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I have to take issue with the title, which I feel is just reinforcing the sensationalistic nature of the issue - while individual cases still make headlines, there is no "global spread" of a disease. Perhaps "Global cases of H5N1" ? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 03:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Since when was there infection in the uk? 129.31.72.190 12:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I have to agree with the above question. There was a case when a bird died in quarantine, but because it was in quarantine Britain still has disease free status. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4366302.stm Hellfire83 13:10, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
The article says nothing about it, but the image shows the UK as having it. Can we delete the picture? ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 17:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
What we really need is a picture that highlights ONLY the countries named in the paragraph listing outbreak countries (which is almost right next to the image in question). If someone wants to delete the existing inaccurate image I won't revert such a deletion. WAS 4.250 17:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed the image for the moment, not just because of the UK issue, but also because it's a bit misleading: having half the map show up as "infected" gives the impression that it is a giant epidemic, while there aren't that many known cases yet. Wouldn't it be better to represent every known infection with a little dot? -- Mystman666 (Talk) 20:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps there is a misconception. H5N1 has low pathogenic varieties endemic in birds in North America. H5N1 has a highly pathogenic variety that is endemic in dozens of species of birds thoughout south asia and is threatening to become endemic in birds in west asia and africa. It is very hard for humans to catch it so few human s have caught it. The presense of highly pathogenic (deadly) H5N1 around the world in both birds in the wild (swans, magpies, ducks, geese, pigeons, etc.) and in chickens and turkeys on farms has been demonstated in millions of cases. The locations on the maps where H5N1 exists does NOT correlate with locations on the map where humans have caught it. Where humans have caught it is a tiny tiny subset of the places it exists. Coloring in whole countries that have had a major outbreak of highly pathogenic H5N1 in birds makes sense. Dots where humans have caught it does not make sense as it doesn't show the spread of H5N1, it only shows where people acted improperly around infected birds. WAS 4.250 21:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm aware that there is a difference between human and bird infections, but I would still say the image was misleading. Clearing up the caption could remedy it a bit (currently: Bird Flu Spread on October 26th, 2005). Many people (including me ;)) would take that as Bird Flu Spread in humans at first glance. -- Mystman666 (Talk) 11:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
By the way, Avain Flu has now come to England and was detected in some birds on a poultry farm in Suffolk on the 3rd February 2007.
The world map] highlightning countries that was removed from this article, is shown on the H5N1 article still. I agree with several comments made that it is too broad and can cause misconceptions. I have attempted an illustration on the spread in Thailand with this map. Something like this can be constructed for each country perhaps. I am not sure how you would display it on a global basis properly. Mceder 04:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I think something needs to be done with the first sentence of this article. It could be a paragraph; the information is bungled and confusing, the main point peppered with several parenthetical digressions. The information inside the parenthesis is necessary, but the way it is presented now makes the sentence itself loaded and difficult to follow.216.7.248.254 17:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
According to the map, Iraq has only has poultry cases of H5N1, but according to the chart, Iraq has had one human case. 24.91.9.206 23:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Do you know which country is Iraq on that map? Make sure you're looking at the right country.--Thegriffin 06:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
"Tens of millions of birds have died of H5N1 influenza and hundreds of millions of birds have been slaughtered and disposed of to limit the spread of H5N1. Countries that have reported one or more major H5N1 outbreaks in birds are (in order of first outbreak occurrence): Korea, Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, China, Malaysia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Turkey, Romania, Croatia, Ukraine, Cyprus, Iraq, Nigeria, Egypt, India. H5N1 has been found in birds in the wild in numerous other countries such as Austria, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iran, Italy, Kuwait, Slovenia. There have been, so far, no outbreaks in any non-bird species."
I am confused as of the basis for the two groups. Maybe to clarify a bit better criteria for countries with "a major outbreak" and the rest?
Major outbreak equal lots (like thousands to hundeds of millions of birds) dead from H5N1 or culling. A dead wild bird here or there is not in the same league. Egypt is in the middle, but since they only have known dead poultry who had to catch it from wild birds, undoubtedly there are many more dead birds in Egypt than the official count. It's a rough attempt to seperate major versus minor. WAS 4.250 23:09, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
"H5N1 in China and Hong Kong in this and later periods is less than fully reported. For example WHO records an H5N1 death in Hong Kong in 2003 but inconsistently. "An outbreak of atypical pneumonia occurred between November 2002 and February 2003 in Guandong province, China. Health authorities in China investigated the outbreak and identified Chlamydia pneumoniae as the causitive agent. The Ministry of Health in Beijing has informed WHO that the outbreak in Guandong is over and that there is no evidence of a link between the outbreak in Guandong and the H5N1 cases in Hong Kong SAR." [7] "
This part regarding the 2002/2003 case in China/Hong Kong is inaccurate. First, the victim was a boy returning to Hong Kong after visiting the Fujian province in mainland China, not the Guangdong province as suggested by the article. The quoted Guangdong cases were more likely referring to Sars, a new virus that was identified a few months later, not H5N1, so there is something mixed up in here. Finally, the claim that the case was not reported is not true either: it was reported by Hong Kong, which is a separate WHO member on her own.
