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"Genetic studies on Ashkenazim have been conducted to determine how much of their ancestry comes from Europe, and how much derives from the Levant. These studies—researching both their paternal and maternal lineages—point to at least some ancient Levantine origins. But they have arrived at diverging conclusions regarding both the degree and the sources of their European ancestry.[28] These diverging conclusions focus particularly on the extent of the predominant European genetic origin observed in Ashkenazi maternal lineages."
I don't think such a disclaimer is significant enough to put in the lead, since it bears little impact on Ashkenazi peoplehood. I think it should be moved to the section on genetics, where it would make a good introduction. --Monochrome_Monitor 18:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC) Also, "extent of the predminant European genetic origins" make little sense since it assumes extent, so I think predominant should be taken out. --Monochrome_Monitor 18:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Of course, there's also the Khazar theory, but given its own page and the section here, it makes sense to say that it is hogwash which has been thoroughly debunked by the scientific community.
While nobody in their right mind would deny that there is a statistically significant element of European heritage (because yes, I am classifying historical revisionists as being out of their right minds), the consensus of these studies as formulated in the Wiki is that (a) patrilineal descent is very strongly Levantine, and (b) matrilineal descent features significantly more European ancestry than the patrilineal, but of the three studies cited on the topic, the majority (ie. two) argued for Middle-Eastern matrilineal descent. So ultimately, unless someone wants to update the article itself to say otherwise, describing the article as indicating "at least some ancient Levantine origins" is simply misleading; the information in the article reflects the effect of "A LOT of ancient Levantine origin" (or perhaps substitute "Middle-Eastern", since studies struggle to separate the Levant from the rest of the Mediterranean populations). So ultimately, while I can understand why Al Khazar thought it necessary to revert my edits to the lead, I think I've demonstrated here why the minor corrections I made better reflect what is actually written in this very Wikipedia article, and hence will be reverting back. Benjitheijneb (talk) 09:06, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
As for changing "derives from Levant" to "derives from Europe", that is the biggest red flag applicable to this article and to your own argument (ironically). The term "derive" indicates that Ashkenazi ancestry originated from that location. For obvious reasons, "derives from Europe" is incorrect because they originated from the Levant and recieved European admixture. Your edit indicates vice versa which ironically coincides with the anti-Semitic Khazar theory. I'm sure you're acting in good faith, but if there is no more support for you, this edit will be reverted in a week. Khazar (talk) 07:05, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
By Tony Frudakis, Ph.D.[2] There is no a single Y DNA genetic study that contradicts the Levantine origin of AJ Y DNA. So yes, the phrase used has to be changed. (All the genetic studies which point to additional European genetic admixture, beside Levantine, are transgenome genetic studies, that examine both paternal and maternal genes. As someone who is very much familiar with population genetics, I know that there is no single genetic study which question the dominant Levantine origin of Y DNA of AJ. Concerning mtDNA (mternal side) contrary to clear results of Y DNA, one study /Richards at all/ points to dominant European while 3 others (Behar, Ferer and Fernandez) point to dominant Middle Eastern maternal origin of AJ.Tritomex (talk) 09:14, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
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Just saw a documentary "Dead Famous DNA", Episode 3, found on Netflix. The scientist on the program had access to Eva Braun's DNA through her own hairbrush that was taken by an American soldier. The DNA results on her hair showed that she had Ashkenazi Jew ancestry. Pretty interesting and ironic. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ycdx1 (talk • contribs) 04:11, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
The usage of Yiddish is under discussion, see talk:Yiddish language -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 04:52, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
This is regarding my edit from 23:43, 16 August 2015 which was reverted by Debresser. Before my edit, the leading paragraph stated that the Ashkenazi Jews trace their ethnogenesis to Europe. This seems to be a clear mistake to me, as Jews come from the Middle East. The Ashkenazim certainly developed culturally in Europe and became a distinct community among Jews there, but that does not change their Middle Eastern ethnic origins. Therefore, I deleted the phrase "and ethnogenesis," since it implied that the Jews are European, rather than Middle Eastern.
It's obvious that it would be impossible to arrive at rabbinic Judaism without a pre-existing rabbinic tradition going back to the land of the Jews in the Middle East. It's not as if a Jewish population popped into existence in Europe without a seed population of ethnic Jews. The Jews in Europe got there from somewhere else where they existed earlier, namely, the Middle East. Therefore, ethnogenesis of the Ashkenazim was certainly not European.
