Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... I am surprised how an important article like this is nominated for deletion!!! These are important and dangerous events! --Osps7 (talk) 05:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate Page

Shortly before this page was added to the current events portal, i accidentally created another page in October 2023 Gaza-Israel clashes, which is probably a better name. Either that one be deleted and merged into this or the other way around. Totalstgamer (talk) 05:44, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 7 October 2023

Operation Al-Aqsa Flood → October 2023 Gaza-Israel clashes – both more neutral and includes a wider scope of events, including the allegedly ongoing but undoubtedly inevitable Israeli response Totalstgamer (talk) 06:00, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's a convention around Gaza-Israel conflict names, such as in 2023, 2022, 2021, 2014 and 2009. What happens, inevitably, when Israel leads a counter-operation? Totalstgamer (talk) 06:15, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then this should be taken up at a larger discussion board, since convention naming practices do not agree with each other. The 2023 clash example is solid, but like I pointed out with Operation Overlord, Wikipedia named based on the operation. I think since we have the official operation name within 2 hours of the war starting, the operation name is still the most appropriate to use here. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 06:18, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per nom, as well as Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Military history#Operational codenames and Talk:2022 Gaza–Israel clashes#Requested move 5 August 2022.
Mupper-san (talk) 06:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, per the MOS, it might be WP:TOOSOON to tell whether or not it isn't the "famous" name. Heck, we have several reliable sources mentioning this by name (the operation name) within a few hours of it starting. This rarely happens, even in the overall Israel-Palestine conflict. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 06:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And Operation Cast Lead is not used for the Gaza War (2008–2009). I don't see any reason that the Hamas title should be used as the primary name, especially for such a contested topic, any more than Israeli operational names should be used for other cases.
Mupper-san (talk) 06:42, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't ever heard of "Operation Cast Lead" before, so that makes perfect sense. However, also per MOS, if it is well-known, then it can be used. The following news articles mention "Operation Al-Aqsa Flood" by name: Al Jazzera, Barrons, Bloomberg, Mint, News 18, Times of Israel, Hindustan Times, and others (4-pages on Google news already for that exact quote). Per MOS, which was linked earlier, well-known military operations are named based on their operation name. The military operation started a few hours ago and we already have 4 pages of news articles mentioning it. It is TOOSOON to truly tell whether or not the operation name will stick or not. I recommend putting this requested move on hold for at least 48 hours to see if the majority of news outlets mention it by the operation name or not. This RM in general was WAY too soon, especially since right now, there is way more media outlets calling it the operation name. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 06:49, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move from current NPOV title but these are looking a lot more serious than the usual "clashes," more akin to a Hamas offensive/attack/invasion of Israeli territory. PrimaPrime (talk) 06:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a reasoning for the NPOV title reason? Operation names are used as Wikipedia titles (i.e. Operation Overlord). If you are thinking the title violates NPOV, then you aren't actually thinking with an NPOV, given that operation titles are used for several article titles on Wikipedia. (Not an accusation at all, but an observation that a title from Hamas is NPOV, but a title from the US isn't NPOV...) In complete reality, the RM discussion isn't at all about NPOV issues/potential issues, but rather if it is the more common name, since that is what MOS states. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 06:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The main article for that topic is Normandy landings, if this conflict expands to the point where we decide to split off a separate article just about the Hamas opening strike then perhaps the Operation _____ format would be appropriate. PrimaPrime (talk) 07:18, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I’ll have to agree to disagree with you on that I guess. I still believe there is (1) enough RS sources using the “Operation Al-Aqsa Flood” (or “Operation Al-Aqsa Storm” — translation differences) name to where it is the main name for this. Also, the Normandy landings isn’t the name topic for Operation Overlord. It is the most well-known part of the operation. But this isn’t (1) small clashes (given media has used the term “war” and Israel also used the term “war”) and (2) this isn’t a small battle/small part of an operation (like the Normandy landings are a small part of the whole Operation Overlord)… Operation Al-Aqsa Flood is like Operation Overlord, with these smaller “clashes”/battles across Israel and the Gaza Strip, not to mention the various rocket struck cities.
All of that is to say Operation Al-Aqsa Flood is closer to what Operation Overlord is than it is to say the Normandy landings. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 07:28, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until dust settles GLORIOUSEXISTENCE (talk) 06:54, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. this may become a full scale war. Wait until official word is given. 85.65.187.175 (talk) 07:01, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Israel has announced the name for its own operation to counter the incursion so a descriptive title is obviously preferable over the operation name of one party to the conflict. Lightspecs (talk) 07:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom Abo Yemen✉ 08:21, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Operation Al-Aqsa Flood is the name of the Hamas operation, Israel launched Operation Iron Swords in return, both should be covered under a WP:NPOV --Jurryaany (talk) 08:28, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, what is happening is unprecedented and unheard of in the last two decades. In recent history, this is extremely escalating regarding Israel-Palestine, and Israel is now in a full state of war. Winn24 (talk) 09:07, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support '2023 Gaza-Israel War'. Abo Yemen✉ 09:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support with an alternative name of '2023 Gaza-Israel War', given that Israel have declared a state of war. - Hu753 (talk) 09:10, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support The IDF is calling there operation "Operation Iron Swords" now, so should we have two articles for the same event? I don't think so. But if we are going to, we should label each by their respective operational names according to each side. Completely Random Guy (talk) 09:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Most of them uses the "Operation Al-Aqsa Flood",no need to stress out about this. MissionGuyNoob (talk) 09:49, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Don't need two articles for same event and as is customary in this area, we don't use operational names of one of the sides for neutrality reasons.Selfstudier (talk) 09:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Point of information - it has been redirected already with this edit at 09:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC) - Fuzheado | Talk 11:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the start of a new antifada ?