I removed that part for these reason.
Reference http://www.who.int/csr/don/2003_07_04/en/
Influenza A(H5N1) in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of China – Update 2
27 February 2003
Disease Outbreak Reported
As of 27 February no further cases of human influenza A(H5N1) have been reported in Hong Kong SAR (see previous report). To date the current outbreak of influenza A(H5N1) in Hong Kong SAR has been limited to two cases, one of whom has died. Both cases were members of the same family who returned to their home in Hong Kong SAR on 8 February after travelling to Fujian province, China. The mother and children were in mainland China for 14 days; the father for 9 days.
The father of the family (a 33 year old man) developed respiratory symptoms on 7 February whilst in Fujian Province, China. He was admitted to hospital in Hong Kong SAR on 11 February with pneumonia but died on 17 February. Influenza A (H5N1) was isolated from post-mortum specimens on 20 February. The man´s 9 year old son also became unwell whilst in Fujian province. He was admitted to hospital in Hong Kong SAR on 12 February with pneumonia. Influenza A (H5N1) was isolated from two nasopharageal aspirates taken from the boy on 19 February. The boy is in a stable condition. Additional family members have also had respiratory symptoms. The boy’s 8 year old sister died on 4 February whilst the family was in Fujian Province, China. The cause of her death is under investigation. The mother has now recovered from what was thought to have been a parainfluenza infection.
An outbreak of atypical pneumonia occurred between November 2002 and February 2003 in Guandong province, China. Health authorities in China investigated the outbreak and identified Chlamydia pneumoniae as the causitive agent. The Ministry of Health in Beijing has informed WHO that the outbreak in Guandong is over and that there is no evidence of a link between the outbreak in Guandong and the H5N1 cases in Hong Kong SAR.
The Department of Health in Hong Kong SAR has intensified its surveillance for influenza among patients with influenza-like symptoms or atypical pneumonia. No unusual increase in influenza activity has been detected over the past few weeks.
WHO is continuing to work closely with health authorities in Beijing, China and Hong Kong SAR. Reagents for laboratory diagnosis of influenza A(H5N1) have been made available to the Ministry of Health in Beijing, the National Influenza Centres and to other members of the WHO Global Influenza Surveillance Network. [1] WAS 4.250 13:13, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
==> Is there a better place to discuss this?
==> Anyway, PLEASE READ http://www.who.int/csr/don/2003_07_04/en/, it is quite clear that the Guangdong cases are NOT H5N1 from this report, and the father and son case in Feb 2003 WAS reported. (BTW, The report you quoted was in Feb 2003. At that time the real cause of the Guangdong cases was still unknown).
Hi. You can talk on my talk page User talk:WAS 4.250 or you can talk via e-mail to someone who has listed his email (I haven't). Anything else you want me to read? WAS 4.250 14:01, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
(content of message on my talk page was:)
Hi,
Should we discuss here instead of messing up the main page?
The WHO July 2003 report I quoted actually included the same events that you quoted in the earlier Feb 2003 report. In summary, it says:
1) From Dec 2002 to Feb 2003. Some "Pneumonia cases" in Guangdong, China (i.e, the "suspicious" reports you quoted, that the Chinese claimed to be "not connected to the father and son H5N1 case in HK" and was "under control"). The Guangdong cases was identified a few months later to be Sars, NOT H5N1 (July Report)
2) The Feb 2003 (father and son) case: a family developed h5n1 in HK after visiting Fujian, China. It was reported to WHO (July Report). FYI: Fujian and Guangdong are different provinces in China
3) The Guandgong pneumonia later spread to HK, then to the rest of the world, which was then known as Sars. - See "July Report".
4) There is no "discrepancy" between the July and the Feb reports. Both described the father and son case as H5N1, PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY.
