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June 22

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File:28342-0-300-0-300.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 05:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:FamousIcelanders.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Stifle (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 14:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:CawleyasKirk.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Not deleted, due to a lack of consensus.

I recognize that this is a complex case. In articles on fictional characters, where the character has been portrayed in many visually different ways, how many non-free images are appropriate? How well-known does a portrayal have to be to be included? How much does one portrayal have to differ visually from another, and how much does that visual difference need to be discussed? These are not black and white issues, and arguments on both sides are well-founded. Without consensus, I have chosen not to delete.Quadell (talk) 14:21, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
File:CawleyasKirk.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Arcayne (notify | contribs).
  • precisely which criteria doesn't it meet? It illustrates one of only three major dramatic (read: serious) portrayals of the subject. the image represents the fan production at preserving the 60's series. . And Cawley has in fact been the subject of third-party commentary. I mean, its right in the article. Did someone miss that? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 05:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "precisely" the one I quoted: #8, Significance. "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." A guy wearing a yellow shirt with a pompodour doesn't significantly increase our understanding that a fan has played Kirk, and removing the image doesn't at all obfuscate our understanding of the topic. --EEMIV (talk) 12:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to agree, which is yet another reason for the picture to only be within a cultural impact section that helps improve the understanding of the character's cultural impact. Sticking it in depiction is giving a fan production too much weight IMHO. We have already been down that road & really don't need to rehash it again. Erikeltic (talk) 14:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Get rid of it. I'm still thinking of deleting it myself. SChaos1701 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC).[reply]
Delete it & the one at Spock. I don't think either belongs in the primary biographies. I could see putting something like that under Culture Impact, but that's about it. Ideally, it should be in its own article about Phase II. Erikeltic (talk) 02:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - regardless of *where* in the article it goes, the image of Cawley belongs in the article, as does the one of Pine. These two, along with Shatner, are the primary visual representations of Kirk out there, and should be highlighted. MikeWazowski (talk) 05:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I can see Mike's point and I am willing to change my vote to keep, but the main issue for me is placement. Erikeltic (talk) 11:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How so? I think the way it is, withreliably-cited info about Cawley's portrayal in the Depiction section next to the image, seems spot-on. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 12:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Despite the odd obsession that Trek fans have with canon, the images clearly illustrate one of only three depictions of the subject of the article in mass media. As well, since both actors are supported by reliable citation and are connected to the article by the text, there isn't any failure of RfCC. At all. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 05:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, my "obesssion" has nothing to do with canon is is clearly shown here. Erikeltic (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And, for the record, I wasn't referring to you, E. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 12:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care about canon, either. I care about WP:NFCC. If Cawley's (physical) appearance and depiction were subject of broader coverage/discussion beyond the Wired anecdote, it would be appropriate to include. But he isn't, so it isn't. You keep whipping out this griping about canon here and on article discussion pages, but it's an annoying dead horse. If you need me to say it yet again: I have nothing against non-canon portrayals and including the information, appropriately weighted, at Wikipedia. So, please drop the "boo to canon purists" nonsense. Anyhow: Cawley and other fan depictions may be popular with a niche of fans, but hardly any part of the real world really cares about her specific appearance/performance -- hence the dearth of coverage in the actual article; given that lack of substantial material, the inclusion of an image isn't necessary and violates WP:NFCC #8. --EEMIV (talk) 12:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So your argument is not that it isn't a violation of NFCC#8, but rather a continuation (or in furtherance) the current debate regarding the application/misapplication of 8. the image fulfills the criteria as written and generally interpreted. If it has a reliable citation (which it does), then it is significant. If the depiction is discussed (which includes appearance), then it is further connected. I am sorry, but this seems to be bending the application of #8 incorrectly. Cawley is only the third person to portray Kirk on over 40 years, which is in itself significant. There are a total of four images in the article, one of a commemorative marker in Riverside, Iowa, one of Shatner, of Pine and of Cawley. How is using the image of Cawley undue weight,as you have hinted at with the "niche" comment? I am sensing a less than neutral intent here (specifically, the comments in article discussion clearly indicate a dislike of fan media), which is inapprorpiate in an encyclopedia. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 13:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If it has a reliable citation (which it does), then it is significant. The picture of Spock giving the middle finger came from that article and could have the same citation. We've already been down the road of why that shouldn't be included right here.  :) In addition, James Cawley's bio doesn't even have a picture of the guy. Why then does the Kirk article need one? Erikeltic (talk) 01:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Simple, Erikeltic: because we do not have a free use image for use in a BLP (which, unless celebrities are checking out in groups of more than three nowadays, Cawley is), whereas we do have an image of him portraying a character wherein fair use is a tad more lenient in an article about the fictional character. And really, do you want to walk that precarious road about the incorrectly referenced, pointy image upload again? I mean, do you think this is the correct step to take at this juncture? I really don't think it is, and you rather know it isn't (having admitted such), so maybe stop, okay? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. Does the current location of the image within the article work for you at this point? Have we reached a consensus on that issue? Erikeltic (talk) 03:32, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is what the article says about the subject of the picture:
Wired observes that while Cawley's depiction "lacks Shatner's vulnerability", the actor has enough swagger "to be passable in the role of Captain Kirk".[85] Cawley, due to his portrayal of Kirk in the Star Trek: Phase II web series continuation, is well-known enough in Trek fandom and at Paramount that a group of Star Trek: Enterprise writers called out to get Cawley's attention by shouting "Hey, Kirk!" at him while Shatner sat nearby."
Can you please explain in what way the picture of this actor significantly increases readers' understanding of the topic, or how the picture not being there becomes "detrimental to that understanding?? --EEMIV (talk) 18:25, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As has been mentioned before, it remains useful for identification purposes, just as images of the only other two fellows that portrayed the character. Readers want to know who we are talking about. As well, the cited comparison to Shatner invites comparison by the reader, and the depiction does so as well. Long story short, as it is the only other notable depiction of Kirk, it seems nonsensical to exclude it. If we didn't have cited references for the portrayal, that would be one thing. However, such is not the case here. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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File:Zachariah supernatural.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 02:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:Gordon Walker (Supernatural).jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 02:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:Zlatarlake.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 02:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:Phoemela Baranda on Maxim Magazine.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 02:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Phoemela Baranda on Maxim Magazine.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by TitanOne (notify | contribs).
I've only emulated the use of such from articles such as Ashley Tisdale, specifically this picture. The picture illustrates the many magazine covers she has graced already. If this is unacceptabble then the same should be done to other pages not just this picture? --TitanOne (talk) 03:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also this picture illustrates the international editions of Maxim where it is also posted. --TitanOne (talk) 03:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Though that use was added after I began this discussion. In that case there is no discussion of the image and the rationale "Illustrate article about International editions of Maxim" does not give a hint as to how the image passes the WP:NFCC requirements. It looks to me as a simply decorative use of a magazine cover in an article with an adequate and existing non-free one. It fails NFCC#8 in the Maxim article and probably NFCC#3a as excessive use of non-free content - Peripitus (Talk) 04:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine if it does not comply however what of the other images that follows the same chain or emulates the same usage of such?--TitanOne (talk) 05:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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File:Stacy Haiduk as Patty Williams.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Keep - Consensus is that image may be used to identify character appearance. However, it is inappropriate to use a non-free image to identify a living actress Papa November (talk) 10:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Stacy Haiduk as Patty Williams.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Rocksey (notify | contribs).
If the character looked any different to the actress in this shot I might be inclined to agree somewhat with you. In this case a headshot of the actress and a headshot of the character will only differ by the hairstyle....hardly a difference that is going to cause a reader of the article undue issues in understanding the subject - Peripitus (Talk) 07:13, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 02:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:2000car.PNG

