction of the six-lane highway modified the valley through the removal of hills, other earth works and the rerouting of the Don River."
  • No sources have ever mentioned it as far as I've read. Details beyond the dates each section opened are pretty scarce. I could contact the consultation company and see if they have the name, but there would be no source for it.
I'll make the changes shortly. Running out for dinner now :) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 00:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
About the 'changed the valley'. It's not a great sentence, agreed. That and other content was a response to a comment about the modification of the valley not being covered enough in the previous FAC review and is stuff I worked on. I'm sure I can improve that and I'll do that. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 16:30, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It may be possible to determine the road-builders from newspaper archives. I'll investigate that. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 16:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks serviceable in terms of prose.

  • Alrighty, made most of the fixes. For the third point, are you suggesting I change the sentence to read "The first section opened 1961 and the entire route was completed by the end of 1966." or are you referring to the infobox? As for your "then" point, I can't find any other instances, but the one you pointed out does use it sequentially. Highway passes beneath Eastern Avenue, then veers left as it passes beneath Queen Street. In this case, Queen is just after Eastern, and the highway veers beneath Queen. As for the last point, would "136 accidents had caused four deaths and 86 injuries during the first five months of 1965." work, or did I just smack grammar in the face? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 14:30, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In: Sorry, was referring to the infobox; "in" is used for one and not the other line. Still plenty of "then"s hanging around. Leave in only if you need to "mark" sequence. Sequence is the default. Sometimes, "and" is preferable; often, just remove "then". Every sentence is a "then" already. 136 ... yes, that works.
  • "diverges into two branches: two lanes continuing north as the 404, the other three serving Highway 401"—"splits ... , and the three others as Highway 401".
  • Utilizes is so ugly. Why not uses?
  • Is it just the closures that manage traffic flows, or the previous items in that list, too? Try to remove "in order", too.
  • Grammar inconsistent in these listed items: "non-urgent messages to motorists, such as future construction, safety messages and smog alerts"—construction is not a message.
  • "was chosen as a way to avoid expropriation of existing development"—kill three words.
  • Do watch non-parallel grammar, in lists: "other than adding one partial interchange at Wynford Drive and the updating of its infrastructure to current standards". the addition of ... the updating of; that works. Or "adding ... updating ... Not both, though.
  • Image in the Construction section: can you brighten it a bit? Tony (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tony (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Alrighty, I hope I passed your grammar lesson. Probably not, but I try and I learn. Fixes made :) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 20:53, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • No referencing at all for the first para of the History section.
  • These two phrases under "Since completion" make no sense, and i can't work out a fix: "...a report criticizing the lack of safety in the completed section's design of the as yet unfinished expressway"; "...light standards exposed to traffic."
Other queries:
  • Why no reference for this: "This area, known as Milne Hollow, is partially forested, some of the land being conservation reserves." (particularly the fact that the land is conservation reserves) (also, why plural reserves?) hamiltonstone (talk) 00:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments in response:

  • OK. IIRC, I've not seen this before (summary intro paras in individual sections). Taking that on board, i looked at it again and i can see you are right. Leave it be, I think. Now that I've looked at your fix, I have only just understood that "light standards" is a compound noun referring to poles with lights on them! I've never heard that expression before, and I assumed it was about the quality of lighting! I've provided a wikilink for foreigners like me! hamiltonstone (talk) 01:03, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    To be honest I've never heard of the term either... Might be better to switch over to the more universal street light. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 03:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Tricky bit of wording. It's the poles that were the safety issue. You want to be specific on the poles being the issue. Not lighting in general. The word 'standard' seems to be the technical term, in the cited article and I used it. Light poles isn't exactly right either. Street light poles? Unthinkable today, but the poles were less than a foot from the roadway. And they were supposedly designed to withstand high winds and were made of concrete. No thought to collisions. In those days, they did not put in guardrails between the directions either, or guardrails around bridges. Just no thought to the safety, it was an industry that was not yet mature. At the expense of drivers. They were really proud to be able to build the highway for only $3 million per mile but it took Shulman to wake them up to the lack of common sense in the safety design. He also took the province of Ontario to task for the safety of the provincial expressways. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It would help to mention the length of the road in the lead.
  2. The first paragraph of the South of the Forks section of the route description needs citations.
  3. Try to avoid colloquial terms such as "the Gardiner", "the 404", and "the DVP".
  4. Citation needed for "North of Bloor Street, the wide valley floor became dominated by industrial concerns of the Taylor family, including the Don Valley Brick Works. The area from the Forks of the Don and north along the river valleys had been lumbered and farmed, such as at Milne Hollow, but several natural areas remained by the 1950s."
  5. "1 1/4 mile" should be properly converted to kilometers, with kilometers being listed first.
  6. "$2.723 million" needs an inflation conversion.
  7. The sentence "The ramps between the parkway and the Gardiner are directly over the Don River channel." needs a citation. Dough4872 03:40, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Replies

  1. Done, though this is oddly one of the figures that only Google Maps or a ruler, string, map and calculator can verify
  2. I'll wait and see if Alaney has anything for this paragraph. If not it may have to be sourced to a map.
  3. Done
  4. Again, I'll leave this to Alaney. I imagine its from one of the books he used for all the preconstruction stuff.
  5. Done, as well as for several other cases
  6. This one I disagree with. The final construction figure has been adjusted for inflation, but to do so for the other two or three construction figures would become somewhat redundant.
  7. I'll see if one of the revitilization projects mentions this, but otherwise it too will be a map citation. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 15:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
2. is definitely a map source. It's about the connection with the Gardiner. Not sure what is debatable about this. There is a photo directly above the paragraph that illustrates this. It could go below the paragraph.
4. I'll source and cite that today.
7. Again, the photo illustrates this.
I'm no expert on Wikipedia policy, but a photo illustrating something seems good enough, no? ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 16:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Once the missing citations are added, I will support the article. Dough4872 20:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Generally photos will pass for verification, but not for the featured article process. They are both easily sourceable to Toronto & Area. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 23:22, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. I've added the citations for the route description and the conditions before construction paragraphs. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 23:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The article looks good now. Dough4872 23:38, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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