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@Dbachmann: I think this should be merged with Assyrian nationalism. It's silly to have an article "proof our nationalist historiography is right".--Monochrome_Monitor 14:57, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
I disagree. The article is not about nationalism or any political concept, but rather of historicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.25.101 (talk) 01:15, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Nationalism in regards to the Assyrians is essentially about their struggle for unity, self determination, autonomy or independence, and not their historical origins, the two are not synonymous.
On the topic of their historical origins, I believe the attempt to merge this section with Assyrian nationalism is in fact really an attempt to bury Assyrian identity, which is well supported.
There seem to be a fair few people who have a very specific problem with the Assyrians on Wiki, and yet those same people rather hypocritically never challenge or raise continuity claims made by a whole host of other peoples on Wiki, even though many are far less well supported academically and historically than Assyrian continuity claims.
The attempt to place the views of John Joseph as essentially the entire intro to this page, and expunge the mention of Saggs, Frye, Parpola, Biggs etc is a prime example of Anti-Assyrian POV. This is bizarre even on academic terms, considering that John Joseph is not in fact an Assyriologist, Iranologist, Orientalist, Classicist, Archaeologist, Anthropologist, Archaeogeneticist, Geneticist or Linguist, while those whitewashed from the intro are recognised experts on the subject. Joseph is merely a generic academician, and others, like Fiey and the rather obscure Wilmshurst, are merely theologians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.25.101 (talk) 09:34, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Disagree with a merge for the pretty simple reason that ethnic/cultural/historical continuity from some point in the past does not equate to Nationalism, it's merely the history of a particular people. The two just aren't synonymous!!!
By the reasoning put forward for a merge here, the histories of pretty much every nation, ethnicity, people and race should be merged with Nationalism, now that would be nonsense wouldn't it? Especially as Nationalism is a purely and solely Political concept.
I think the reasoning behind a merge with Assyrian Nationalism is political in that Anti-Assyrianists are losing the argument about Assyrian continuity. And that my friends is the sole motivation here. The contributor who proposed this is an avowed opponent of Assyrian continuity, and a vociferous denier of Assyrian heritage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.79.169.94 (talk) 13:21, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Assyrian continuity's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Frye":
And the ancient Assyrian empire, was the first real, empire in history. What do I mean, it had many different peoples included in the empire, all speaking Aramaic, and becoming what may be called, "Assyrian citizens." That was the first time in history, that we have this. For example, Elamite musicians, were brought to Nineveh, and they were 'made Assyrians' which means, that Assyria, was more than a small country, it was the empire, the whole Fertile Crescent.
((cite web))
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(help)I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:22, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
To clean the appearance of this article up, maybe a timeline extending from the earliest evidence of Assyrian people up until the present day could be drafted. Organizing the page into periods of history is easier to digest as we're dealing with a people who's history extends to millennia. In creating sections for different periods of history and populating all the information chronologically would increase the usefulness of this article. Ramsin93 (talk) 22:57, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
This article is already way too long and should be shortened. Post-hoc publications lacking academic rigor like The Modern Assyrians of The Middle East, archived from the original on 2022-02-09, retrieved 2022-02-09 by John Joseph and promoted by the religio-political organization Aramean Democratic Organization is WP:POV and shouldn't be in the article.
Many of the opposing views in this article are from activists who cite each other, and collaborate together. Beth Mardutho, founded by Syriacist George Kiraz, which seeks to "promote the study and preservation of the Syriac heritage" has previously hosted Adam Becker as a visiting lecturer in Beth Mardutho Language Courses, archived from the original on 2022-02-09, retrieved 2022-02-09 ((citation))
: |archive-date=
/ |archive-url=
timestamp mismatch; 2021-12-24 suggested (help). David Wilmshurst has used George Kiraz's academic publishing company, Gorgias Press as a publisher. In the first link I mentioned, John Joseph himself thanks Kiraz. The list goes on. Any meaningful connective tissue between them should at least be considered for inclusion in this article. 2600:1010:B06C:8E03:B534:6D5A:2A5F:D756 (talk) 01:21, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
The article says there's 14 loanwords from Akkadian not attested to in other languages and cites a book from 1974. A more current study by Dr. Geoffrey Khan in 2007 claims there's over 300 loanwords from Akkadian with a majority not attested to in other languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suret_language#Vocabulary.