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:XTC as The Dukes of Stratosphear - 25 O'Clock.jpg

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File:XTC as The Dukes of Stratosphear - 25 O'Clock.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Memphisto (notify | contribs).
The small differences are of such a minor nature, particularly in thumbnail form, that the images are practically identical. "helping to illustrate the article" is not an argument that meets the NFCC requirements - Peripitus (Talk) 06:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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File:Janet jackson just a little while uk 2.jpg

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File:Jalwtvpromo-small.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Jalwtvpromo-small.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nick2341 (notify | contribs).
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File:U9louuop.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:U9louuop.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kekkomereq4 (notify | contribs).
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File:All Nite Dont Stop-Front.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:All Nite Dont Stop-Front.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by PiperHalliwell9673 (notify | contribs).
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Johnny Eck pics

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The result of the discussion was: Delete all (manual closure to avoid confusing bot) –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 01:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Eckhardt Twins.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by NileQT87 (notify | contribs).
File:Johnny Eck & Rajah Raboid.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by NileQT87 (notify | contribs).
File:Conductor Johnny Eck.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by NileQT87 (notify | contribs).
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File:Don't Open 'Til It's Doomsday cover.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Don't Open 'Til It's Doomsday cover.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by AlienRage (notify | contribs).
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File:1967 - The Supremes Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland -Enhanced by Jonathan Gardner-.png

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:1967 - The Supremes Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland -Enhanced by Jonathan Gardner-.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JonathanLGardner (notify | contribs).
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File:XTC as The Dukes of Stratosphear - Psonic Psunspot.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete. Peripitus' assessment seems accurate to me... the changes are very minor and can be described easily in text. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 01:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:XTC as The Dukes of Stratosphear - Psonic Psunspot.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Memphisto (notify | contribs).
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File:Penelope-pepperpot-quarter-1-.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Penelope-pepperpot-quarter-1-.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Carsie100 (notify | contribs).
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File:250th Air Defense Missile Brigade.JPG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:250th Air Defense Missile Brigade.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Buttons (notify | contribs).
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File:333rd Engineering Battalion.JPG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:333rd Engineering Battalion.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Buttons (notify | contribs).
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File:3rd KOV Brigade.JPG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:3rd KOV Brigade.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Buttons (notify | contribs).
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File:4th KOV Brigade.JPG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:4th KOV Brigade.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Buttons (notify | contribs).
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File:98th Air Base.JPG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:98th Air Base.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Buttons (notify | contribs).
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File:ES wire NE.png

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:ES wire NE.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Omegatron (notify | contribs).
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File:Konjickisteg1904.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Konjickisteg1904.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Cinoeye (notify | contribs).
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File:Resadiye.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Resadiye.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Macukali (notify | contribs).
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File:LeToya - She Ain't Got... (Explicit Version cover).png

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Drilnoth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 03:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:LeToya - She Ain't Got... (Explicit Version cover).png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JonathanLGardner (notify | contribs).

Delete- Pointless. KMFDM FAN (talk!) 22:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File:CherryCokeBottle.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: No consensus to delete. – Quadell (talk) 14:08, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:CherryCokeBottle.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jeffness (notify | contribs).
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files