Kept status

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Enclave

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Article is still a featured article.

This article is mostly a bunch of lists. I don't consider this anywhere near our best work. Kingturtle 03:54, 23 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Peerage

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Article is still a featured article.

Most of the content which was used to justify featuring this article has since been moved to other articles to create a series (not surprisingly, those articles are pretty good and are starting to get nominated for FA status). No summaries were left, resulting in a comparatively poor article that has no history and little other information. Given the subject matter, this article is a virtual stub. However, if a pre-split version were condensed to fit within the 30KB limit, then there is no reason to de-feature. --mav 06:34, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Frankfurt School

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Article is still a featured article.

A quotation:

Consequently, at a time when it appears that reality itself has become ideology, the greatest contribution that critical theory can make is to explore the dialectical contradictions of individual subjective experience on the one hand, and to preserve the truth of theory on the other. Even the dialectic can become a means to domination: "Its truth or untruth, therefore, is not inherent in the method itself, but in its intention in the historical process." And this intention must be toward integral freedom and happiness: "the only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption". How far from orthodox Marxism is Adorno's conclusion: "But beside the demand thus placed on thought, the question of the reality or unreality of redemption itself hardly matters."

I realize that this is mostly quoting Theodor Adorno's word salad. But Adorno can't be blamed for passages like:

By locating the conditions of rationality in the social structure of language use, Habermas moves the locus of rationality from the autonomous subject to subjects in interaction. Rationality is a property not of individuals per se, but rather of structures of undistorted communication. In this notion Habermas has overcome the ambiguous plight of the subject in critical theory. If capitalistic technological society weakens the autonomy and rationality of the subject, it is not through the domination of the individual by the apparatus but through technological rationality supplanting a describable rationality of communication.

I realize that part of the problem is the confused and confusing thoughts of the school of thought itself. Maybe the article can't help but be vague, abstract to the point of evanescence, and confusing --- if it hopes to convey an accurate impression of these vague, evanescent, confused thinkers. Still, as David Hume said:

Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.

The article contains a number of passages like that, whose meaning, if any, seems pretty impenetrable. It also seems to have some POV issues. It's introduction to the history and the people involved are pretty good, I agree. But I would question whether passages like this actually leave a reader unacquainted with the Frankfurt School that much more knowledgable about the substance of their thought, or its historical and cultural consequences, than before he had read it. (The jargon might help that reader fake it and drop the right names, which is perhaps the main thing a student of the FS needs to learn.) Teaching these guys to speak English is a chore, I realize; but I think a better attempt should be made before this article qualifies as a featued article. -- Smerdis of Tlön 14:09, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

This echoes my complaints about the article on Jurgen Habermas. Unfortunately, my extensive critical reading at Talk: Jurgen Habermas does not seem to have attracted any response, let alone improvements on explaining the ideas of this philosopher. BTW, a very apropos quote from David Hume, Smerdis! -- llywrch 20:55, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Quantum mechanics

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Article is no longer a featured article.

The article has a very short lead, completely inadequate for a FA its size (3a). I've raised the issue at the talk page but it has not been addressed. It should be removed untill it attains FA quality again. Loom91 07:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's also factualy inaccurate, speculative and contradictory. I give the following passages as examples:-

"This probability cloud obeys a quantum mechanical principle called Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, which states that there is an uncertainty in the classical position of any subatomic particle, including the electron; so instead of describing where an electron or other particle is, the entire range of possible values is used, describing a probability distribution. So in normal atoms with electrons in stationary states, the probability of the electron being within the nucleus (or somewhere else in atom within similarly small volume) is nearly zero according to the Uncertainty Principle (it is nearly zero as the nucleus has a volume and is not a point). Therefore, quantum mechanics, translated to Newton's equally deterministic description, leads to a probabilistic description of nature."

It's not only subatomic particles that obey uncertainty principle, this is a false claim. It is also a false claim that the probability cloud obeys the uncertainty principle. The probability cloud obeys the Shroedinger equation. Uncertainty principle only predicts the existence of such a probability cloud.

