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This article has little bearing on the genre as it now stands. "High fantasy" is now treated as meaning "contains a lot of magic". Conversely, publishers and readers clearly refer to "epic fantasy" as a subgenre within fantasy, but Wikipedia does not have a distinct second for this, but instead, merely redirects requests for "epic fantasy" to this page.
The result is that while the real world of publishers, agents, editors, booksellers, and readers, clearly recognise the subgenre "epic fantasy", Wikipedia clearly does not. Which clearly puts Wikipedia in the wrong.
Additionally, note that "low fantasy" these days refers to fantasy stories with little magic in it. For reference, see "Joe Abercomrbie", who is commonly referred to - within the industry - as the UK's best selling epic fantasy author, and low-fantasy author (his most recent novels have no significant mangic in them). However, Wikipedia does not recognise the distinction.
Frankly, someone needs to come in and clear up the fantasy genre definitions on Wikipedia, because they are severely selective in promoting a minority point of view which is not reflected by the market sensibilities of the industry.
I would write them myself, but past experience shows that they will be deleted, because someone preferred the original version.
should we seperate high fantasy from heroic fantasy ? Imran 00:04, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
i dont think Christopher Paolini's Inheritance trilogy is high fantasy, the first book ain't more than sword and sorcery. camara
why is george rr martin on both the high fantasy and low fantasy pages as an example?
perhaps because it's possible to write books in two different genres? -Norph
The A song of Ice and Fire cycle of novels have several features which makes it acceptable to think of it as both high fantasy and low fantasy. It is high fantasy because it focuses on nobility, it deals with epic themes and has a larger-than-life scope. But there are equally valid reasons to call it low fantasy: The amount of magic is far less than in the majority of high fantasy novels(this is the most important reason). Characters are not "protected" by fate, as they are in, say, the Wheel of Time cycle. And also, the feudal system is not glorified. This is why I wrote on the low fantasy page that A Song of Ice and Fire belongs to the high fantasy GENRE, but often is categorized as low fantasy. sindreman
I realise your ambition, but please consider that 20 titles are enough. Please stop putting any more books or authors' exemples, because I will subsequently delete them. Please be so kind and do not this anymore. 20 books and authors, are completely enough for such an article. Thank you for your attention: Painbearer 23:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Since my edit was reverted on the grounds that "twenty books was enough", I produced a new one. Obviously, it is more important to put the really major works at a higher priority, but the question is, which ones are they, and whose opinion determines? But I think it's clearly idiotic to leave E. R. Eddison off, and insist that D&D books such as Salvatore and Dragonlance go on. An an article just on gaming inspired fantasy would be nice, actually. I suggest if someone wants to both insist that the list be kept to twenty books {\it and} that they determine which books, they are not being reasonable. If someone wants to insist that the list be limited to twenty books, but doesn't like my present suggestions, that would be reasonalbe. But if someone decides to boot one selection in order to return The Sword of Terrible Writing to the list, they should justify it here. Gene Ward Smith 03:41, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be useful to categorize works of fantasy by the period they were written? Eddison has a special role because he was an early author of fantasy, influencing later authors. Roleplaying or other game influenced fantasy could be a special category, too.
I've reworded this section. Perhaps some sections of the original text were not written by a native English-speaker? I tried to clarify the meaning of some of the sentences.
The opening sentence remains somewhat vague, in my opinion. It states "Role-playing campaign settings like Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance [1] are an excellent basis for many fantasy books and many authors continue to contribute to the settings." I think this could be clarified somewhat.
Does the sentence mean that the settings in the books are a basis for many fantasy books? That would seem like putting the cart before the horse. Or does it mean that, once written, the settings provide a basis for many additional books in that series? I would imagine it's the latter. If the original author would care to clarify, please do so. If not, I may change the sentence structure to more clearly convey the latter interpretation.--Dunedan 05:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be a topic concerning criticism of High Fantasy. All those "Tales of the Forgotten Magic Dragonlords of Darkness" books (usually trilogies) are widely considered as pulp fiction. Here's a good aritcle about it: http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/gulliver.htm
Matter of opinion, that. Changed to 'common' basis instead.