Dr. Khan is one of the world's preeminent scholars of semitic languages. A bit of his work was cited before the article was pared down, but I think it's worthy to mention this tidbit regarding linguistic continuity. 2600:1010:B00C:92EF:C86A:DC15:9A78:3B30 (talk) 06:55, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the rewrite, Ichthyovenator. I do have a few concerns after skimming through.
What does this mean? I don't see how the relationship between the words has any bearing on identities, or else we would have to say that "Frankish" is not a different identity from "French".
This paragraph is set up as a refutation of Wilmshurst, but is unconvincing. It cites two examples of biblical names and then admits that the absence of ancient Assyrian names doesn't really mean anything. Baldassare and Baltasar were in use in western Europe by the 15th century.
Wilmshurst (Djwilms) used to edit here. His last comments on this article, from 2015, are in the archive. Srnec (talk) 16:04, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Now when you don’t know what a word means, what do you do? You look it up in a dictionary! Luckily for you I have done that job for you. I have looked up the word Oromoyo (Aramean) in two authoritative Syriac-French (Syriaque-Francais) and English-Syriac dictionary.
In the French dictionary under the name Oromoyo it gives the explanation of two names: Araméen and Syrie, syriaque. (Dictionnaire Syriaque-Francais, Louis Costaz)
Another authoritative dictionary is the English one, under the name Oromoyo it gives a similar explaining, that is; Aramean and Syrian. (Syriac-English Dictionary)
In the Hebrew dictionary the word Aram gives us the impression of two names; Aram and Syriac (suryoye)
758 'Aram arawm' from the same as 759; the highland; Aram or Syria, and its inhabitants; also the name of the son of Shem, a grandson of Nahor, and of an Israelite:--Aram, Mesopotamia, Syria, Syrians.
761 Arammiy ar-am-mee' patrial from 758; an Aramite or Aramaean:--Syrian, Aramitess.
762 'Aramiyth ar-aw-meeth' feminine of 761; (only adverbial)in Aramean:--in the Syrian language (tongue), in Syriac.
1130 Ben-Hadad ben-had-ad' from 1121 and 1908; son of Hadad; Ben-Hadad, the name of several Syrian kings:--Ben-hadad.
By all Biblical translations the word Syria gives the meaning of Aram. I am yet to find a biblical translation that doesn't translate Syria into Aram and Aram-naharaim.
By the Catholic Encyclopedia the term ’’Syria’’ gives the meaning of Aram and Arameans.
In German litterateur; regarding their ”Semetic studies” the word ”Syria” and ”Syrian” is translated to ”Aram” and ”Arameans”. (Prof. Dietrich Hermann Hegewisch & Prof. Theodor Mommsen & Prof. Theodor Nöldeke & Prof. Karl Eduard Sachau)
Now moving on to a Syriac dictionary by Mor Touma Audo, a Aramean-Chaldean scholar and archbishop of Urmia, Iran. This is important because it is a Syriac dictionary. Mor Audo published ”The treasury of the Syriac language” in the year 1897 and it is still used today by Syriac monks, teachers and bishops. If we look under the word Oromoyo what we find is the term Oromoye renowned in Suryoye: Aramaya, Aramaye hanaw den Suryaye, Lishono suryaya aramaya, suryaya. In English: Aramaic, Arameans i.e Syriacs, Aramaic language, Syriac. And if we read in his preface he writes quotes like ’’The Aramean name is our genuine and original name’’.
I can talk for hours about the interrelation between the word Suryoye (Syrian) and Oromoye (Aramean) but I hope by now that some confusion has been clear. 185.176.246.64 (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
This article is very one sided and acts as if this is settled science. It should also include arguments that go against the continuity which are plenty. 2001:DF4:3200:1500:71B1:AEE1:A449:95C1 (talk) 06:01, 27 June 2023 (UTC)