Comment - I am a PhD student in a subject closely related to quantum mechanics. It is not wrong to say that the probability cloud obeys the uncertainty principle (UP). Indeed the UP is a constraint on the spread of the probability distribution *in phase space*, be it defined as the Wigner function or any other sensible way. However I agree with your other criticisms. I reworked this paragraph. -Cedric

The sentence "Therefore, quantum mechanics, translated to Newton's equally deterministic description, leads to a probabilistic description of nature." is devoid of any remote semblance of meaning.

"In some cases, both general relativity and quantum mechanics converge. As an example, general relativity is unable to explain what will happen if a subatomic particle hits the singularity of a black hole which is a phenomenon predicted by general relativity and involves gravity in the macro world. Only quantum mechanics can provide the answer: the particle's position will have an uncertainty that follows the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, such that it might not really reach the singularity and thus escape the possible collapse to infinite density."

This passageis contradictory, inaccurate, unreferenced speculation. Such shortcomings are far too numerous for me to list all of them. Suffice to say the article needs a major copyediting by experts to meet the ever-increasing FA standards. Loom91 07:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I'm no physicist - in fact, I haven't taken a science class in almost five years - so I can't speak to your allegations about the accuracy of this article. However, we luckily have an expert on hand (you) who seems to know a fair bit about the subject of quantum mechanics. Seeing as you've already spotted a few seemingly big problems, why not be bold and fix them? Since this isn't technically a valid objection (as it wasn't listed on the talk page prior to nomination), that might be a good idea. To speak to your only valid objection, the too-short lead (which you mentioned on the talk page on May 9), yes, it is true that WP:WIAFA requires a lead of 2-3 paragraphs. However, for me, this violation is too minor to merit demotion, as it is easily fixed by somebody who has thoroughly read the article and has a good understanding of the topic. (Again, for lack of any other knowledgable and interested volunteers that I know of, I'll nominate you.) Cheers! The Disco King 17:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Unfortunately my knowledge of the subject is not comprehensive enough to actually correct all those errors, while I can recognise them as errors. ((sofixit)) is always the best solution to any problem, but not always feasible (in this case because I don't have enough time). Loom91 07:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


1. I'm happy with the lead. Criterion 3a requires just "a concise lead section that summarizes the entire topic and prepares the reader for the higher level of detail in the subsequent section". I note, too, that some reviewers in the FAC room have been getting themselves into a knot about the number of paragraphs that a lead should comprise. IMV, that is too strict: there are a number of ways of writing a satisfactory lead, and some of them may not require precise numbers of paragraphs. That is why 3a deliberately avoids the issue.

2. Since the complaint, as aired on the talk page, is not, IMV, actionable, a question hangs over whether this is a valid nomination. It would be proper to withdraw the nomination and go through the process again, citing better reasons. Give the contributors a chance to fix it before the nomination.

3. I agree with Disco that it would be an excellent outcome if Loom91 corrected what s/he has identified as factual errors. This is the very thing that WP's science articles need. But reviewers and nominators are, of course, under no obligation to do so.

4. There are a few problems in the article: the caption for Figure 1 is ... whoaaa ... far too long, and I hate the italics. Figure 2 is just a question mark: why bother? The prose is OK, but could do with a run through to fix awkward little things such as "which we today call Quantum Mechanics".

It would be sad to defrock this one. If the nominator agrees to fix the factual errors, I'll agree to copy-edit it. Tony 02:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Glass

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Article is still a featured article.

Needs better structure, standard TOC placement; recent discussions in some newsgroups are not a proper source to answer scientific questions. Also: pictures! How can we have an article about glass without pictures? —Eloquence 05:42, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)

Pictures there are; at least, I've added one and there's one already. I have some stained glass pictures, as well as those at glassblowing and smoking pipe.
The TOC is only three paragraphs from the top, now, and one of those paragraphs serves to explain a more general concept than will be discussed in the rest of the article. --Andrew 23:51, 3 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Resolve

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Glass

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Article is no longer a featured article.

When I nominated this article an old conversation came up on the template. I'm not sure why.