There is no indication in the article about when high fantasy as a genre started. At the very least, someone needs to track down when the term "high fantasy" was FIRST used, as that would at least give some context to all this. Personally, I would date the start of high fantasy as a recognisable subgenre to the 1950s (when Lewis and Tolkien were publishing), and the explosion in imitations of this style to the 1960s - but I am just guessing here, really. Some sourced statements would be nice. Carcharoth 15:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The image currently in the Genre Overview section really should have some sort of caption. I would give it one, except I have no idea what its supposed to be an image of, exactly, or where the image is originally from. Unless someone can give this image a good caption, I think we should replace the picture with a different one. - Runch 19:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Is Siegfried killing Fafnir really appropriate? That is arguably legend, not fantasy. Solri (talk) 12:32, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
The article says:
'In some fiction, a contemporary, "real-world" character is placed in the invented world, sometimes through devices such as portals to other worlds or even subconscious travels. Purists might not consider this to be "true" high fantasy, although such stories are often categorized as high fantasy due to the fact that they've yet to be classified as their own distinct subgenre, and often resemble this subgenre more closely than any other'
I'm nigh on certain I've seen this named in more than one place as a 'secret garden' fantasy, or something very similiar, but the search is swamped on google by the novel. Anyone else heard anything like this, maybe with a source? I will have a look through some of my books on fantasy and see if I can find anything. --KharBevNor 01:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Is this author a good example? Me, I would think The Tough Guide to Fantasyland would be a better cite of the satirical attacks on this genre. Goldfritha 03:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
This is pretty bad, clearly written by several editors putting in their own two cents:
"While it is far from being the oldest fantasy subgenre"
Does anyone have any references to the relative ages of the subgenres? Goldfritha 04:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
The problem is that when we go further back in history, it is harder to apply the subgenres we are familiar with or even to say what is or is not fantasy. Some people count Beowulf as the oldest fantasy (thus making low fantasy the oldest subgenre) but I would not count it as fantasy at all, since the orginators of the story (and probably the author of the poem) probably thought that Beowulf was a real person and Grendel was a real monster, thus making it legend rather than fantasy. However, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, while classed as a romance, can also be seen as one of the earliest fantasies (again low fantasy) since it is unlikely that the author believed (or intended his audience to believe) that Bercilak really picked up his severed head. Elizabethan fantasy, such as The Faerie Queene or A Midsummer Night's Dream, tends to be low fantasy too. On the other hand, if you discount romance, fable, epic poetry etc., then the earliest fantasy in the strict sense is high fantasy (Ruskin, MacDonald, Morris). Solri (talk) 09:10, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
I deleted the following paragraph from the end of "genre fantasy" because it injected too much p.o.v. into the article, although the criticisms are certainly common. Maybe there's a better way to make this point? "Recycling of ideas sometimes makes high fantasy dull or repetitive. Many of the novels are strongly influenced by Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, which is considered the groundwork of the genre. Others lift generously from real-life myths and legends, which can also result in a very familiar feel." Chris Hall 14:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I changed the D&D example from Forgotten Realms to Greyhawk. This is the standard D&D Setting and follows the high fantasy concept more strictly than the Forgotten Realms. They are much more oriented towards magic users, not in a mentorway but as main characters. The Forgotten Realms are the most popular example, but not the best for high fantasy. --Sturmwolf 16:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I added Lyra Belacqua to the list of heroes, since I felt that this was a boy's club from reading the article. Except for two authors and two sources, all the characters and authors are male. Other possibilities would be Beagle's Amalthea, Hodgell's Jame, Lackey's Talia, McKinley's Aerin, or Moon's Paksenarrion. Actually, most of the examples cited on the page are strongly sword and sorcery (with maybe the exception of Tad Williams, which I read long ago.) There seem to be many other examples on the list of high fantasy fiction which are not S&S. Kvon 02:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)kvon
