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Section sizes Section size for Communist state (32 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 11,480 11,480 Overview 359 8,362 Development 4,213 4,213 Institutions 3,790 3,790 State 5,124 19,354 People's democratic state 1,005 1,005 People's republican state 6,085 6,085 National-democratic state 1,632 1,632 Socialist-oriented state 3,591 3,591 Socialist state 1,917 1,917 The state system of unitary power 64 35,954 Legislatures as the highest organ of state power 8,856 17,491 Constitution 23 8,635 Role of constitutions 5,297 5,297 Constitutional supervision 3,315 3,315 Government as the highest administrative agency of state power 2,297 2,297 Judicial organs and socialist law 5,855 5,855 Military 17 5,848 Control 4,778 4,778 Representation 1,053 1,053 Ruling party 21 4,399 Leading role 2,488 2,488 Internal organisation 1,890 1,890 Economic system 3,115 3,115 Analysis 11,098 16,925 Memory 5,827 5,827 See also 355 355 References 30 30 Bibliography 19 11,846 General 607 607 Articles and journal entries 6,798 6,798 Books 4,422 4,422 Total 107,421 107,421

This article was nominated for merging with Socialist state on September 2014. The result of the discussion was Keep.

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Should this article be moved to 'Marxist–Leninist state' and why or why not? Read lead sections of 'Marxism–Leninism' (by definition pro-statist to pave the way for an eventual communist society that would be classless and stateless) and 'Communism' (by definition anti-statist, an oxymoron - 'stateless state'). I would therefore argue WP:PRECISE policy should take precedence over WP:COMMONNAME. -Vipz (talk) 19:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, it is completely oxymoronic. Not to mention that there have been socialist projects that were not Marxist-Leninist in nature, although were/are still in fact ideologically communist, for example, Revolutionary Catalonia, EZLN-controlled Mexico, Post-Independence Tanzania, etc. digiulio8 (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with move to 'Marxist–Leninist state' per @Vipz (OP) and @digiulio8. -Gluonz (talk) 23:29, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Makes more sense TheUzbek (talk) 07:24, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vipz Since it doesn't seem there's been any opposition, should a formal move proposal be initiated? -Gluonz (talk) 23:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gluonz: I don't think it's worth initiating it at this time because it's going to get squashed by the "common name" argument, but you're free to act on your own accord. Cheers. –Vipz (talk) 23:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vipz 👍 -Gluonz (talk) 23:24, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vipz and Gluonz: What about moving the article to "Socialist state (Marxism–Leninism)"? --TheUzbek (talk) 11:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's pretty clear that Venezuela is also under a communist government due to the actions they have taken and are taking to this day. 186.15.23.55 (talk) 00:39, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• The article is an article on "communist state", not a list of countries that may or may not have been communist at some point. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's on a more appropriate list instead: List of socialist states#States with governing communist or socialist parties. –Vipz (talk) 09:23, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that Communist state be renamed and moved to Socialist state (communism). A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use ((subst:requested move)). Do not use ((requested move/dated)) directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Communist state → Socialist state (communism) – While "Communist state" is a good term used by scholars, the common people and many in the Wikipedia community refuse to link the articles of China, the USSR to this article, but rather to the much worse article "Socialist state", which is badly written and deals everything and nothing at the same time. The best way to deal with this is to create the article "Socialist state (communism)", which is as correct as "Communist state". Hopefully, more in the Wikipedia community will link to this article instead of "socialist state". An alternative title would be "Socialist state (Marxism–Leninism)", but I feel that the average reader does not really know what Marxism–Leninism is, but they do know what communism is. All communist states have officially adhered to Marxism–Leninism.

These states officially called themselves socialist states; no state has ever called themselves communist states. --TheUzbek (talk) 07:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support TheUzbek (talk) 11:07, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• oppose current title is a WP:NATURAL and sources use it so no sense complicating it—blindlynx 15:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If so, why do articles on the USSR, China, et cetra, consistently link to socialist states? Why do constant discussions take place over the term communist state, which many believe to be an oxymoron and the consistent counter-argument that these states are socialist states? TheUzbek (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That's not an issue with this title but rather of people's behaviour, This article is well sourced and is a good fork but perhaps people don't thinks so? could you link to some of these discussions?—blindlynx 15:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Talk:China/Archive_16, [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]

  Note that the "Government" description in the infoboxes uses the term "Communist state". I have changed it to "Communist state". The fact of the matter is that these states called themselves "socialist states" since the term communist state is an oxymoron (communism is generally believed to be stateless). TheUzbek (talk) 07:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Its an issue when users link to the wrong article making it harder for our readers to get access to proper information. TheUzbek (talk) 07:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  agreed but i don't think this is the ready for this porblem. The issue is that communism and socialism are different things sticking to official names or insisting that 'communism is stateless' both fail wp:v which isn't something we should address with a move that muddies things further—blindlynx 13:23, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  But how does "Socialist state (communism)" "muddies things further". It uses the official designation of these states "socialist state" and uses communism to clearly signify we are speaking about states governed by communist parties? I would think it clarifies more than it muddies.

  I am open to other suggestions, but as things are it clearly doesn't work... TheUzbek (talk) 13:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't think people will use the new title any more than this one, i don't know if there's an easy solution here unfortunately—blindlynx 16:57, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  here. I added communist state and a user has argued against the term. TheUzbek (talk) 13:06, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Here is another revert. I added communist state to the Polish People's Republic, and it was reverted based on this argument; "It wasn't a Communist State, if it was Communist, there wouln't be a State, because in an Communist society, there don't exist a State" TheUzbek (talk) 13:18, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose, no reasoned rational provided. --Yorkporter (talk) 21:36, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That these states call themselves "socialist state" is not a reasoned rationale? No communist state has ever called itself a socialist state. TheUzbek (talk) 07:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - I don't really understand the rationale. The present title appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME for this and is also WP:NATURALDIS.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:43, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose – I apologize, but the unwillingness of editors on the cited pages to reference the "Communist State" page sound like the problem, not this page. Agreed with Common Name concerns, I think prioritizing correctness in Marxist jargon over commonly-understood descriptors is unencyclopedic. Garnet Moss (talk) 01:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. If certain WP editors "refuse" to link to the correct article, that is a behavioral matter that needs to go to ANI probably.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:04, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support; it would make the title less of an oxymoron. However, I think a title closer to “Marxist-Leninist state” would be preferable. –Gluonz ^{talk contribs} 15:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]