That'd be the old Farc. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is very messy. It is not visualy appealing, has a bad paragrpah layout, and only has three refrcnes. On top of that, It was never voted a FA Look at the nomination page, and you will see that it never won the vote. Someone put it as an FA even thouhg it lost. This is a poorly formatted, poorly refrenced article which should not be here. Tobyk777 00:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:FAC IS NOT A VOTE. For the record, Glass is a legitimate featured article, promoted by Raul July 2004. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
One just despairs of the electorate's knowledge Giano | talk 16:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]


History of the United States

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Article is no longer a featured article.

This article is in the process of being rewritten (or so it seems to me). There are many sections with headings like For details, see the main History of the United States (1964-present) article without any text under that heading. Removed by: DanKeshet

Removed status

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February

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Wikipedia FAQ

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Articles are no longer a featured articles.
Split into two FARS, created Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states

Neither of these are articles, so how can they be featured articles? Emsworth 23:37, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states

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Articles are no longer a featured articles.

Created from Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/Wikipedia FAQ and WikiProject U.S. States

Neither of these are articles, so how can they be featured articles? Emsworth 23:37, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

September 11, 2001 attacks

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Article is no longer a featured article.

Ongoing neutrality dispute. -- Emsworth 23:56, Feb 19, 2004 (UTC)

DNA

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Article is no longer a featured article.

(This article has been the subject of a dispute which won't be resolved in the short-term due to wikiegos.) The article is incomplete: DNA#More_on_DNA_replication -- Stewart Adcock 20:56, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

March

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Origins of the American Civil War

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Article is still a featured article.

It has no lead section that can act as concise encyclopedia article (not in news style), which in addition to being reader unfriendly, makes it very hard to feature this article on the Main Page.

It is also horrendously huge (80 KB!), we should not be encouraging such a huge article size by featuring such an unusably long article. It needs to be broken up in discrete digestible bits (NOT another damn series - if you want to write a book then go to Wikibooks!)--mav 06:41, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Size issue fixed. Article going through the nomination process again. See Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates#Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War

While I don't care about featured status in and of itself, I'm worried that Mav's sending a message that there is no place for a measure of depth and substance on Wikipedia. If you do not have the time or energy to read an 80KB + article, then there's the timeline toward the bottom of the article, the intro lead in sentence, and the one paragraph overview just for you. But others are looking for substance and an overview of where historians disagree, not a dinky chronology that anyone can find in an almanac.
I'm not alone in this regard. Note, e.g., this comment on the talk page: "I am in my first year teaching American history at the high school level, and I thought this article was incredibly helpful, both to me and to my students. Too often, websites or online encyclopedias provide only a cursory overview of the Civil War, or present the lead-up to the conflict as an inevitable polarisation of 'Slavery v. Anti-Slavery' and 'States Rights v. Federalism'. Certainly these themes are central to the conflict, but they were neither inevitable nor straightforward - nor did they take on the moral overtones people tend to give them today. This article avoids those pitfalls - thanks."
See also "Wikipedia for Journalists" By Sree Sreenivasan, Columbia Professor & Poynter Visiting Professor http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=32&aid=62126 . An excerpt reads, "So far, the effort has created numerous reference-quality articles as wide ranging as the Hutton Inquiry, algorithms, social history of the piano, origins of the American Civil War, and severe acute respiratory syndrome. As its quality has improved, news publications have increasingly cited Wikipedia on subjects..." From time to time Wikipedia has to address issues of such complexity. And a "long" article is the only way to give credence to a subject with such a rich historiographical tradition. 172 01:04, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
If you can't create a ~20KB summary then I will. I will start with expanding your overview and combining that with the timeline. There are very valid technical and readability reasons to split this monster up. --mav 06:08, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
No, you will not create redundant article. The executive summary of the origins article belongs in - and is found in - the parent History of the United States article, which contains the executive summaries of its component daughter articles. If you choose to "expand" the overview by "combining that with the timeline," it will go up on VFD right away.
Nor will you dismember the main body of the text. Although you're caught up in the "the news style mantra", I have cited ample evidence demonstrating that others find the in-depth coverage helpful and readable. Nor can you take issue with the latter. A lead-in sentence, an overview, and a timeline already supplement the origins article for clarity and readability. 172 07:58, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Some facts you deleted from this section (which was talk moved from my talk page):