I am inclined too agree with you on the count that female protagonists are a highly undeveloped aspect of fantasy and need better recognition. But scince the begining of human kind, men (like myself) have devloped a tendancy to be very teritorial when it comes to including women in fine arts (like writing). Altho this tendancy was eraticated as womens writes came along men are still in preference to male protagonists as this reassures us of our (subconcious) dominace. Please forgive us when we display are preferance to "Boys clubs" as this is a display of our (subconcious) dominace. Please forgive me if this addition in any way seems sexist belive me I didnt intend it to be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swissblade13 (talk • contribs) 01:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
High fantasy as a genre that we recognise today has its roots in British/Northern European myths. Indeed the majority of "High fantasy" output today is still centered on fictional Nordic/European Medieval universes. Is it worth mentioning this? At the moment readers are not given much of an impression of the clear cultural influences on the genre. I know there are exceptions, which should be noted, such as oriental influences, but at the moment readers are not told much of the "feel" of High fantasy 16 August 2007
What does that image show? It looks like some piece of impressionist art. Surely there's something more relevant, like something related to a high fantasy book or film. Thanks, George D. Watson (Dendodge).TalkHelp and assistance 00:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually Tolkien explicitly said that his stories were set in the past of our world. To be true, this was essential to his conception, because one of the inspiration for his works was to provide a genuine anglo-saxon mitology (beside creating "speakers" for his imaginary languages). So, saying that a feature of high-fantasy is to be set in parallels or invented worlds is plainly wrong just for the most prominent writer cited. [excuse me for poor english] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.100.146.29 (talk) 16:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
NOPE. >> Yes, the story of King Arthur was written with the intention to "convince us" that it was a real happening, BUT, this is another genre of fairy tale, its ishistorical fantasy.--189.102.230.12 (talk) 22:43, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Paolini was not involved in the beginning of high fantasy in the 1950s, so it doesn't really make any sense to add him to the intro paragraph where it talks about High fantasy coming to fruition under Lewis and Tolkein. I've reverted that change. Psychobunny2412 (talk) 20:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
"...one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy." So what's the other? Low fantasy? Clarityfiend (talk) 17:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think Peter Pettigrew makes a good example of Lord Voldemort's very loyal servants. He is mostly driven by his cowardice. A good example, IMHO, would be Bellatrix Lestrange. Any ideas? Hom sepanta (talk) 13:45, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't even know why voldemort is mentioned at this article since harry potter is not high fantasy, it is contemporary fantasy, we should take that out of the article (I know it is a cliche dark lord but it just does not fit the genre) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.173.147.73 (talk) 03:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I must side with Hom & the rest on. Harry Potter while a good modern work of Fantasy is not really high fantasy. If we clamed that it was then Artemis Fowl would also mbe mentioned with the Lord of the RingsApplechair (talk) 07:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
In the genre overview it states that "The secondary world of high fantasy exists, or may be entered, in three different forms" and in the first form "where the primary world does not exist". His Dark Materials is listed here. However in the series, one of the main characters goes from her fantasy word (secondary world) to the primary world (or seems to be from what we see) then leaves again. This means that although the character goes through a portal as in the third form it is the reverse going from the secondary to the primary then back again. As such would this merit A) a fourth form B) a rewording of the third form or C) just leaving the series out all together?
Sorry if my wording is confusing. :)
92.10.202.25 (talk) 17:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree. His Dark Materials is so hard to pin down that it would be confusing to include it in a list of typical examples. Although it's classed as fantasy, it is close to being science fiction.Solri (talk) 08:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
While it's not clear from Lord of the Rings and Hobbit, that Arda is actually "Earth". Actually if you go into some of ther writings of Tolkien such as comments in his letters, and the HoME series one finds out that Arda is actually earth. In Tolkien's vision, Middle-Earth represents distant ages in Earth's past.
One example is in Letters 169 (P. 124), in which Tolkien discusses that he devised the geography of Middle-Earth dramatically rather than geologically or paleontologically. He mentions that he sometimes wished that he had some how incorporated some of the ideas with the ideas from geologists, but knows that it would have only caused more trouble with human history.
