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As the talk page of the Southern Front shows, there seems to be disagreement between editors on what makes an individual brigade/battalion/movement/etc. part of the FSA. As someone who has followed this conflict closely since early 2014, I can attest that most analysts consider the "Free Syrian Army" to be less of an "army" and more of a "banner". In other words, it's not an official organization with an official leadership and member list recognized by all FSA groups (although there have been attempts to do just that). Any group that identifies itself as part of the FSA is considered part of the FSA. Not all FSA groups use the traditional Free Syrian flag in their logos (see Army of Mujahideen and the Army of Dignity/Jaysh al-Izzah), and not all groups that use the traditional Free Syrian flag are considered part of the FSA (see Authenticity and Development Front). Assuming other people here concur with this definition, I think we ought to make this definition clear in the article - perhaps even devoting a section to it. We would need to gather sources for this definition of course; at the moment I don't have time to do that but hopefully I will in the next few days. Bulbajer (talk) 17:32, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
@Bulbajer,abcdef: I notice Bulbajer saying (and abcdef agreeing) that “most analysts consider the FSA” to be a ‘banner’ more than an ‘army’. Sorry friends, would you mind to corroborate such far-reaching presumptions/theses (or how should I call them)?
How can anyone possibly contradict such a statement about “most analysts” if you don’t indicate at least some of them? Presently, the FSA is a “group”, that’s what our article on FSA says, and its formal leader(ship) is being described in its § ‘Command structure’. If you consider all that incorrect (and can prove that with serious corroboration) it is time for you to start ‘correcting’ that article—and not just only make such suggestions/assertions (possibly reflecting how you’d wish FSA to be considered by the world: ‘wishful thinking’), here and on several other Talk pages.
“Any group that (…) is considered part of the FSA”, you state. ‘Considered’ by whom? By you? And by whom else? (Editor abcdef ofcourse(1 July), but whom else?) Wikipedia is not for describing how Wiki editors consider things and hope for the rest of the world to consider them too, but to reflect how (reliable) sources describe the reality.
Abcdef states that New Syrian Army “considers itself part of the FSA”. Perhaps, but I can’t find that referenced anywhere in that article—so why should we believe you stating that, abcdef? If you (or Bulbajer) disagree with certain Wikipedia articles, please start repairing them, instead of only throwing all such uncorroborated (but wished-for?) assumptions/(would-be-'certainties') on quite many Talk pages. --Corriebertus (talk) 12:52, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
There’s a lot of discussion going on among politicians, journalists and commentators about the existence of FSA (as a real, combative, structured army), its strength, et cetera – see the current lead section and Infobox of article Free Syrian Army and its section 7 ‘Questions of existence, combativeness and structure’. In that light, I believe Wikipedia should be scrupulous about acknowledging/confirming any presumed/alleged membership of individual groups of FSA.
Presently, the Infobox lists some 59 “groups”. 29 of them bear a reference purportedly underpinning its membership of FSA. Another 19 refer to a separate main article with a ‘blue’ wikilink, suggesting the underpinning takes place in that article. Another 11 have neither reference nor ‘blue’ wikilink. To achieve a more neutral and correct presentation of the FSA’s strength and size, I propose to split up that list of groups, inserting a new §3 ‘Memberships’, with two subsections:
In addition, only those ‘current members’ will be listed in Infobox as “groups”, with extra caption: “Current members:”. --Corriebertus (talk) 12:20, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
The strength of the FSA has never been clear since 2011 (as is stated presently in section Strength). A recent estimate, Dec 2015, has only been given by a (rather obscure) Turkish think tank: 35,000 fighters; therefore that number is listed in the Infobox on top of the article.
Several serious commentators (NBC, Fisk, Jarrah, IBT, Cockburn) however also have (recently, 2015) called in question the entire existence of a ‘Free Syrian Army’ (worthy of the name ‘army’). Their lines of reasoning are summarized in section Questions of existence, combativeness and structure. To present that balanced picture also in the Infobox, the Infobox contained, next to the (not very authoritative) number of ’35,000 fighters’, also the notion that, according to some, the FSA does not really exist (anymore) (as army).
That information however was deleted from Infobox on 10July,02:02, by Shawn.carrie, with motivation: ”bias”.