As cited later in the article, DNA analysis supports the Ashkenazic account of exile from their homeland in Judea and Samaria. Some admixture may have occurred later in Europe, but this is completely irrelevant to the ethnogenesis. The original gene pool of the Ashkenaz community was already formed before this admixture, and so by definition we must designate the older seed population as the ethnogenesis of the Ashkenazim.
Furthermore, the original statement had no citations. Despite Debresser's edit comment, I was not deleting a sourced statement. Even if this were a controversial statement, this would actually be a reason to remove the statement from the leading paragraph completely and leave the discussion for a later section in the article. Certainly it should not be left in such a prominent place unchallenged. Musashiaharon (talk) 06:54, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
But all those points relate to their ethnicity as Jews. The distinctive points that make them Ashkenazim as distinct from other Jews all arise in Europe. As you say, it's not a question of ultimate origin but of characterisation; and that must mean the characterisation of the particular group, not of a wider group which it forms part of. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 16:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
The Ashkenazis became a distinct group in the Holy Roman empire around the 10th-11th century, that is to say, they became linguistically/culturally at least in part distinct from say, the Jews in Iberia, or the Jews in Provence, or the Jews in Milan. That is what is mentioned in the lead, all the long articles on genetic origins and admixture are in the DNA section. Guy355 (talk) 16:43, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Religion has nothing to do with it, Christianity wasn't created in Europe either, practically no European today practices an actual European religion, with the exception of the Saami perhaps. Guy355 (talk) 09:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
So ethnogenesis and biological lineage are two, although often associated, completely different things - checked. Ethnic is a term associated with a group of people who developed certain way of life, based on common language, customs, traditions, rite, habits, mentality, and geographical locality - checked. Biological lineage can be traced via new genome technology, in laboratory - checked. Article seems to have real trouble escaping a trap (it goes back and forth, while some contributors flip-flop in their argumentations): controversial issues underlying certain interpretations used to fit certain history narratives, unfortunately almost always invented or revised, motivated by ideology and burdened with very current political agendas.--Santasa99 (talk) 21:58, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
It is surprising that no geneticists have commented in this article on scientific perspectives of the Ashkenazim; i.e., the clear North African genetic origins of a high percentage of people who either practice Judaism, or who are from that background. Especially those who are nominally from an Ashkenazi background. Here is one of several genomic labs focused on scientific markers of the Askenazim: http://ashkenazigenome.org/ And, elsewhere here in the Wiki there is a significant entry delving into that: Genetic studies of Jewish origins. Sidney Orr (talk) 22:32, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
any information on this? They call me Mister Tibbs (talk) 16:30, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
The is huge undue weight on Ashkenazi genetic origins, which basically copies and pastes much of genetic studies on Jewish origins. They is no real "controversy" as to European admixture in Ashkenazi Jews. ALL JEWS show admixture from their host populations, particularly maternal admixture. Both Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews have about 30% European admixture, which according to many comes from an ancestral population of Jews in northern Italy, considering Jewish relation to italians.[2] There is this "pure Jews" bullshit going on. Iranian Jews also have admixture, they have Persian admixture. Turkish Jews have admixture... and Yemeni Jews, often heralded as the most "authentically Jewish" of all Jews, have been found to have such a great genetic similarity to Arabs that they likely descend from Arabian tribes who converted to Judaism. There is this bs mystique of supposedly enigmatic with Ashkenazi Jewish origins as opposed to Sephardic, whom they are incredibly closely related to. --Monochrome_Monitor 17:53, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
References
The logical place to cite Das et al. 2016 is after Behar et al. 2013, which itself comes after the mentioning of the Elhaik et al. 2012 study on this page. As a peer-reviewed article in Genome Biology and Evolution[1] there's no legitimate way Das et al. 2016 cannot be cited in this article as it clearly is completely focused on the overall origin of Ashkenazi Jews.Avrahambeneliezer (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
References
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@Debresser:: In response to your edit summary, Why would a more comprehensive list of editors be called "clutter"
. I deleted the long list of 20 authors in that citation, because when there are that many, it makes it hard to skim for pertinent information. All of the major citation styles (MLA, APA, Chicago, etc.) let you put "et al." if there are more than 3-8 authors and then you truncate it to 1-3 names plus "et al.", so at most you'd only ever list 7. At the end of the day I don't really care that much. I'm just answering your question. —PermStrump(talk) 21:37, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
I have some proposals for adding. There are some statistics on physical appearance from the Jewish Encyclopedia cited from various studies.[3][4] A section for this is suggested to be created as in other articles, e.g. Greeks.
