This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lomography redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Cooperation (defunct) | |||
|
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. |
Is really Lomography something else than marketing ? The article should be either removed or expanded. If we keep it it the ten rules are important. In fact there is a strong tendancy in modern photography to use bad cheap camera for creative purposes. Lomography seems to me a commercial exploitation of this phenomenon.
As I can understand how Lomography is seen as a brand more than a different camera, you have to keep in mind that some might not have any idea of this and look it up here. I think it belong here. --Peter Sjöberg 15:39, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Note how there is no article for Fahrvergnügen, a similarly designed neologism - a promotion disguised as a philosophy. I have attempted to comb out most of the NPOV, while retaining most of the article's structure. The 10 rules already crescendo, they need not climax. --67.164.10.226 09:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I suppose this is a bit of opinion, but I do believe Lomography is more than marketing. Many people take part without ever hearing of the marketing campaign, myself included. In addition, this would seem to be a poor campaign in that lomography encompasses many cameras that are not LOMOs: The Brownie, Holga, Action Sampler, etc. The real idea is to find a cheap old camera at a garage sale and be surprised by the results. Perhaps a larger goal is to make photo art more accessible to amateurs. Then again, this is how I see it. Juicifer451 17:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I do believe the article belongs, but including the "10 rules" does seem like catering to the marketing aspect. I thought this the first time I read the article without reading the discussion. I was looking specifically for lomograpy, though, so I do think the article belongs. --Aaslatten 03:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the link to Alfred Klomp's essay. As listed under the Wikipedia External Link guidlines, "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority" are normally to be avoided. This is clearly a personal site and opinion. Omnibotz 04:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I added a link to Alfred Klomp's essay on why he doesn't like "LOMOgraphy". It was removed. I've just now reverted the removal.
This essay strikes me as opinionated but perceptive. It points out that Lomography is a commercial wheeze to turn the use of a mediocre camera (resold at a huge profit) to create poor photos into a fashionable and glamorous activity. But this summary makes it sound humorless, which I don't think it is. Anyway, it's a healthy counterbalance to the sites offering Lomography boosterism.
The link was removed with the edit summary: it was more about what the Lomo isnt and more about how much it costs. First, this WP article isn't titled "Lomo" or "Lomo LC-A"; it's titled "Lomography". And "Lomography" is very much about relative pricing (buy in Russia cheap, sell outside expensively), and it's what Klomp's article is about. Thus the link deserves to stay. -- Hoary 02:24, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)
This edit added: It is undeniablt true that the same results could be acheived with any run of the mill automatic camera from the 1950's-60's.
I changed that to The same results could be achieved with any run-of-the-mill automatic camera from the 1960s or 70s.
That was changed again to: The same results could be achieved with any run-of-the-mill automatic camera from the circa 1950-70, at a fraction of the price. (A subsequent edit removed the surplus the.)
I simplified that to The same results could be achieved with any run-of-the-mill automatic camera, at a fraction of the price.