Just for everyone to note, I removed your spam. Perhaps had you "summarized" your spam in the first place I would've had no need to remove it. 172 23:41, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Not spam - I moved the talk and deleted it from my talk page. --mav

Best to keep the detail but put it in daughter articles and summarize the whole thing at the parent. The executive summary you talk about is way shorter than what I was thinking of. --mav

To get to the heart of my real concern, this is fundamentally an argument over the nature and style of history articles. Mav says, "Not sure what to do with the historiography... I for one don't much care for analysis like that since it reads more like a thesis than encyclopedic prose (I instead prefer to do my own analysis after being presented the facts). Much of it could be condensed - but that can be taken care of later." 1. (I disagree with these premises, but that's irrelevant to the point of my example.) I'm not suggesting that these comments reflect negatively on Mav. I'm just saying that our preferences are related to our backgrounds, and that like-minded users shouldn't be dictating stylistic "polices" for history articles. Their preferences ought to be respected - hence we have a short boiler point summary, an overview, and a timeline on the subject - but not hegemonic. In the end, I can argue that Mav wants to write an almanac as well as he can argue that I belong at "Wikibooks."
Although I'm arguing that policy is on my side with respect to featured status, I'm far more concerned about emphasizing that my argument is fair, irrespective of policy. The opinions of readers satisfied by the article are simply underrepresented on this page. They tend to be readers searching for encyclopedic entries rather than active users (that is, readers who were searching for something and were satisfied with what they had found). Mav was complaining about the fact that an anon nominated the page; but I'd say that a nomination by an anon, who might've found the article through a search engine, said even more about the article.
I've also gotten a number of favorable e-mails from readers without user accounts (i.e. "anons"). Interestingly enough, shorter articles never got me favorable e-mails. I make no apologies for writing the article with someone like the author of the following comments in mind: "I am in my first year teaching American history at the high school level, and I thought this article was incredibly helpful, both to me and to my students. Too often, websites or online encyclopedias provide only a cursory overview of the Civil War, or present the lead-up to the conflict as an inevitable polarisation of 'Slavery v. Anti-Slavery' and 'States Rights v. Federalism'. Certainly these themes are central to the conflict, but they were neither inevitable nor straightforward - nor did they take on the moral overtones people tend to give them today. This article avoids those pitfalls - thanks." 2. I also make no apologies for the timeline, despite my doubts that this will do much to strengthen a reader's understanding of the subject. 172 12:20, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

172, me, and AlexS have been trying to work out the size issue on the Origins' talk page. If the outcome of that is a split-up of the article that will probably result in me withdrawing my objection (depending on how it is split up). See Talk:Origins of the American Civil War/categorization. ?mav

Size issue fixed. Article going through the nomination process again. See Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates#Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War

Political correctness

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There is an ongoing neutrality dispute. Emsworth 23:36, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

Pub quiz

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This is a sentinel FARC to represent Rebecca's removal of pub quiz from the featured article list on March 30, 2004 [1] Raul654 21:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Geologic ages

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Removed March 8, 2004 Raul654 22:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This articles dont make me especially proud. Not thats incorrect, its just not brilliant: much more can be done. Muriel 08:18, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Pythagorean theorem

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Article is no longer a featured article.

Editor war on subsection Relationship to non-Euclidean geometry and physical space, Tosha 23:05, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Libertarian socialism

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Article is no longer a featured article.

Discussion moved to Talk:Libertarian socialism/Featured article removal

Removed by Sam Spade 07:36, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC) (due to clear lack of Concensus)

same-sex marriage

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Article is no longer a featured article.

Heavily biased towards gay rights POV --Uncle Ed 18:43, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Bulldogging

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Article is no longer a featured article.

The page should be merged with steer wrestling. Emsworth 23:35, 15 Feb, 2004 (UTC)

President of the United States

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Article is no longer a featured article.