The genetic section may also be a little changed, the male lineages part relies on a few studies. I suggest the data of the study of Rootsi 2013 et. al to be added, which confirms that the variety of R1a among the Levites is absent in 1000 sampled Eastern Europeans and that R1a-M582 found among the Levites is a clade restricted to Asia. I think that this is an essential information, because it is now only implied that the frequency of R1a among Levites is like that of Central or Eastern Europeans. I also propose the inclusion Zossmann-Diskin 2010 [5], the most comprehensive study on Ashkenazim I have found, because analyses all lines of evidence - autosomal, paternal and maternal. Zossmann-Diskin cites the claims of all the studies cited here in his conclusion.Userius (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
It seems that he concluded new views, not present in the article, some of them are somehow unexpected and possibly unlikely. He speculates that the parental lineages constitute genetic drift on the basis of the autosomal analysis. Though it is said that EEJ mtDNA are mostly European throughout the article, the study places them by mtDNA intermmediate between Middle Eastern and European populations, by Y DNA, however, they remain in the Middle Eastern cluster. Nevertheless, he claims that both lineages are misleading, because of genetic drifts and varitety of reasons and should not be used to trace the origin of EEJ. Instead he uses autosomal analysis for that and concludes that EEJ seem to be mostly of Italian origin. And autosomal analysis is what the paper is mostly about. He criticized some previous studies for erroneously defining dominant Middle Eastern origin of Ashkenazi autosomes due to a methodical failure, while agreeing with Cochran et al for claiming dominant European origin of Ashekenazi by autosomes.
I'll help with citing some interesting statements. For example, unlike Rootsi, he supports European origin of Ashkenazim R1a : "haplogroup R-M17, whose frequency is ~12% in Ashkenazi Jews. By comparing the structure of the STRs network among the various Ashkenazi populations and among the various European non-Jewish populations they reached the conclusion that a single male founder introduced this haplogroup into Ashkenazi Jews in the first millennium"(actually he quotes another study)
"The mtDNA analysis presented in this study does not place EEJ among other European populations rather their position is more intermediate and marginal, as can be seen in figure figure55 and in figure figure6,6, where autosomal distances are correlated with mtDNA distances. This lends further support to the notion that because of the unique demographic history of EEJ, their uniparental markers were subjected to stronger genetic drift than the biparental markers and thus should not be used to trace their origin."
"The autosomal genetic distance analysis presented here clearly demonstrates that the investigated Jewish populations(Mizrahi) do not share a common origin. The resemblance of EEJ to Italians and other European populations portrays them as an autochthonous European population. EEJ seem to be mainly Italian (Roman) in origin, which is easily understood, considering the historical evidence presented above"
"It thus seems possible that EEJ founder population in Rome was composed of exiled Israelite males and local Roman females. In its simple form this clearly contradicts the facts, because both the autosomal and X-chromosomal polymorphisms demonstrate that EEJ do not occupy an intermediate position between European and Middle Eastern populations, but rather a strict European one. From table table11 it is clear that Italians are as close or closer to the other Jewish populations and Palestinians as EEJ. It is possible that once the founder population was established no other males but many females joined it, thus creating a population that is almost entirely European in all genetic aspects apart from its Y chromosomes"
"The inference that the NRY points to a Middle Eastern origin of EEJ is erroneous not only because the Y chromosomal analysis contradicts the analyses based on the other chromosomes, and because the NRY is a single uniparental marker that does not represent the whole history of the population, but also because its smaller effective population size makes it much more vulnerable to severe genetic drift caused by demographic bottlenecks"
"EEJ are Europeans probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism at times, when Judaism was the first monotheistic religion that spread in the ancient world. Any other theory about their origin is not supported by the genetic data."