Furthermore in Letters 211, he discusses that Arda (meaning 'realm') is the name given to our world, since it would be the seat and special domain of the King, because the Children of God would appear there. He also goes onto say that if his stories were history, it would be difficult to place the locations, but that Middle Earth is more or less in the location of modern Europe, with the Shire expressly stated to be in that region. He mentions he could have tried to tie things into known history even more but feels that the time gap between the Fall of Barad-dur and his present to allow for his history to fit into our own. He states specifically that he "...constructed an imaginary time, but kept my feet on my own mother-earth for place." He places his present in what he calls the end of the Fifth Age (pg 283), and that the events of LOTRO occured about 6000 years before, though the present might be near the end of the Sixth Age or Seventh.
He mentions that many of his reviewers thought that Middle Earth was on another planet, but that that was never his intent.
If i'm understanding the wiki article correctly then it wouldn't fit into the idea of being in a "secondary world" with the primary world in non-existence, but rather he viewed Middle Earth being in the past of the primary world. Granted that would sort of tie it into one of the definitions of "Low Fantasy" which places the story in the "primary world" with elements of magic added. But Tolkien's works really can't be definied by either definitions. 76.232.176.26 (talk) 21:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
No, it can't. Three of the 216 pages from the Gamble & Yates book are available through Google Books. 96.35.172.222 (talk) 14:47, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
This issue keeps coming up, so I thought I'd point out a few things. First, the genre of Tolkien's works is decided by their content, not his intentions. If LOTR is high fantasy without Tolkien's letters then it's high fantasy, because his letters aren't part of the world portrayed in the books. That said, there are references in the books from time to time to Arda being Earth (mainly in The Hobbit; back then there were hobbits but today it's too loud, goblins invented explosives, etc.). This brings us to second, what Tolkien said and the reality of his works, even his intentions, are pretty different. The man clearly didn't believe that the events depicted in his works actually occurred, and he wrote LOTR partly as a response to his experience of so much meaningless horror in the Great War. Tolkien was using LOTR to rewrite the world as a place where there was such a thing as clear good and evil and where Alfred Nobel didn't have to feel guilty because only a goblin would invent something as cruel as dynamite. Tolkien was well aware that Geoffrey of Monmouth, Vergil, Homer, etc. did not believe the things they wrote were historical, and he's doing the same thing they did. He's invented a fantasy earth where things are the same today but weren't then because the idea that world wars are just another chapter in a cyclical fight between good and evil, that somehow 1,000,000 men dead at the Somme means something, is a therapeutic fantasy.Pwoodfor (talk) 21:55, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
While it indeed follows the general storyline for high fantasy, I think you'd need a cite to establish it as belonging to that genre. It's normally regarded as space opera science fiction.
I was going to cut all references to it, but maybe that's best left to a regular editor, if there's agreement. 192.91.147.34 (talk) 02:51, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
One question... What subgenre is Peter Pan? Is it not high fantasy?? :O —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.102.230.12 (talk) 06:12, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
I have altered a phrasing claiming that there are three ways to enter a secondary world (clearly too restrictive) and removed the incorrect example of Thomas Covenant. Notably, the latter moves by losing consciousness and there is some room for interpretation whether his adventures really do happen. Similarly, Narnia (at least in some books) could be interpreted as children playing. Similarly, Stephen King's The Talisman could be a case of alcohol abuse.