Article should make more prominent mention of how presidents get their position in the first place (preferably at the beginning and nicely integrated with the flow of the text). Currently we have to make do with obscure links at the end to U.S. presidential election and U.S. Electoral College. -- Dissident 04:44, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Done. jengod 01:34, Mar 12, 2004 (UTC)
This objection seems to have been addressed. What's the procedure for re-listing the article? Can anyone just add it back if there are no further objections? --Minesweeper 22:27, Mar 19, 2004 (UTC)

I beg to make an objection (or rather, objections). Firstly, the Article does not seem to mention that the term limit does not apply in the case of terms lasting less than two years. Furthermore, it does not note that the term limits are relevant in the case of elections; an individual who has previously served two terms may suceed to the Presidency in the case of a vacancy. Secondly, the Article misrepresents the facts relating to the Twelfth Amendment. It states, "Since the ratification of Amendment XII in 1804 clarified the electoral process, the President and Vice President have been elected together as a ticket through the constitutionally mandated U.S. Electoral College." After the ratification of the Amendment, despite the statement in the article to the contrary, the President and Vice President are elected separately - not as a joint ticket. Thirdly, the article states, "The winning candidate must receive a majority of electoral votes." I object because the article does not state that a winning candidate can win in the House of Representatives if there is no majority in the Electoral College. Fourthly, I object to the structure of a sentence: " Thus, in order to raise the salaries of other federal employees, the President's salary had to be raised to avoid surpassing the President." It would seem, reading the sentence, that the President's salary was surpassing his own, and therefore had to be raised - which of course does not appear logical. -- Emsworth 03:33, 20 Mar, 2004 (UTC)

Later comments
Lord Emsworth made some excellent points above. I checked the current article, and point 4 has already been addressed. So I struck it out, to reflect that progress. I'll try to come back and look at the other 3. -Pete 07:12, February 25 2007 (UTC)
The other three comments above have been addressed.Richard75 22:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

American English

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Article is no longer a featured article.

This is so not a featured-article-quality article. It's basically a list of AE words, without enough consideration of the use of the language, the reasons why the language grows so explosively, how it compares to other English dialects...It's just not all that brilliant. jengod 03:38, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)

While I find the article to be more than a simple list, I do agree that it should be removed. The article needs significant copyediting for proper English usage and grammer, ect, which is ironic for an article about an English language. Gentgeen 10:49, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Remove. Agree with god and gent; the bizarre circumlocutions (and many red links, with one in the opening para!) knock it right out of 'almost-featurable' status in my book; it will take more than a few good edits to clean this art up. +sj+ 04:59, 2004 Mar 27 (UTC)
Oppose (i.e., oppose removal, support retention). I tend to wonder whether we're looking at the same article. (Indeed, we may not be, since Wikipedia articles change, often in response to complaints.) I'm completely unable to see in what sense it's basically a list. It's true that the table of loan words is about half the length of the article; but then, tables tend to use up a lot of lines. As it now stands, the article has a good deal to say about comparison to other dialects, and the historical reasons therefor. As to copy editing, I've copy edited several things that were proposed for Featured status (with mixed success; some just can't be repaired adequately, e.g., History of China, which I'd like to see fixed and Featured); but I see little editing needed here. One almost wonders if the problem is with English usage, such as "The first wave of English-speaking immigrants was settled..." which in Britain might have a plural verb, but not (usually) in US usage. It's likely that specific complaints will be heeded if they appear on the Talk page. Dandrake 01:56, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)
This isn't a feature article; it's just not good enough. The article is rather poorly written for Wikipedia standards. It would appear to be targetted more toward a high school term paper than a serious discussion of how American English evolved, unless it's an example piece of how American English Teaching is failing. So, I suppose I'd say remove it from Feature consideration, but don't be adding it to the Delete consideration yet. Xinit 17:01, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Remove. These ideas of American English, Canadian English, etc... and other varieties of Languages are, sometimes, merely ideas and sometimes local ignorants-pride. I want to know if there's a serious and impartial linguist that support these "varieties" ideas. Most of these "varieties" are various dialects, some of them are more similar to a dialect in other country's "variety" rather to the "variety" and they are not uniform and the variety is mostly just a dialect that became standard. In Portuguese, I verifyed that. I've created Angolan Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese (edited most of it), I just made it because there is about English, and I see it as a more cultural subject than linguistic and some credible linguists support the "variety" idea, while others dont even think about this.-Pedro 01:48, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

April

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Concept album

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Article is no longer a featured article.