I included none of these claims in the section.Userius (talk) 13:58, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
There was a Jewish state by the name of Israel in antiquity on the same land where there is a Jewish named Israel now. I don't understand the complaint. How are they not the same? Also note that if any of the responses amount to "Ashkenazi/Sephardi/modern Jews are not REALLY Israelites" then I will respond by pointing out WP:BIAS before promptly walking away.ChronoFrog (talk) 08:55, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
It is mostly the same territory (we didn't have Ashkelon back then, for example), and they are both nation-states of the Israelite people.ChronoFrog (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
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Records assert there are not many Jews in Germany prior to the sixteenth century.
Concentrations may have existed in Russia during the first millennium regardless of evidence correlating a northerly and westward migration pressed by expulsion attributable to Saint Vladimir. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.211 (talk) 23:31, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
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To reflect the scientific fact that Ashkenazi Jews are descendant from the Khazar Tribe, this has been proven by John Hopkins and is Scientific FACT, all private racial DNA tests list Ashkenazi's are Khazarian-Turkic. There is no evidence to support Ashkenazi's are Semitic nor middle eastern, however, the Sephardic Jews are. This is a FACT and must be addressed, any attempts at whitewashing it, or quoting highly erroneous and discredited studies done before 2012 should be revealed as misinformation. 2001:569:BC08:8200:2CE7:E0B6:B26D:7E3B (talk) 03:44, 2 January 2017 (UTC) " This is a controversial request, which as a matter of fact has been rejected in the past several times. Please do not add the edit request till such time as there is consensus. Debresser (talk) 05:26, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Please consider new research showing no connection to the middle east
http://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.195.168 (talk) 10:29, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
In the late 19th century, it was proposed that the core of today's Ashkenazi Jewry are genetically descended from a hypothetical Khazarian Jewish diaspora who had migrated westward from modern Russia and Ukraine into modern France and Germany (as opposed to the currently held theory that Jews from France and Germany migrated into astern Europe). The hypothesis is not corroborated by historical sources[147] and is unsubstantiated by genetics, but it is still occasionally supported by scholars who have had some success in keeping the theory in the academic conscience.[148] The theory is associated with antisemitism[149] and anti-Zionism.[150][151]
This is all a laughingstock caricature. The 19th century scholars did not argued in terms of genetics, a science that postdates the period. The Khazar hypothesis was originally about eastern European Jews, not about the Rhineland hypothesis primarily. There are several theories about the origins of Jews in Europe, not just the Rhineland vs Khazar hypothesis. No hypothesis like this or the Rhineland hypothesis is corroborated by historical sources: these theories both arose in lieu of historical sources, which are lacking for both. What 'keeping a theory in the academic conscience' is supposed to mean is anyone's guess. The Khazar hypothesis is not intrinsically anti-Semite or antizionist, since it has been supported by Jews and Zionists. All these points were once clarified by careful editing on related pages. Whatever you guys think about the idea, and I have no problem with those who think it nonsense, it must be described accurately, and neutrally, and not with dumb offthehand writing like the boorish pastiche that some idiot has now restored.Nishidani (talk) 16:06, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Just become someone is Jewish or Zionist does not mean everything they write is in support of either. People are people ok? .Jonney2000 (talk) 16:38, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
The theory is associated with antisemitism[149] and anti-Zionism
The theory as it is currently framed is associated with antisemitism and anti-Zionism beyond a doubt and trying to remove that is not good faith
Saying that the Khazar hypothesis is associated with anti-semitism is an attempt to discredit it by associating it with something bad. It's like creationists arguing that the Nazis believed in evolution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultrabomb (talk • contribs) 03:28, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
Chronologically: "The Jewish communities along the Rhine river from Cologne to Mainz were decimated in the Rhineland massacres of 1096. With the onset of the Crusades in 1095, and the expulsions from England (1290), France (1394), and parts of Germany (15th century), Jewish migration pushed eastward into Poland (10th century), Lithuania (10th century), and Russia (12th century)."