Other possibilities include transportation by means of e.g. a spell rather than a portal (IIRC, Kay's Tapestry of Fionavar and Dickson's The Dragon Knight---which is on the border line between alternate reality-time travel). Other possibilities yet could likely be found on closer investigation. 88.77.180.185 (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I can't shake off the feeling that the numbered list in the genre overview clashes rather a bit headlong with the definition of the genre. The issue is later adressed in the "Settings" section, but rather inelegantly, and I'd say the problem still remains. As far as the traditional definition of High Fantasy is concerned, it just seems wrong to try and extend it to include works like Harry Potter and Percy Jackson. They are rather unambiguously defined -- though not explicitly -- as "low fantasy" just a few lines above. As a fan of High Fantasy (i.e. Secondary World fantasy), I can't help cringing to find the definition made to fit those books, even though I quite like them. Trigaranus (talk) 11:19, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
I, as an avid reader of Tolkien, (and fan of harry potter) would also never talk about HP as High Fantasy, she gives some dates for her world of the past, but mostly she uses the real world as the setting for her own places, it's just not anyway near high fantasy, they are good books, but definitely not high fantasy, if harry potter is high fantasy, than conan the barbarian should be too, at least he has his own world with history and all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.35.82.191 (talk) 20:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
High/low fantasy isn't great fantasy vs. ok fantasy, it's fundamentally fantastical world vs. fantastical events/premise. This has nothing to do with whether Conan or H.P. is as good as Tolkien. Conan and LOTR are set in worlds that are, at best, loosely based on the real world; Potter is set in the real world, positing that there is such a thing as magic and we all just don't know about it.Pwoodfor (talk) 22:02, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Currently classified under type one "primary world does not exist" but in fact its type two or three if anyone has finished it. Shouldnt it be changed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.197.216.86 (talk) 08:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
There doesn#t seem to happen anything here, but as mentioned above Frodo is no young hero archetype. so i remove him, it can be discussed, but by the definiton of tolkiens work he was not a young boy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.35.82.191 (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
I think it should be clear, that Nikki Gamble actually only defines three characteristics for "high fantasy". Anything more or less would be outside her definition (and 'original research'). Lord of the Rings doesn't really fit into the box she created. If anyone knows any other reference works in which someone defines additional definitions for "high fantasy" they should be included. But we should avoid original research.76.232.176.26 (talk) 20:59, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Frodo is put into the category of immature heroes, but he is fifty years old when he starts his quest. Although this is younger in hobbit terms than it would be in human terms, he is still older than the typical youthful hero (hobbits come of age at thirty-three and live to be a hundred or so, so a fifty-year-old hobbit would be equivalent to a human in their late thirties, I think). Solri (talk) 09:19, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Agemegos (talk) 06:52, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
The definition of High Fantasy given by wikipedia seems to not match up with the definition held by pretty much everyone else, but the cited sources. If I were to ask a fantasy fan what high fantasy is, most would say that high fantasy works tend towards functional magic, black and white morality, and non-human races. Low fantasy is the opposite—really alternative medieval history. This definition seems far more consistent with the things that are being called high fantasy here. Now I'm sure the wikipedia editors like that they have citations for the definitions listed here, but I don't think many people would every give those definitions. It sounds like the authors of this article went with a source they could cite, and that led them away from reality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snookumz (talk • contribs) 17:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi there!
I'm used the article for a quick reference working on my paper and then decided to look further into what Gamble and Yates are said to argue. I just realized that the page numbers are wrong in the footnote. it must be pages 120-122 (that's the pages on Low Fantasy and High Fantasy) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.5.64.141 (talk) 15:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
So, what is the differences between High Fantasy and Heroic Fantasy? The descriptions from the wikipedia entries are pretty much the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.12.95.69 (talk) 00:48, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Given the arguments about whether such-and-such a book is high fantasy and the different ways of defining "high fantasy", I would suggest replacing the current introduction with something like this ...
High fantasy is a sub-genre of fantasy fiction, defined either by its taking place in an imaginary world distinct from our own or by the epic stature of its characters, themes and plot. Quintessential works of high fantasy, such as The Lord of the Rings or The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, have both of these attributes. Accordingly, works where the fantasy world impinges on our world, or where the characters are concerned only with adventure or personal goals (as in sword and sorcery fiction) are less likely to be classed as high fantasy.