Anyone who wants to reinsert dates should carefully consider when automatic (i.e. AE) cameras became run of the mill. The earliest Japanese auto-exposure camera I can think of offhand is the Olympus Auto-Eye of 1960. The transition of AE to run-of-the-mill-ness would have come some time after that. -- Hoary 10:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
More than an automatic camera, it's more of a cheaply, mass produced camera. The Brownie and Holga both fit into this category. I really wouldn't call either of those automatic, just because they don't have manual controls. Juicifer451 17:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
On "Lomography" in general -- and of course that's the subject of this article -- you certainly have a point. However, if you look at the first diff you'll see that this edit to part of which I objected was specifically about the LC-A. It read: it is undeniably true that there is nothing particularly special or unusual about the iconic LC-A model. It is a very ordinary automatic 35mm camera, the only remotely unusual features of which are etc etc. I took "automatic" here to mean automatic-exposure, and to say that AE cameras were run-of-the-mill as early as 1950 is ridiculous. -- Hoary 23:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I had to read down quite a long way before I had any idea of what the word "Lomography" actually meant. This should be at the top, before all the waffle about how loyal users may or may not be. 86.143.52.66 16:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
What the article says now, first than Lomography being a trademark, is that it is an 'analog camera movement'. I find this absolutely obnoxious. Lomography is a trademark, and this alleged movement is nothing else than part of its marketing. I find it horrible that marketing sneaks in like that in Wikipedia. This part of the intro should be changed, as it is nothing else than the marketing of the company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.231.173.81 (talk) 17:38, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
There is a palpable anti-lomo slant to the article now, and the first paragraph is barely readable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.240.81.77 (talk) 04:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
"Viral/tribal marketing- tribal marketing is when the organisation aims at trying to make a group of consumers seem exclusive and cool if they buy the organisation's products. It's about creating a vibe and special language/words tribe members aspire to and use, to demonstrate their exclusivity/difference from the normal plebs. There are numerous places on the net to find out about this, for instance this paper mentions the LS on page 6: http://ygourven2.online.fr/webcom/cova-tribe-2001.pdf
Viral marketing is more relying on word of mouth and what people stumble across on the internet i.e. that's a cool cross processed picture- I wonder what that's about? Every time someone posts a pic by a 'lomo' camera on the net that someone else sees and likes, that's advertising for free for the organisation (someone else can probably give a better definition of viral marketing). Edit- I just found viral marketing is on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_marketing But overall it surprises me that someone chose to cut out some phrases because they personally didn't know what they meant (rather than doing a simple google search and upskilling themselves)". M
As I read through this article on Lomography, it became obvious that many parts have a distinctly anti-lomographic bias. The writers are certainly entitled to their opinions, but this isn’t the place for them. I believe that the article should be neutral and informative – so that the reader can decide on things for themselves.
I’ve made a series of changes – detailed below:
“The name is licensed from a former state-run optics company LOMO PLC in St. Petersburg, Russia.” The Lomography trademark is not licensed. It is, however, based upon the name “LOMO”
124.180.93.125 11:38, Early 2007 (UTC)Like all monopoly agreements, prices were therefore controlled (and set high). The pricing systems of the Lomo Society generate a lot of contention on the internet. Many newcomers to the field are unaware of other cheaper sources of supply for the products they sell and/or feel a group loyalty to the society for introducing them to lomography.(from the earlier edit by M)124.180.93.125 11:38, Early 2007 (UTC) This series of comments are unnecessary. In the world of Amazon and Ebay, almost anything can be found cheaper. Customers judge and contest the prices of every online retailer – it’s the nature of things.
124.180.93.125 11:33, before August 2007 (UTC)"Dude- how knowledgeable are you about the movement and the people who get into it? Some people are genuinely unaware of cheaper sources (this page is meant to be informative after all and to help people who don't know much), others do buy cameras they know they can buy cheaper elsewhere from the LS because they do feel loyalty at being 'introduced' to lomography by the LS. They want to keep the LS going so pay more money than they should. It is illustrative of the mentality of people who support the LS and describes a psychological phenomenon involving supporters. It is very necessary to mention the controversy- as evidenced by the constant revisions here. How is this a truthful page on lomography if mention of the controversy it generates is always edited out by a) unknowledgeable people b) biased supporters- in fact it wouldn't surprise me if some of the revisions are from LS employees." M124.180.93.125 11:33, before August 2007 (UTC)
124.180.93.125 11:38, Early 2007 (UTC)Note this official list is not due to any overall coherent photographic philosophy (after all the "rules" could be applied to any camera) or attributes that the cameras share, rather it came about through a market/sales driven philosophy, that is, what cameras were available for the Lomo Society to buy and sell.(from the earlier edit by M)124.180.93.125 11:38, Early 2007 (UTC) That’s not true. Lomography produces a varied range of cameras. It’s pretty obvious that this defines a “Lomo” camera.