I nominated concept album to be removed from Featured Articles. It consists of one paragraph that vaguely tells the history, and then a list of about 150 examples - with descriptions as informative as "a man goes insane," "The story of a poor outcast," and "Deals in part with bouncing back from near tragedy." Work needs to be done in detailing the history a well as in verifying and properly explaining the examples. Don't get me wrong, I love the info the article gives me - but as it stands now, it really shouldn't be a feature. Kingturtle 02:40, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Remove to cleanup; then perhaps return to featured. Agreed with kingT -- the list of examples needs elaboration for the article to shine. +sj+ 05:01, 2004 Mar 27 (UTC)
Just a list with a stub grafted onto the top of it. Remove. Tannin 10:56, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Second removal. Fredrik 21:27, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone out there in wiki-land object to the removal of this article from the Features list? If not, I intend to remove it this weekend. Kingturtle 17:46, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Representative peer

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This is a sentinel FARC for the April 2004 defeaturing of this article after it was merged with peerage. This page was merged with peerage [2], and later unmerged and restored to FA status.[3] Raul654 15:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Erdős

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This FARC is a sentinel for my removal of Paul Erdos from FA list on April 14, 2004 [4] Raul654 21:20, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

May

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Nude celebrities on the Internet

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Article is no longer a featured article.

I am nominating this article to be removed. It is not especially informative. It reads more like a pamphlet. Kingturtle 06:28, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Original sin

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Article is no longer a featured article.

A large-scale removal of copyrighted material left this full of holes. What remains is reasonably well-written, but the article as a whole is far from complete. Until the missing sections are filled out, it's not front-page material. --67.71.77.254 05:19, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Law of Demeter

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Law of Demeter is listed under the Philosophy heading, but seems to have little to do with philosophy. (The article itself defines the LoD as "a design guideline for developing software.") In additon, the article itself, while well-written, is much less comprehensive and generally less impressive than most other featured articles. --Conover 04:17, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)

June

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Ernest Hemingway

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Nausiously flowerly language. Article flow is horrible, and the introductory section is non-existant. The article was added with no discussion on the FAC on July 19, 2003 (page diff). →Raul654 21:21, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)

Support removal. It reads like an essay, not an encyclopedia article, e.g. "A Farewell to Arms is a male fantasy all the way through, a kind of ambulance driver's wet dream." — Matt 21:32, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Political correctness

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Article is no longer a featured article.

An article that routinely offends its readers, prompts significant edits that are invariably reversed, and has to warn on its talk page to “read talk page discussions before making changes,” is not representative of the Wikipedia. Isn't that close to the opposite of our ideal? Even if it were well written, I don't see why we would direct readers to an article about an expression of such dubious origin, application, and implication. Nathan Hamblen 20:34, Jun 5, 2004 (UTC)

I'm removing the article from Wikipedia:Featured articles, as I apparently should have done when first listing it here. Also, I'd like to add that in being controversial (it has msg:controversial on its talk page, and a history of carnage too), the article is strictly excluded from Wikipedia:What is a featured article. Nathan 21:57, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

You appear to have misread, the statement is (must) "Be uncontroversial in its neutrality and accuracy (no ongoing edit wars)." Sam [Spade] 23:19, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
You appear to have bypassed the removal process and taken it into your own hands to remove this from Featured Articles. IMHO, this is not on. We have this voting process for a reason. Ambivalenthysteria 03:51, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Read the text at the top of this page. Nathan 05:58, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)

Sam, that article's neutrality and accuracy are disputed by me and several other people. I could add the disputed NPOV notice back to the article itself, which would spark another edit war, invalidating the article from being featured in yet another way. Would that make you happy? Nathan 16:35, Jun 14, 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps I misunderstand how this is supposed to work. A I undestand it Nathan not only listed the article here (OK) and removed it from the Wikipedia:Featured articles list (OK), but also unilaterally removed the "featured articles" notice from the article's own talk page. Is that how this is supposed to work? -- Jmabel 23:22, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know either... to me it made sense to remove that notice, but if you don't like it you can unilaterally add it back. I don't see a policy on it one way or the other. Nathan 16:35, Jun 14, 2004 (UTC)