(BTW. I was in HK at that time. As I remember, there was some disagreement between HK and mainland China regarding the source of the Feb 20003 cases. (HK claimed the victim got it in mainland, mainland claimed that they got it after returning to HK.), but it was reported to WHO by HK nevertheless. (unsigned comment by User:Sorgwa)
H5N1 in China and Hong Kong in this and later periods is less than fully reported. Blogs have reported many discrepancies between official China government anouncements concerning H5N1 and what people in China see with their own eyes. Many reports of total H5N1 cases exclude China due to widespread disbelief in China's official numbers.
YOU WROTE>>>
WHO records an H5N1 death Hong Kong in 2003 but later omits it. WHO recorded on February 27, 2003 that: (Skipped) A later WHO report says: (Skipped) <<<
MY REPLY==>
There is nothing "omitted" from the later July 2003 WHO report. The next sentence following the one you quoted (event on 19 Feb) immediately suggested that the poor boy had H5N1. So you are either not reading carefully or quoting it out of context.
YOU WROTE
MY REPLY==>
What you are quoting here referred to a series of pneunonia cases in Guangdong, China betweeen Nov 2002 and Feb 2003. Please read the July 2003 WHO report again. This is a detailed event log about the Sars outbreak in 2003, but happens to mention the father and son h5n1 case in Feb that happens at approximately at the same time as well. The same set of events (that you quoted) were described in chronolical order but in much more detail. If you have read the whole July report , it should be clear that those Guangdong cases between Nov 2002 and Feb 2003 were in fact Sars, not h5n1. (See the events between between 16 Nov 2002 and 14 Feb 2003 in July report for detail).
Some background knowledge may help here. First: Sars was a type of atypical pneumonia. And before the name Sars was officially coined in April 2003, it was simply known as a "atypical pneumonia outbreak". The same term atypical pneumonia was used in the July report (e.g, the very first event logged on the "July report": the 16 November 2002 event).
Some local politcal knowledge may help: Hong Kong is still maintaining its own WHO membership even after it returns to China. So the cases in Hong Kong and China are counted and reported separately. From the July report, it was clear that the father and son case WAS reported to WHO, and there is nothing "omitted" from the July report (see event on Feb 19 2003 in the "July report") as you try to suggest.
Some local geography knowledge may also help. The father and son got the H5N1 after travelling to the Fujian province of China. And the "atypical pneumonia " you quoted was in Guangdong. Guangdong and Fujian are two different provinces (like two different states in the US). Check any world atlas for reference!
So, ironically, the Chinese claim at that time that "The Guangdong cases are not h5n1 and are not connected to the father and son case" was, in fact, correct. (although it wasn't much better either: Sars later turned out to be just as bad).
(I am sorry that I ended up editing your original format a little bit. I tried to quote it directly at first but to to no success. My apology)
Please identify why this was deleted. All it does is quote reputable sources to provide evidence for the preceding paragraph. Do you think the source is not reputable? do you think the quotes are inaccurate? Do you think the quotes are irrelevant to the preceding paragraph? WAS 4.250 19:17, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Be bold. If you have a bit of news backed up with evidence, feel free to edit the page. :) Info added. -Peter 18:00, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
I think the length of this article is of little consequence at the moment (as it is covering a current event), but we will want to make up some plans on how we will be able to shorten up the article in the future. Making the article usable to people will have to come in the future, and planning about it now will make the transition later much easier. Thoughts? Obviously, this should not draw away from the more immediate concern of gathering the information. -Peter 18:00, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
I disagree that it is possible to make plans for the future of an article with contents whose importance can only be determined in hindsight. Imagine a future where there is no avian flu pandemic - a lot of the detail here will be summarized and the article will simply be the global spread of H5N1 through the bird population and our poultry farming industry article will take up where this article leaves off. Imagine instead that H5N1 spreads throughout the world in migratory birds for the next six months, then in Africa it mutates into a pandemic virus while changing its H protein becoming H7N1. H5N1 continues killing migratory birds, the poultry industry is forever changed by the constant threat from wild birds, and our H7N1 article splits into a dozen articles covering all aspects of the ongoing H7N1 pandemic. Make plans? Impossible. Let's just keep up. WAS 4.250 03:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I see your point. Predicting a disease is possible, for sure. As long as everyone realizes that editing WILL be necessary in the future, I think that it can be left at that. -Peter 04:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
The fourth paragraph is cluttered, I suggest either adding a section with the list, or creating a page entitles List of countries with H5N1. Zreeon 23:30, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Right, but do you really want to see a list of 243 countries? I realise that the list didn't start out cluttered, but that is why I am suggesting this change. Zreeon 00:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I figure once it reaches at least one country in north and one country in south america, it is global and the list is of historic interest only; so it stops getting top billing;and the list of countries with wild birds only (no major outbreaks or humans dead) gets deleted altogether. What do you think? WAS 4.250 00:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I see that it was updated to include Fife. The map should be updated, too. Keep watching Scotland: two swans have died in a park in Glasgow, possibly from "a virus".
