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This article was nominated for deletion on 27 May 2018. The result of the discussion was keep. |
The external links are broken. Could someone please fix them? Thank you. --Dr. Nellie Deutsch 05:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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I'll translate the German part of the text very soon (today).--Jeanpol 06:54, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
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Of course my English is a pity, but I'm improving it every day!;-))) Who corrected my English-mistakes in the LbT-Text? Anyway: thank your very much!--Jeanpol 05:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
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--Jeanpol 04:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC) OK: I found the point "Cleanup - The article's sections aren't very well organized"
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--Jeanpol 04:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Don't you think the more ("relevant," of course,) information you give in an encyclopedia, the better ?
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Hi Jean-pol,
In Sudbury Schools the focus lies on getting an education. Learning is one of the goals of education: the intellectual goal.
There are many ways of learning, but as said before, "learning is a process you do, not a process that is done to you! That is true of everyone. It's basic."
So you can learn from books, or from a computer program, or from experience, or from somebody that guides you and explains you, or from being an apprentice, or from learning by teaching, or by watching someone else, or on your own,...for example.
In Sudbury Schools the focus lies on getting an education, not on mixing different ages. Age mixing in Sudbury Schools is just one of the important components of the school's environment that supports and enhances learning.
I invite you "to see" what is The Sudbury Valley School.
By the way, the vast majority of us wants other people to get acquainted with what we do and/or with what we believe in, and many of us wish to be accepted for what we do and/or for what we believe in. If that is advertising -- so be it.
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The way I understand it, learning by teaching primarily benefits the student-instructor, who has to acquire sufficient knowledge of the target subject in order to address the concerns of his/her peers. Is this the professional view of LdL? — Nahum Reduta [talk|contribs] 10:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
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An unknown vandal (84.152.24.95) elected to remove a small but valid addition that relates the established work of Russian psychologist and researcher, Lev Vygotsky, to Learning by Teaching. His work THOUGHT AND LANGUAGE established the profound and direct connection between language, oral language, speeh in particular, and cognition. Thus Vygotsky laid the basis for the connection of learning (cognition) by teaching (speech). I am therefore, putting the text back. Frankatca (talk) 01:38, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
I am confused how Learning by teaching is related to the Monitorial System, it would be helpful if that was mentioned in the article. Jooojay (talk) 20:52, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
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Copy from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard
This article has not crossed my radar until now. I would like some opinions on this. The company seems notable but the main poster is the creator and main subject itself. I have tagged the article with COI and warned the user. The editor, Dr. Jean-Pol Martin, has also written an autobiography (Jean-Pol Martin) and has used two accounts User:Jeanpol and User:Jeanpol~enwiki. The accounts and the articles have been in WP for a long time, therefore I did not nominate for deletion, but came here instead to get some eyes and opinions on the issue, as it is outside of the subjects I normally work on. This seems to me a clear conflict of interest, socking, and advertising. Can some experienced eyes take a look and decide what to do/take it from here? -- Alexf(talk) 10:43, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Dear Alexf, my English is very poor, but I try to explain my situation: at the begining of the 80s I developed a teaching method called "Lernen durch Lehren" in Germany. Step by step, as a scholar, I founded the theoretical basis of it and could spread within 30 years the method in Germany, so today the method is wide mentioned in the spezific education-books and articles. As Wikipedia emerged, a lot of people tryed to write an article about "Lernen durch Lehren" but soon I had to cooperate. Of course it war very difficult for me because of COI. The admins intervened again and again (some wanted to delete it) but they find out, that my contributions were objective and not advertising. A colleague from me translated the German article in English and I edited in English too, but diverse people corrected the language and completed the contents or transform them. The name from "Lernen durch Lehren" in English ist "Learning by teaching". Two days ago, I tried to link the newest article from me, because it is crucial: "Learning by teaching: conceptualization as a source of happiness". So your attention was fixed. This new article is necessary in order to maitain the Wikipedia-artical up-to-date. It is not advertising. In fact, I don't need advertising. Please inform