looks like the new antifada 2600:6C50:1B00:32BE:B1BD:E5DB:1402:2AC5 (talk) 06:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Until the majority of reliable sources state this, it is not. Nythar (💬-🍀) 06:43, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Antifada? it's a massacre. terrorists infiltrated the towns, broke into houses and murdered women and children 2A02:6680:1102:4DDB:31F5:AC85:6BCB:2115 (talk) 08:10, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

this is a war

looks like a war 2600:6C50:1B00:32BE:B1BD:E5DB:1402:2AC5 (talk) 07:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a massacre. 2A02:6680:1102:4DDB:31F5:AC85:6BCB:2115 (talk) 07:46, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Low importance?

So Israel declares a state of war and this is a "Low importance" article for both Israel and Palestine? Genabab (talk) 07:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article will likely be re-rated later, it only just got created and it is about a current event. SignedInteger (talk) 07:59, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The location of this conflict being listed as "Gaza strip" is misleading at minimum

Obviously the terrorists came from the Gaza strip, however the operation within itself is being conducted in the surrounding area. Israel will probably retaliate inside the strip, however that has not happened yet. 87.6.58.122 (talk) 07:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorists infiltrated the towns, broke into houses and murdered women and children. 2A02:6680:1102:4DDB:31F5:AC85:6BCB:2115 (talk) 08:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Possible avoidance of the term "resistance fighters"

In the description is currently the phrase "Palestinian resistance fighters". This possibly runs the risk of not looking neutral. In various sources right now [1] [2][3][4]they are consistently being referred to instead as "militants". Nonovix (talk) 08:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fake news

The article is full with spreading of rumors and false information. One Merkava is captured and one destroyed? Over 35 soldiers, police officers and civilians captured? Those are rumors. Don't spread them. 2A10:8012:7:7A7E:AE61:EC3:4EC:4F41 (talk) 09:19, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've remove it. There is indeed some video that claims this, but they aren't verified, and no claims where made in the Palestinian media. HiyoriX (talk) 09:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Map of alleged territory seized by Hamas

I have stumbled upon this tweet which purportedly displays the towns under temporary Hamas occupation. Should this image be included in the article? https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1710584095632163250 Ecrusized (talk) 09:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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