I have a lot of trouble understanding why people are using mortality rates of 1-5% in their projections, when the actual human mortality rates have been in the neighborhood of 50% and higher. If half of us get sick, and half of those die, we lose a quarter of the world's population... Is there a reason why the projected total mortality is so much lower? Is there any basis for expecting that the human mortality rate will drop by 1-2 orders of magnitude in a pandemic? Waitak 05:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I draw your atention to what I said:
And I draw your attention to H5N1 impact which says: we remain unsure about Tamiflu's real effectiveness. [...] we cannot by any means count on a potential vaccine [...] local response will be more important than national or international response, as every community will have its own resources swamped dealing with its own problems. [...] Self help groups have organized [...] local groups will not be able to rely on the armed forces, widespread infection could occur in days not months, an effective vaccine can not be counted on, and the huge death toll could swamp mortuaries WAS 4.250
Lastly, I draw your attention to Influenza pandemic. Read it. All of it. Twice. WAS 4.250 03:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Now you made me do it. I added:
File:H5N1SpreadChart.png
I've just made this image with a chart of cases reflecting the WHO data. I'm hesitant to include it in such a public page without running it past the people who are maintaining it. Please feel free to include it if you think it's appropriate. Waitak 08:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I need an opinion. I've done another version of the case spread graph, with exponential regression added. It makes quite a compelling story, in my opinion, but it is a little more cluttered. Which one does the community prefer? The one that's there now, or the one below?
Waitak 12:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
To the right of the table of contents I see "Cumulate Human Cases of and Deaths from H5N1 As of May 5, 2006 Source WHO Confirmed Human Cases of H5N1". I see no graph at all. WAS 4.250 14:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Template:H5N1 Human Mortality is now available, if you think it's worth adding to Global spread of H5N1. Looks like this:
Source WHO Confirmed Human Cases of H5N1 |
Waitak 03:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I put it at Transmission and infection of H5N1. It really oughta be moved to the right. And the section it is in (that was just edited) re-edited. Any volunteers? WAS 4.250 04:13, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Please click on the articles in the H5N1 and Flu templates. WAS 4.250 14:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
How much of a difference is there between this and sars? is there a way to see it on microscope? - unsigned
moved to Talk:Reporting disease cases
On the Michigan government's website there is a mention of a low pathogenic variety found in some swans. You can reach it here. Should I post it? JBogdan 13:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Been brought up previously. But not fully discussed.
If this article is only about highly pathogenic H5N1 it should say so in the title. (Otherwise low pathogenic cases are perfectly valid for inclusion, albeit possibly in a special section)
"Global" is a misleading term. The spread has not yet gone "global" as in "worldwide", which is probably the most common usage. The word appears to be using the term "global" to mean "across the globe". There are other uses of the term, eg. "holistic", . A clear term to use would be "geographic" (as suggested above) which would explain what this article is about.
"Spread" is an appropriate word to use. It's epidemiologically relevant.
This leads to my preferred pedantic "let's-be-clear-what-we-are-talking-about" title:
or less preferred:
Discuss--ZayZayEM (talk) 00:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Cat flu simptoms most commonly include-
--86.25.53.147 (talk) 11:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
The statement below is untrue: "As of the July 25, 2008 FAO Avian Influenza Disease Emergency Situation Update, H5N1 pathogenicity is continuing to gradually rise in wild birds in endemic areas but the avian influenza disease situation in farmed birds is being held in check by vaccination."
The update does not mention wild birds specifically, but instead says that: "HPAI H5N1 pathogenicity (including clades 2.3.2 and 2.3.4 circulating in the Red River basin and presumably imported from China, as well as the clade 1 virus that has prevailed in the Mekong delta since early 2004) seems to be rising gradually."
Note that the report mentions that no new cases of HPAI H5N1 had been found in wild birds by the time of the report, i.e in any case it would have been impossible to determine how the pathogenicity is developing in wild birds.Uad473 (talk) 21:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Per section header - I would change it myself but I realize there are many editors here, and don't want to make such a big change without consensus. -- Scray (talk) 04:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Secret Weapons Program/ Iran: http://thepropheticlight.com/blog/?page_id=975 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.240.63 (talk) 16:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Inasmuch as it's mostly timeline, should this article be renamed H5N1 Timeline or Timeline of H5N1 Global Spread or some such? kencf0618 (talk) 13:39, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
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