Exactly the same disqualification: “bias”, was given on 3July08:51 by a new and anonymous editor as motivation for deleting the entire section Questions of existence, combativeness and structure, which I’ve repaired on 6 July.
But neither that section ‘Questions’ destroyed 3July, nor that mentioning in Infobox deleted 10 July, I believe to be an example of bias: they are simply providing our readers with relevant information from relevant sources/commentators. Some serious war observers have doubts over questions like whether or not we should (still) consider FSA an existing army. Nobody has to believe or agree to such doubts—but it is our duty to profer them for interested readers.
The same goes for the mentioning in the lead section, calling attention to those commentators questioning FSA’s influence/existence/structuredness, distorted 27May23:41 by NullaTaciti without clear motivation and then wholly removed 10July02:17 by aforementioned Shawn.carrie with that same motivation: ”bias”. I do agree though, that that mentioning in the lead had gotten too long—after BoogaLouie,16June,00:30 had extended the existing concise remark about it in the lead by repeating at length what was already being said in section 8 (‘Questions…’), perhaps having gotten over-enthousiastic in passing on those doubts of commentators. But I surely think those doubts are important enough to be given short attention in the lead section, so I’ve restored a short remark about them in the lead. --Corriebertus (talk) 12:44, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
That whole list of groups in the infobox is sourced to twitter, reddit and facebook. At best these are indirect links to primary sources. I suggest that anything that cannot be reliably sourced to secondary sources is removed or at least tagged with cn tags.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:05, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
This article is a mess with not much use for the reader. I strongly recommend to make it a history article, about what the FSA as an organization once was and did, categorically structured along a timeline. In the process, more than half of the text will disappear as of no encyclopedic value. And the infobox pretending that "FSA" would still be an existing organization should be deleted. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 21:33, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Please do not delete the list of groups using the FSA label. At least one IP-editor persistently tries to do so, claiming that he would be "providing a link to the other pages reduces pages while providing the same informatron". However, that is not true. There is no other place on Wikipedia where groups of moost various affiliations and loyalties are listed according to their relationship to the "FSA" label. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 18:06, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Editor 2A1ZA on 20Sep2016,15:21, added the statement: “During the Turkish military intervention in the Syrian Civil War, FSA-labeled groups in the ranks of the Syrian Democratic Forces and FSA-labeled groups in the ranks of the ad hoc rebel coalition which Turkey had assembled for the operation fought each other”, without source given.
On 28Sep09:49, he expanded that assertion into: “(…) islamist FSA-labeled groups in the ranks of the ad hoc rebel coalition which Turkey had assembled for the operation fought each as well as fought against secular FSA-labeled groups in the ranks of the Syrian Democratic Forces” and ascribed that to source Al-Monitor 27 Sep 2016 (‘Turkey faces…’). But both assertions are not said in Al-Monitor, and no other source is given for them. I implore editor 2A1ZA to stop adding such unfounded assertions to this Wiki article, lest we’d have to resort to the Wikipedia community for harder measures against (such) vandalism/polluting/corrupting articles. --Corriebertus (talk) 14:30, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
I find the current intruduction problematic, as it appears to suggest that "FSA" would still denote a coherent organisation today, which it most obviously does not. The introduction definitely needs a sentence which in some form describes the use of the term "FSA" today, namely a promotional label that is opportunistically used or rejected by any Syrian Civil War group. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 16:27, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
Please help monitor the page as multiple IP vandals are synchronizing on twitter to vandalize the page. --Yug (talk) 22:35, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
It's not just twitter, m8, us anti-terrorist folk congregate elsewhere. --14.203.98.54 (talk) 03:34, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
If something suspicious arise, ask a semi protection on WP:RfPP and warn using ((subst:uw-vandalism1)). Wish you the best ! --Yug (talk) 23:43, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
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I recommend the visitors of this talk page to quickly visit this page: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Turkey Backed Free Syrian Army. --Corriebertus (talk) 14:46, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
article has bias,needs rewriting,like it denies FSA was an existing force.Alhanuty (talk) 03:46, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
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I don’t think all the opponents and allies list of the rebels should be removed, the Wikipedia rules don’t state disputes are done in edit notes and none of those edit notes regarded the rules so I don’t know what to dispute on why these edits are being enforced, which themselves are against the rules as they didn’t reach consensus Bobisland (talk) 21:09, 20 January 2023 (UTC)