you about the topic "Learning by teaching", you will see, that the article is objective. They are facts. I have looked at your User-page and I see, that you are very experimented. So I hope you will able to check, if the topics are notable or not. Many people are consulting "Learning by teaching". We all want to construct relevant knowledge in Wikipedia and you are able to proof if an article is relevant or not. --Jeanpol (talk) 18:19, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I usually tell my students to look here for background information on LbT and was deeply surprised to learn about the plan to delete this entry. LbT is an established teaching approach and it is also part of many official teaching curriculae in many countries. Of course the people who created this entry support this approach and someone who wants to add critical comments may be welcome to do so. But deleting it as it is regarded as a kind of "advertisement" is rather weird. I hope the administrators do make up their minds about this. Zirkelklaus (talk) 08:53, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
In light of the fact that I expect the AfD to close as keep, I have attempted a major revision of the page. The goal is to make this a first step towards a page which broadly considers the topic and gives appropriate weight to Martin's contributions to the method and theory. I have also made a list of sources, both those that I removed from the page as well as some English language secondary sources. A major issue that remains in this revision is a combination of primary source usage, made tricky that the same journal articles can be both primary and secondary sources and there continues to be some elements of OR, given Martin's extensive creation of the page. In my draft I attempted to identify the elements of OR with citation needed tags. I expect that for many of these tags there is sourcing already present in the article that would support them - however I have not yet begun diving too deeply into the sources (and will be limited in my efforts to engage with the German sources). It is my intention in a "fast" time frame to implement my changes barring any immediate outcry and then to work collaboratively through the normal process to further bring this page into alignment with Wikipedia's best practices. It would be my hope that we could, fairly quickly given the presence of experts (if one of them being conflicted) and good sourcing, transform this into a legitimate good article. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:27, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
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1. 1984: Bayerisches Fernsehen: Aus Forschung und Lehre
2. 1992: Bayerisches Fernsehen: Aus Forschung und Lehre
3. 2002: DER SPIEGEL: Guten morgen liebe Zahlen
4. 2004: Reinhard Kahl: Treibhäuser der Zukunft. Wie in Deutschland Schulen gelingen., 3-DVD-Set mit Booklet, ISBN 3-407-85830-2.
5. 2007: Goethe Institut: Learning by Teaching: The Goal is Independence.
6. 2008: ZEIT-online: Schüler als Lehrer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeanpol (talk • contribs) 12:37, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
7. 2009: GEO WISSEN: Nr. 44 - 11/09 - Die ideale Schule Jeanpol (talk) 12:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
8. 2017: UNESCO (French): Apprentissage Personnalisé. Organisation des Nations Unies pour l'éducation, la science et la culture (UNESCO). Bureau international d'éducation. Outils de Formation pour le Développement du Curriculum. Genève. Juin 2017. 39-42.
9. 2017: ISB. LehrplanPLUS - Ergänzende Informationen Grundschule
10.2017: ISB. Ergänzende Informationen zum LehrplanPLUS. Gymnasium. Latein.
11. 2018: Olaf-Axel Burow & Stefan Bornemann. Das große Handbuch Unterricht & Erziehung in der Schule. Carl Link 2018. (I have an article - primary source - in this "Manual of Educational Sciences"). Jeanpol (talk) 06:24, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
In light of the AfD's closure as keep, I have attempted a major revision of the page. The goal is to make this a first step towards a page which broadly considers the topic and gives appropriate weight to Martin's contributions to the method and theory. I have also made a list of sources, both those that I removed from the page as well as some English language secondary sources I have found through some casual surfing. A major issue that remains in this revision is a combination of primary source usage, made tricky that the same journal articles can be both primary and secondary sources and there continues to be some elements of OR, given Martin's extensive creation of the page. In my draft I attempted to identify the elements of OR with citation needed tags. I expect that for many of these tags there is sourcing already present in the article that would support them - however I have not yet begun diving too deeply into the sources (and will be limited in my efforts to engage with the German sources). It is my intention in a "fast" time frame to implement my changes barring any immediate outcry and then to work collaboratively through the normal process to further bring this page into alignment with Wikipedia's best practices. It would be my hope that we could, fairly quickly given the presence of experts (if one of them being conflicted) and good sourcing, transform this into a legitimate good article. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:27, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
eric search. Jytdog (talk) 22:06, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Can anybody verify that this content is supported by this source?