Obviously events in the future can't effect the past. What is the 9th-11th century migration from? I'm not sure how the Crusades effected Jewish Migration. As the Jews were expelled from various countries by the dates mentioned, they were received in Eastern Europe. A edict of protection was created for them in Poland around this time. Still, the earlier migration is confusing. 76.19.232.52 (talk) 05:57, 11 March 2017 (UTC)John Dee
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There are studies that support the Khazar hypothesis. https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/61/728117/The-Missing-Link-of-Jewish-European-Ancestry http://jogg.info/pages/11/coffman.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultrabomb (talk • contribs) 20:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Whoever has been reverting my edits wants to keep mention of studies whose results contradict their position off of Wikipedia.The ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews is a political issue. But, politics and science don't mix. The article should mention studies supporting both positions and let readers decide for themselves which they think is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultrabomb (talk • contribs) 03:24, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
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The DNA test 23 and me classifies Ashkenazi jews as being European rather that being middle eastern. So are Ashkenazi jews not really middle eastern but a small group of Europeans who converted to Judaism and eventually called themselves Ashkenazi jews? If Ashkenazi jews are not real middle eastern people but instead maybe a group of celtic people who converted to Judaism then ashkenazi jews are not real jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.44.231.114 (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
How is "Ashkenazi" pronounced? (I'm not going to waste my time and energy trying to decipher that ridiculous IPA nonsense, which appears to be purposefully designed to make it impossible to see how a word is actually pronounced.)
Joe26713 has repeatedly inserted content about a DNA test taken by one Ethan Klein, an operator of a Youtube channel called h3h3Productions. At least 4 other editors, before me, have removed this material, finding it to be inappropriate or insufficiently important to be used in this article about Ashkenazi Jews. [6][7][8][9][10][11] I find no independent reliable sources to establish the significance of this particular test, and a strong current consensus against its use here. Accordingly, this material should not be restored unless a change in consensus is first established by disucssion here on the talk page. --Arxiloxos (talk) 20:23, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
This statistic, repeated three times in this article, appears to come from a publication by Arthur Ruppin in 1930 (not 1931), and also not to be strongly supported [12] (not that there is necessarily another number that is better).--Pharos (talk) 02:55, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
What's wrong with saying that Ashkenazi Jews have differences with Mizrahi Jews regarding rituals and Hebrew pronunciation?--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 00:36, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
There is no reason to list Pashtuns (also known as Pathans) as a related ethnic group to Ashkenazi Jews. This is highly misleading. The reasons being:
Given the above facts, the removal of Pashtuns/Pathans as being particularly closely related to Ashkenazi Jews is reasonable.
Wadaad (talk) 23:17, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
References
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Khazar Hypothesis Please change: In the late 19th century, it was proposed that the core of today's Ashkenazi Jewry are genetically descended from a hypothetical Khazarian Jewish diaspora who had migrated westward from modern Russia and Ukraine into modern France and Germany (as opposed to the currently held theory that Jews migrated from France and Germany into Eastern Europe). The hypothesis is not corroborated by historical sources,[164] and is unsubstantiated by genetics, but it is still occasionally supported by scholars who have had some success in keeping the theory in the academic consciousness.[165]
The theory has sometimes been used by Jewish authors such as Arthur Koestler as part of an argument against traditional forms of antisemitism (for example the claim that "the Jews killed Christ"), just as similar arguments have been advanced on behalf of the Crimean Karaites. Today, however, the theory is more often associated with antisemitism[166] and anti-Zionism.[167][168]
A 2013 trans-genome study carried out by 30 geneticists, from 13 universities and academies, from 9 countries, assembling the largest data set available to date, for assessment of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic origins found no evidence of Khazar origin among Ashkenazi Jews. "Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region", the authors concluded.[169]
To: In the late 19th century, it was proposed that the core of today's Ashkenazi Jewry are genetically descended from a hypothetical Khazarian Jewish diaspora who had migrated westward from modern Russia and Ukraine into modern Poland. The Results of genetic studies conflict on the theory. A 2013 trans-genome study carried out by 30 geneticists, from 13 universities and academies, from 9 countries, assembling the largest data set available to date, for assessment of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic origins found no evidence of Khazar origin among Ashkenazi Jews. "Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region", the authors concluded.[1] The results of other studies support the theory, for example "A MOSAIC OF PEOPLE: THE JEWISH STORY AND A REASSESSMENT OF THE DNA EVIDENCE" [2] by Ellen Levy-Coffman and "The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses" [3] by Eran Elhaik. 2605:E000:1703:6154:B9B8:7F4:1A0D:A6B1 (talk) 02:45, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