Any suggestions for improvement? --Solri (talk) 12:31, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I am concerned that this section -- especially the second and third paragraphs, are (almost) entirely unsourced in defining the typical/common characteristics of the high fantasy genre. The first paragraph has a lot of references to examples of what the writer means, which is nice, but no citations of critical analysis that support the contents of the section. The whole section seems to be some mixture of original research and uncited generalizations, and needs attention. I am not an aficionado nor scholar of the genre, but surely there must be some books, columns or articles by known writers or editors out there that offer some documentation of typical characters in high fantasy. I mean, from what I can tell, debates over proper categorization of stories are a commonplace; so some writers or editors somewhere have weighed in to try to clear things up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimmyb10 (talk • contribs) 03:44, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
The definition of "High Fantasy" here seems to ignore and in some ways somewhat contradicts Ursula McGuin's important essay "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie", in which she seems to argue that the distinguishing features of "high fantasy" include the dependence of the story on the fantastic elements - if the novel _could be_ set in the mundane world, then it's not high fantasy whether its nominal setting has "high fantasy" characteristics at all. I'm not sure how best to address this, so I'm bringing it to the community's attention here.
-- Resuna (talk) 19:17, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
In the genre overview, the article currently states that The Lord of the Rings and The Wheel of Time take place in a setting where "the primary world does not exist."
The two series are supposed to be set in the primary world, but in the distant past (in the case of LOTR) and the distant future (in the case of Wheel of Time). WoT's futuristic setting is easily noticed by contemporary references spread throughout the series. (The books refer to their setting as the "Third Age," with the Age of Legends sitting between it and the present.) Tolkien specifically stated that Middle Earth supposedly existed ~6,000 years ago, and that the Shire would be roughly in the same latitude as Oxford.
Redwall hp (talk) 22:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
This entire thing is completely nonsense. "High fantasy" refers to a setting in which only the elite have magic/power. "Low fantasy" refers to a setting where everyone has magic/power. Middle fantasy, obviously, is where it falls in between. Allow me to explain why the current asinine definition is worthless.
Consider Xanth. Xanth is unabashedly based on Florida, and is a world where everybody has magical abilities. By both the correct and the stupid definitions, this is low fantasy. But there is absolutely no reason why this needs to be the case. Xanth could just as easily have been based in a theoretical world that happens to have a large peninsula, and there would be no difference at all in the stories. By the stupid definition, this would mysteriously become high fantasy, a distinction which therefore would be absolutely worthless.
Similarly, consider the Lord of the Rings, which is often considered the epitome of high fantasy. Unfortunately, Middle Earth is England. (Valinor is the Isle of Wight.) Stupid people might never have realized that, but no proper Englishman would write about anything else. So by this #^#!@*%#*^# definition, LotR is low fantasy, while by the proper definition, it is high fantasy. Again, arbitrarily changing this setting in insignificant ways would change the distinction. In what fucking way does that make any sense?
Now consider fantasy role playing. If you have a gaming session, and you say, "This is high fantasy" it should tell your player that magic is rare and special, and they shouldn't expect to find magic items in every dungeon and village they encounter. Likewise, if you specify that it is low fantasy, they know that magic is easy to find, and they shouldn't be surprised if the random farmhand they encounter has some magical ability. This is a useful thing to understand, and has a consistent and meaningful definition across settings.
I hope you will all consider this, and pull your collective heads out of your asses.
The OP used the word retarded as an insult. This shows a lack of class and intelligence by the poster and needs to be discouraged.
It should also be pointed out that the article's first paragraph claims that High fantasy and epic fantasy are extremely similar, yet but this makes no sense using the article's own definitions of the fantasy subgenres. It'd be insulting to say that this article is mess, so I won't do that, but it certainly is not self consistent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.250.40.182 (talk) 00:37, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the Discworld is really an example of a setting in which the primary world does not exist. In "The Colour Of Magic" Rincewind & Twoflower do briefly swap places with characters in the primary world. They go from riding a dragon to being passengers on a TWA aircraft. Tindwcel (talk) 11:21, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
The first paragraph says that epic fantasy is different than high fantasy, but yet epic fantasy redirects to high fantasy. If they are different then they shouldn't all be under one topic. The wiki-hive mind needs to make up it's mind here.