As of 2009, all teachers in Germany were trained in the method.[1][page needed]
References
If so would you please provide:
This is a very strong claim and the source needs to be very strong. Jytdog (talk) 00:26, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
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This book is sort of "Festschrift" for me as I retired (536 pages). So a great amount of descriptions about my work are made, especially the "Vorwort" by Guido Oebel (Naga university, Japan) and the "porträt of Jean-Pol Martin" by Joachim Grzega, and a lot of articles by former students and other scholars. Of course they described how the method is spread in Germany and other countries.Jeanpol (talk) 05:46, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
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I retired 2008, not 2007.Jeanpol (talk) 08:00, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
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@Jytdog Are you willing to make this article to a "good article", like Barkeep49 wanted to?Jeanpol (talk) 07:00, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
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I think this is a good secondary source: (because UNESCO, French, and copy of French-Wikipedia): 2017: UNESCO (French): Apprentissage Personnalisé. Organisation des Nations Unies pour l'éducation, la science et la culture (UNESCO). Bureau international d'éducation. Outils de Formation pour le Développement du Curriculum. Genève. Juin 2017. 39-42.Jeanpol (talk) 03:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
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In order to provide reliable sources to the topic "notability" I'm searching in my past. From 1984 to 2000 my supporters and me made hugh research as teachers in the schools (empirically). As scholar I wrote my both thesis (doctor, than professor) and many articles for scientific journals. The teachers wrote a lot of articles too. So we were "notables" in the education-scene and very active as trainer in teaching-training. But the most usefull for "notability" in Germany (not just for spezialists) was the film by Reinhard Kahl "Treibhäuser der Zukunft". This film had a big success, not just in the education-bubble, but in a wide public. This film was publicated 2004. Kahl, von Reinhard (2005). Treibhäuser der Zukunft wie in Deutschland Schulen gelingen ; eine Dokumentation (2., überarb. Aufl. ed.). Berlin: Archiv der Zukunft [u.a.] ISBN 3-407-85830-2. Here the youtube-video (the report about my work begins 35:14): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=foxcULxYcUs Jeanpol (talk) 11:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
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Il'd like to correct little errors like "Hönle" instaed "Honle", "Reinhard Kahl" instaed "Reinhard von Kahl", and so on... And if verified: "Professor of French didactics" instaed "instructor", and retired "2008" instaed "2007". Thank you!Jeanpol (talk) 14:49, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
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@Jytdog As you know many users are interested in "Learning by teaching". In June you improved the article considerably. But they is a few remainder of informations who is perhaps important for the readers (see above). Could you please complete the article? Thanks a lot.--Jeanpol (talk) 09:20, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
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"One thing you can always do rather than make the changes yourself (which you shouldn't do) is make WP:Edit requests on the talk page. If these are backed up by RS that I can access to verify I would be happy to make the changes." Jeanpol (talk) 16:54, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
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Could somebody insert this title in the article?
Frank Jamet, Olivier Masson, Baptiste Jacquet, Jean-Louis Stilgenbauer, Jean Baratgin: Learning by Teaching with Humanoid Robot: A New Powerful Experimental Tool to Improve Children’s Learning Ability. In: Journal of Robotics. 2018, 2018, S. 1, doi:10.1155/2018/4578762 --Jeanpol (talk) 05:55, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
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Can somebody examine if the text about "Plastic Platypus Learning" is really relevant for the article? I think, a little notice about this will be enough. Thanks.Jeanpol (talk) 06:28, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
The scope of those articles is pretty similar... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:19, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Someone might wanna check out the 42 school. It might have some interesting stuff to add into this article.
I saw they do peer to peer learning in their system, and students gain credits for marking other students assignments and they have more or less removed traditional teacher roles from their school