It would be an improvement because it would make it accurate and politically neutral. See the section below this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1703:45A4:358A:5DED:D422:A6C0 (talk) 18:19, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
References
Final version at http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss6/9/
((cite journal))
: External link in |quote=
(help)
There is evidence that the Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the Khazars. But, some people want to keep it out of the article to further a political agenda. They're afraid that it would weaken the Jewish claim to Israel if it turned out the Ashkenazi Jews were descended primarily from people other than the Israelites. They don't care about the truth. They just want to turn the article into a propaganda platform.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:e000:1703:45a4:358a:5ded:d422:a6c0 (talk • contribs)
Do they? [1]
I've been fighting this battle for over 2 years. Why do you think there's been so much opposition to my edit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1703:45A4:358A:5DED:D422:A6C0 (talk) 19:53, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
References
I never wanted to fight. Other people have been fighting me, including you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1703:45A4:358A:5DED:D422:A6C0 (talk) 20:30, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
Ashkenazi Jews did not assimilate for several reasons:
1. In Poland / PLC Jews were under direct protection of the Crown, not ruled by local nobles. They had a privilege of self-government. 2. Forcible conversion of Jews in Poland and later PLC was punishable by death. Unalike Western Europe Jews did not have to assimilate to survive. 3. PLC was a land that was home to Catholic Poles, Catholic and later Protestant Germans (almost all Polish cities after Poland converted to Christianity, between 966 and 1200s were started by German settlers), Catholic and later Protestant Lithuanians, Orthodox White Russians, Ruthenians and Cossacks, Old Slavic Church Serbian refugees from Ottoman Empire, Muslim Tatars, etc. all very different in custom, dress, language and worship, Jews did not stand out at all in that mix, unlike the West, which was pretty uniform from Germany, through France all the way to Britain. 4. Persecution of Ashkenazi Jews in Central Europe started with the fall of PLC in 1795. Under the administration of Austrians / Germans / Prussians the Ashkenazi Jews were reminded why they left the Holy Roman Empire in the first place. Russian Empire, being home to a multitude of ethnic groups of all possible religions did not target Jews specifically, but did not protect them specifically either, so persecution encouraged by local nobility (keen on expanding their lands holdings) was ever-increasing and more bold. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.12.16.172 (talk) 00:34, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fyya (talk • contribs) 11:08, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
But, I cannot do it.
this part here
Biblical Ashkenaz is usually derived from Assyrian Aškūza (cuneiform Aškuzai/Iškuzai), a people who expelled the Cimmerians from the Armenian area of the Upper Euphrates
needs this link added to the word Cimmerians
Cobradetroit (talk) 18:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Above, where it says this article is of interest to WikiProject Judaism, it says it is rated as High Importance, but should it be rated as Top Importance? Vorbee (talk) 15:15, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
while an estimate made in 1930 (near the population's peak) had them as 92 percent of the world's Jews.[33] Immediately prior to the Holocaust, the number of Jews in the world stood at approximately 16.7 million.[34] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.140.159.110 (talk) 08:46, 4 October 2019 (UTC) since only 1 mln of sephardic, mizradhi and ethiopian jews was just 80 years ago according to this nonsense and other holocausters claim that 6 mln that supposedly perished in 1945 were 95% of all jews in Europe...fix this nonsense...additionally now some jews claim that 38 mln jews are living in the world
I think it would be valuable to add in this article why the Ashkenazim started migrating and thrived in Poland. What is missing in the "High and Late Middle Ages migrations" section is mentioning of 1264 Statute of Kalisz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Kalisz) which created legal protections for Jews, which were later extended by King Kazimierz Wielki, or Casimir the Great, in the early fourteenth century.
This is nicely described here https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/resistance-during-holocaust/jewish-life-poland-holocaust as:
Jews had been living in Poland since at least the Middle Ages. When Crusaders moved through Europe in the thirteenth century, Jewish refugees sought safety in Poland. The 1264 Statute of Kalisz created legal protections for Jews that were extended by King Kazimierz Wielki, or Casimir the Great, in the early fourteenth century. With these protections, Jewish communities in Poland began to thrive. Scholars suggest that by the sixteenth century, 80 percent of all Jews worldwide lived in Poland, where they enjoyed relative autonomy and tolerance and developed a rich social and cultural life, including several significant Jewish religious movements, such as the Hasidim (a sect of Judaism with an emphasis on mysticism and prayer) and a Jewish reformation movement called the Haskalah.'