I would edit it if I knew the topic better. I feel I need to leave that to the experts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.250.40.182 (talk) 00:39, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
recent edit "added homestuck to the list of quintessential high fantasies". While it might have the features of high fantasy can it really be called an example of quintessential high fantasy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.213.167.180 (talk) 11:51, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
The usage of Epic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is under discussion, see talk:epic poetry -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 05:54, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
If it is then it should be added somewhere in this article. I believe Hyboria is the fictional world he resides in.2602:306:36A6:C919:686C:B6B0:3BD2:5D4F (talk) 05:16, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
There is no absolutely no need in including this definition of Nikki Gamble, I googled her and I couldn't find any kind of references to her so-called defintions of high fantasy. High fantasy is just high fantasy no matter how many worlds are involved into it. Harry Potter for exemple is not high fantasy, it is urban fantasy. I am qualified librarian, @Dl2000: and the last thing I think need is someone to give me lectures how to use my edits like I am some diletant novice beginner. There is absolutely no need in this section, it isn't even referenced that well, so please spare me the spasmalgons, for section that is virtually useless and have no good referencal point in it and is essayish like the top template suggests and the article just doesn't need it the last 2 years here. The article seems well covered, but no need for it. I was called by @Taeyebaar: as a qualified editor and librarian in order to help so please stand aside so I can finish my job.
@Dl2000:Let him add them, I will edit them appropriately if he makes any mistakes, but let him add them first. @Mad Hatter: go ahead and add them. I have told user:Dl2000 to leave it for now. If you make any mistakes, I will correct them later as I did on Space opera and Military science fiction. --Taeyebaar (talk) 23:18, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I think when future Harry Potter books/films are made that are set only in the magical world should be listed here and introduced in their articles as high-fantasy films.--Taeyebaar (talk) 22:41, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't think it should be considered High Fantasy, besides it has many elements taken from high fantasy novels, it's clearly designed to be an historical novel set in a fantasy world, that to me excludes this saga from the High Fantasy definition
Alphac (talk) 14:37, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
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Please delete the examples box. This is unnecessary and redundant with the List of high fantasy fiction and the related redundant lists currently in WP:Articles for deletion/List of high fantasy works AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Much as I enjoyed Stephen Donaldson's books and agree that they are high fantasy, I don't think they are significant enough to be one of only three examples given - Donaldson is nowhere near as well-known or influential as William Morriss or J.R.R. Tolkien. If I were to add a third example, it would be an author with a literary stature close to Tolkien (e.g., Ursula LeGuin) or approaching him in popularity (e.g., G.R.R. Martin), but that would only start arguments, so I think we should leave it at two examples. Citing the (allegedly) earliest example of modern fantasy and the most representative case is enough. Pengliujian (talk) 08:25, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
At the risk of re-opening the Gamble can of worms, the first paragraph of the "Characteristics" section belongs in the introduction because it's about a definition of the genre, not typical features. It's high time we followed the example of the Low fantasy article and just admit that there are two definitions that overlap but often contradict each other. Personally I wish Gamble had used a different word to describe secondary world fantasy, but "high fantasy" has stuck, and we're stuck with it. Pengliujian (talk) 09:28, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
I would like to include examples of high fantast video games such as The Elder Scrolls series, which I believe contains many characteristics and themes of high fantasy, such as taking place in a completely different world (Nern) with a completely different history to our own world. The Elder Scrolls series seems to match the characteristics described in the article, and therefore I believe it should be included in the article. Keyboards123 (talk) 17:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Aren't these novels high fantasy as well? If we're talking about famous examples in the second section, this series should be included.PNSMurthy (talk) 01:34, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
The lead sentence of the "Characteristics" section, if taken seriously, would lead the reader to conclude that Tolkien's "Middle Earth" represents low fantasy and Leiber's Nehwon carries the banner for high fantasy. It is therefore not fit for purpose - surely we can use sources other than Stableford, ones that say more sensible things. Newimpartial (talk) 14:37, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
The only source for this assertion is a blog that seems unreliable. I think this is OR. The other sources in the article don't conflate the two terms. Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 06:37, 13 December 2022 (UTC)