Hi, while I don't think the article should be completely deleted (at least not yet) I certainly do not in any way believe this is 'Featured' article material. There are still problems with this page, and with so many other good ones, why on earth is this considered as being excellent work? --ArcticFrog 14:09, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)ArcticFrog

Could you guys please provide some specific, fixable suggestions that would meet the objection criteria? Sam [Spade] 16:33, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Uh, yea..how about using highly opinionated statements in the opening definition and supporting them with stuff like this:[5]. How do you support an opinion with an opinion? I have made several recommendations about specific changes, most of which are reverted w/o good reason. It seems to me that someone dead set on using this article to make a political statement. If you can't stand to rectify this material, then not only should it be removed from the 'featured' list, but should probably just be deleted. The article should only state what everyone agrees on: that the term means using a substitute term for one that may be offensive. Anything else is a political jibe as there is no consensus on it and it only appears in unquestionably biased political pieces. Is this encyclopedia a soapbox or not?--ArcticFrog 19:01, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)ArcticFrog

as I said in talk, I was providing evidence of usage. The article doesn't state that this usage is what P.C. means, but rather than this is what some people mean when we say it. Sam [Spade] 19:08, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I provided a couple more citations to that particular, just for good measure Sam [Spade]

I vehemently maintain my objection. "Evidence of usage" just shows someone's opinion. If this is to continue, we should go to the Rush Limbaugh page and after the intro, put this "And also, some people think he is 'a Big Fat Idiot'" and refer to the Al Frankin book. It's a fact that some people think that...right? So we should say it? It's irrelevant; it's nonsense; it's a political jab where none need be. I object to the citation itself, and the others don't look much better. --ArcticFrog 22:30, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)ArcticFrog

There's a reference above to objection criteria. I know of know such criteria, other than failing to live up to Wikipedia:What is a featured article. Because the bar to be featured is so high, the bar to remove them is low, particularly for an article such as this one that was never voted into the featured list by the community. In my view, Political correctness falls short in the following featured criteria:

As for "fixable suggestions," that's not my concern. I don't think it's possible for the article to be improved enough to be featured, at least not with its current attack-dog editors. If it ever is, though, that's when it should be listed on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates and voted in like any other article. Nathan 08:25, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

I've read the article again and am happy to say that it's been improved. I'm sorry to say, though, that it still seems to be at odds with itself. About half the times that "Political correctness" appears in the article (strange capitalization, by the way) it is preceeded by the disclaimer "so-called." Ha! That's the name of the article, and people don't agree on what it means. (I'm in the "so-called" camp.) That was and continues to be my primary objection. Until the article represents a full and accurate disclosure on the expression's orgins, uses, implications, etc, and does so in an orginized and well written way, I will object to it being featured. Nathan 15:21, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)

I think its only fitting that an article about politically correctness is not considered politically correct. JCreedon Jul 14, 2006 (UTC)

July

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Fancy cancel

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Article is no longer a featured article.

this is barely bigger than a stub. How can it be a featured article? This article lacks breadth and detail. Kingturtle 09:40, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Kingturtle. Furthermore, it ought to be moved to pictorial postmark where it belongs. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 16:24, May 22, 2004 (UTC)
Support removal, for exactly the reasons given. Don't agree with the proposed name change though; it's apparent from the article that "fancy cancel" is a term of the art. Securiger 01:48, 24 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Illegal prime

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See that article's Talk page for the kind of objections that I see. I don't see the content as at all either well-written, nor a true topic that is fit for inclusion into an encyclopedia. It seems so contrived to fit a specific POV. - 65.119.52.66 22:40, 10 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Sons of Noah

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Not a bad article by normal standards, but is on some occasions off-topic and contains some doubtful information. Should not be a showcase for Wikipedia work. DJ Clayworth 15:30, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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