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Jews were not seeking safety, they came with invaders during crusades and were the main force behind all crusades — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.140.159.110 (talk) 08:55, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
That can't be right. This source says 100.000 Jews in total and I believe they are mostly post-WII immigrants. If I'm wrong, I'd love to see the source (really). 93.132.46.43 (talk) 19:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
I intend to add an update to the article with new information about the transformation of Ashkenazi culture after the second world war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvallentine1211 (talk • contribs) 03:20, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
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This sentence I feel is very misleading: "In the late Middle Ages, due to religious persecution, the majority of the Ashkenazi population shifted steadily eastward,[27] moving out of the Holy Roman Empire into areas later part of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, comprising parts of present-day Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Poland, Russia, and Ukraine" 1. Jews were barred from German cities mostly in the Middle Ages NOT late Middle Ages as much. Late middle ages means 1400-1500. A very significant migration happened in the 1300s to Poland especially Krakow under king Kazimierz Wielki 2. ..into areas later part of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, comprising parts of present-day Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Poland, Russia, and Ukraine... This part is misleading. Poland should be first on the list as it was the first territory they entered. Then Lithuania, Latvia, Moldova and Ukraine. Please note Russia did not allow any Jews into the country, in fact, even when Poland east was taken over by Russia in 1795, Jews were not allowed into Russia proper, but could visit for short periods to do business (they were not allowed to settle there). The Russians called the territory acquired from Poland the 'Pale of Settlement'. Jews from this area were incorporated into the Russian empire, but as stated earlier were barred from settling in Russia proper. I would not include the word Russia in that list. I think emphasis must be made to reflect that more than 50% of Jews in the middle ages, in Europe lived in the territory that is now Poland.
Thanks for reading this. My email: wojciech_mar@hotmail.com I am a licenced city tour guide in Krakow, Poland GoodViewFromHere (talk) 13:02, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Yiddish has an Old French substrate with words like leyenen, briv, and others; should this be added to the lead (if appropriately sourced)? It's an important element of both the history of the Ashkenazi Jews and of Yiddish, forming part of the link between the Jews of Judea, the Jews of the Roman Empire, and the Ashkenazi Jews of the Middle Ages. פֿינצטערניש (Fintsternish), she/her (talk) 12:54, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
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STOBI it is part of REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA, or you can write: STOBI it is part of MKD, the flag of MKD it is yellow sun on red layer Vanhelsingskopje (talk) 17:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Haredi or Hareidi or both? This article has four of one and two of the other. As a former proofreader, I would prefer to see six of the same spelling, and I’ll make that amendment in a while if no one demurs. Otherwise, it can lead to people spending time trying to find out whether there is a difference or whether they’re just alternative spellings (as I did).Nick Barnett (talk) 09:04, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Please review the sentence in the article:
"Biblical Ashkenaz is usually derived from Assyrian Aškūza (cuneiform Aškuzai/Iškuzai), a people who expelled the Cimmerians from the Armenian area of the Upper Euphrates,[40] whose name is usually associated with the name of the Scythians."
The use of the word WHOSE is not clear. It could refer to "a people" or "Cimmerians" or Armenians. Less likely but still possible grammatically, it could refer to "Biblical Ashkenaz". Please clarify the sentence in the article.
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GreekLantern (talk) 13:49, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
In reference 91 "Glanstein" should be changed to "Gladstein"
Gladstein AL, Hammer MF (March 2019). "Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews inferred with Approximate Bayesian Computation". Molecular Biology and Evolution. 36 (6): 1162–1171. doi:10.1093/molbev/msz047. PMID 30840069.
Agladstein (talk) 16:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Done. Thanks, warshy (¥¥) 16:59, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
the khazars are descendants of turko khazars in southern russia ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:FA:5F05:F400:C86:D647:3DC3:1AF7 (talk) 08:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
There's a study by Jiao-Yang Tian, Hua-Wei Wang, Yu-Chun Li and Wen Zhang called "A genetic contribution from the Far East into Ashkenazi Jews via the ancient Silk Road" that clearly states: "An early eastern European Ashkenazi origin from Italy (first millennium and earlier) would also agree with the finding that an origin mainly from Germany or another central or western European country during the late Middle Ages, is demographically not possible."[1] Do not remove - it's a constructive feedback. It's a known fact that many of the people who go by the name "Ashkenazi" aren't such. Too bad Wikipedians here are ignorant whose bias destroys this site's credibility. Sincerely yours, a Jew.--Mark Savage (talk) 04:17, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
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