124.180.93.125 11:33, before August 2007 (UTC)"Dude- again you show your lack of knowledge. Here's the list of cameras they didn't make: Lomo LC-A Horizon Perfekt and Kompakt Minox GT-S Widepan 617 panoramic Polaroid Spectra and Jobpro Zenit MF-1 Zenit fotosniper Zenit 122k Zenit 412 Zenit KM Holga Seagull (did we ever figure out what model it was?) Yasuhara T981 Kiev 60 (in 645 format) Fed 5b Smena 8m Smena Symbol Lubitel (166U?) Vilia Loreo 3D After the LC-A, they started selling deadstock cameras they got cheap (mostly from the former USSR one presumes). Then branched off into other tangents i.e. the Holga, and some expensive cameras like the Minox etc... You'll find the supporters will start feeling antsy if they take lomographic style pics with a camera not on the list. It doesn't feel genuine to them." M124.180.93.125 11:33, before August 2007 (UTC)
124.180.93.125 11:38, early 2007 (UTC)—compare the popular Chinese-made Holga, ~US$80 from the Lomo Society vs. ~US$30 on eBay.(from the earlier edit by M)124.180.93.125 11:38, early 2007 (UTC) Again, I challenge you to find anything (other than Radiohead tickets or rare Nike sneakers) that isn’t less expensive on Ebay.
124.180.93.125 11:38, early 2007 (UTC)(Though others[citation needed] argue that most of the effect is due to the common use of cross-processed slide film).(from the earlier edit)124.180.93.125 11:38, early 2007 (UTC) The Lomo effect and cross processing are totally separate. Cross processing is achieved through the film, not the camera.
124.180.93.125 11:33, before August 2007 (UTC)"Again dude, your lack of understanding/widespread knowledge of the field is outstanding. What you don't get is that some people argue the 'lomo effect' (or what new people get excited about when they see a shot) is due to cross processing. Some people even report their LC-A's are just like any other (boring) compact when they run colour film through them". M124.180.93.125 11:33, before August 2007 (UTC)
Principles of Lomography have also been extended to cinema. Huh? Where?
The website also sells film at as much as 300% the price of the same film on other internet sites. Not necessary.
124.180.93.125 11:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)added the 4~'s, and tried to distinguish between the two posts I made i.e. early 2007 versus before August 2007. The 'dude' who I was arguing with is commenting in bold on that earlier post/edit124.180.93.125 11:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I've restored the link to Klomp's essay. It's coherent and thought-provoking, unlike a lot of what's written about "Lomography".
The link has frequently been removed, usually with no comment but most recently with External links - Removed link to Alfred Klomp essay, as it originates from a personal site, and not a recognized authority. It does indeed originate from a personal site, and Klomp is not a recognized authority. But Klomp is not being presented as a recognized authority (he is not cited for any assertion within the article). And while his site is personal, it's disinterested: it doesn't make any money off "Lomographic" goods or advertising. -- Hoary 23:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
124.180.93.125 11:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)you'll find when dealing with articles on this topic that it's a bit like scientology i.e. generates a lot of contention, and often the followers who comment aren't very clued up124.180.93.125 11:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
In this edit, Eaefremov removes a lot of links, with the comment how-to entries on personal blogs are still spam here, even if they're informative.
At least one of those links -- "Why I don't like Lomography" -- is neither in a blog nor a how-to. Otherwise, too, "how-to entries on personal blogs" seems rather a hasty generalization.
To me, spam implies advertising, junk, or both. Certainly, how-to pages can come with an advertising payload, and then it's legitimate to wonder whether the links have been added primarily in order to inform or to increase revenue for the webmaster. But Klomp's essay (for one) seems to have no advertising whatever.
Let's have a reasoned discussion here, Eaefremov. You may well be right. I'm all ears. -- Hoary (talk) 05:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Is lomography an art or just a trend? bunch of teenagers today are very excited about lomography. in fact, some of them don't really understand the concept or the idea of lomography itself. do they buy those cameras because they are interested? or they just want to look cool holding it because it is very in fashion today?--Ayusadha (talk) 01:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
There is a BBC Documentary on Lomography that you can find on youtube. It was very illuminating for me. It seems lomography is a cultural, or at least subcultural attitude about photo art.72.78.161.58 (talk) 04:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Seems I have discovered a nest-full of the very worst aspects of Wikipedia: it is nothing more than an on-line commercial advertisement for some rip-off merchants in Austria. The repeated removal from the article of the essay http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/lomography/index.htm exposing "Lomography" for what it is, together with the fact that the camera's actual brand name redirects to this article (which is like seeing the entry for cpu's redirect to the entry for intel) makes matters even worse. Meowy 18:40, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Fortunately there is a link pointing to Lomography-article at Camerapedia and it has that link pointing to that Klomp’s article. --juhtolv (talk) 07:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
As`far as i can see this is nothing more than a bunch of smart guys relaising that you really can sell ice to eskimos, im sure most of the people buying these products grew up in the digital age and so by buying in to this concept are living out some romantic notion of the good old days of 35mm film, in truth anyone wanting to experience this would purchase a good Nikon 35mm SLR film camera and commence their journey of fulfilling photography, the cameras and concepts i see for sale here are low in quality and simply exploiting unknowing individuals...........but i gues thats what marketing is all about —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.100.143.70 (talk) 09:21, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
With all the mass gurillia marketing hype associated with movies, commercialization as placement ads, and the merchandising everything from "Spaceballs" the toliet paper, to "Spaceballs" the flame thrower (Context: the Space Balls movie comments on this phenomnon of a movie francise), and all other media attached to this art. Example, Star Trek, forming conventions and what not (meeting as Lomographers do with their "Competitions and world congresses")...
Don't film makers meet, take work shops and discuss story ideas and film, and their production is displayed (in movie houses, film festivals), then overly hyped marketed and sold, you buy some Jason masks for halloween some Scream masks, you play Saw the video game, You buy the Star war cups from Mc Donald's, the Anakin pepsi. You read the novels, heck you even dress up like them at conventions.
How are Lomographs any different, as artist converse discuss techniques and live in their geeky subculture, and photograph, their works are displayed, and the cameras are overzealously marketed and sold in shops.
Or what about Disney? Just a bunch of artistic cartoons, and it mushroomed into theme parks, toys, Playstation games, and even spill out into the "real world" as suburbs (those weird suburbs owned by disney), and even a sport team. Yet, Disney animation is still considered art.
I removed the following links to personal pages of photographers embracing the lomography techniques: Fabio Pluda - Lomographer, LOMOBAIRES - Lomographer. These pages are not referenced in the text and have been added (possibly by their respective owners) without any explanation or good reason. The page of Fabio Pluda is a particularly obnoxious one: the link has been already removed (by someone else) and it has reappeared since, both times it was added by an editor with the same IP address, without comments, without any further edit, without reference in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.154.22.246 (talk) 22:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello. I am part of the Lomography Online Team and I would like to suggest updating this article with newer information. I have noticed that some of the details are obsolete. For example, some of the cameras mentioned in the entry have been discontinued and activities for film photography enthusiasts have been added to the Lomography roster. I am suggesting these changes purely for accuracy and not for promotional purposes. I would really appreciate your feedback regarding this matter. --Amalalle (talk) 12:26, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
((Requested edit))
I cleaned up some vandalism in the shape of Chinese text in parenthesis that read "scam" just next to "Lomography" in the fist paragraph. Anyway, this article really needs to be severely purged. I think, ladies and gents, that Wikipedia deserves better than this. For sure this article needs a clean-up and and a complete change in scope, as it seems entirely written from a fanboy point of view, if not from a COMPANY point of view, I fear. Most information just echoes corporate lore without references to people. In the tale of the Austrian students, for example: who were they? What kind of relationship do they have to Lomography AG? I also think that the article lacks a decent explanation on where this name, "Lomography", did come from and on who created this brand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Binomistar-g (talk • contribs) 17:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)