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This article seems to be lacking in sources. There seems to be a good deal of work being done, and as I am not in expert in this area I think I'll leave it up to other contributors. --Saerko 13:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it is useful to add a discussion of the Nazi Government-General in Poland to the Introduction. It was not a puppet state and is not generally included in lists of puppet states, so it is out of place in a section which sets out the meaning of the term. I've moved the material further down. Robert Cribb 22:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know where else to put this, but the introduction seems way overly long. It needs to be streamlined and condensed. I would do it myself but it seems rather daunting. It goes into too much detail. Nblinknpark41 23:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I've never hear the Republic of Texas referred to as a puppet government, and its not clear who it was the puppet government of.
It ought to be pretty clear.
See the list of states recognizing the Republic, see the relation of the republic's domestic politics, and see which country annexed the republic, and you see who it thought to have been a marionette of.
These words (puppet state, marionette regime, etc) are mostly used by people discontent with the actual government's dependency. In other words: puppet regimes of high-status governments are called something else (why not "friendly government" or "a brave statesman conducting true leadership"). However, puppet regimes of low-status governments (as for instance Imperial Germany - with low-status in English and French literature) are sometimes also called something else (as for instance independent Finland's government), if there are certain reasons not to hurt the national feelings of the government's subject.
-- Ruhrjung 13:59 18 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I have never thought of the Greek Junta government of 1967-1974 to be a puppet government of the United States, i feel the cause of the Junta was a result of government corruption in Greece.
Again, I've never heard the Republic of Hawaii referred to as a puppet government.
Puppet government is a pejorative term, can this article ever be NPOV. When does a vassal state (e.g. Batavian Republic), satellite state(e.g. Communist Czechoslovakia) or an interim administration (e.g. Iraq today) become a puppet government?
Mintguy 11:01, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
The current Iraqi government is so far an occupational government. If the occupation ends, but the political leadership in Bagdhad still is dependent on foreign powers, then it's become a marionette régime of those foreign powers.
See, by the way, NPOV - the term marionette government exists and is used. The idea with NPOV can't be to avoid controversial issues, but to describe them, don't you think?
-- Ruhrjung 12:05, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
A case could be made for calling The State of Israel a puppet state of the United States. In fact, Noam Chomsky has said on many occasions that Israel is basically a US military base. Thoughts? -- Seeker 04:20, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
-G — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.153.183 (talk) 01:09, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
I know that I was messing with other pages and not supposed to. But this isn't vandalism. Some believe this, its not vandalism like when i was putting obscene pictures in the sharon article.
This user has tried to redirect Israel to [[Zionist entity]], inserted a picture of a penis on the Ariel Sharon page,
...a picture of Sharon on the Penis page, added in POV rants to pages, etc. He says he is now leaving wiki but given that he said he was going to stop 'messing' with pages and eight minutes later started again, I don't think we can pay much reliance to anything he says. See User talk:Palestinian liberator/ban for the full details. BTW I too have been a critic of Israel and for NPOVing RK's stuff have been called 'anti-semite' by RK so it is a bit amusing to be called a 'zionist'. (But then I was called a 'rapid Irish republican' and and pro-Brit Tory for exactly the same edit, an "openly Australian monarchist" and a "naked pro-Australian republican" for one edit elsewhere, so I guess if both sides think me pro- the other, I am kinda NPOV! :-) FearÉIREANN 12:48, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more. :-)
Some conflicts quite simply reach us in the clothing of rage.
-- Ruhrjung 13:24, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
US government as a Zionist puppet...IF ONLY THIS WERE TRUE! Unfortunately its not. But the PLO and Hamas are puppets of Iran. They only exist for the genocide and policide of the Jewish state. Their goal is not statehood but the destruction of Israel. They could have had a state between 1948 and 1967 when Judea and Samaria were Jew free, but they did not once call for a state. The Arabs are liars and chancers and must be crushed. Islamofascism is rampant, killing everyone that is not 'one of them'. The world is becoming ever more dangerous thanks to the Left whose only answer is appeasement. Do not be sidetracked by nonsense such as the 'US government as a Zionist puppet', get real or die! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.25.237 (talk) 14:17, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Removed from the list of wellknown puppet governments:
--Tuomas 22:21, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Is there a reason why the international list is in reverse chronological order, while the European list is in normal chronological order? --Menchi 22:49, Aug 10, 2003 (UTC)
I admit I didn't notice. But I think it's logical to have the "big" list, the one covering a century or more, in reversed order as that's how our memory works. --Tuomas 01:45, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I don't think Fascist Italy counts as a puppet government, as the de facto ruler (Mussolini) was Italian himself. A puppet state is one controlled by a foreign power...
I think there ought to be a clearer distinction drawn between a "puppet government" and a "puppet state". The former typically involves a foreign power installing a compliant leadership in a pre-existing state against the wishes of the people. The latter usually means the foreign power actually carving out the state itself. The remedy proposed (by the POV which uses the label "puppet") for the former would be simply to have a more representative, independent government. The remedy proposed for the latter may well be to abolish the state completely as an artificial, unnatural entity. The foregoing is just off the top of my head; are there any sources making the suggested distinction? Joestynes 05:42, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Removed this. Vassal state and puppet state are quite different. Puppet states have theoretical freedom but are actually controlled by the ruling state. Most historical examples of vassal states are the exact opposite.
Remove vassal state from puppet state. "Puppet states have theoretical freedom but are actually controlled by the ruling state. Most historical examples of vassal states are the exact opposite." Exactly. Vassal states demonstrate the weakness of the "ruling" state whereas puppet states demonstrate strength.
"Vassal state" also has a profound difference in historical context from "puppet state." The current nation-state system is a system of (theoretically) equal entities. Earlier systems incoporated a ranking with vassalage (tutelage) accruing from lower to higher levels. It was a mutual arrangement which "puppet state" does not apply.
LuiKhuntek 20:11, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
I added south korea. The south korean military is under the command of a US general in wartime, the south korean president has no control over his army. North korea uses this to accuse the south of being a puppet. I feel that this has a right to be mentioned. - Yasis
Some other examples of states sometimes labelled 'puppet governments' are:
South Korea is sometimes labelled a "puppet". That is true. The fact that the ROK president has no legal power to control the "ROK" military during wartime is also true. I feel that this fact, which not many people are aware of, deserves a mention on this particular page that discusses "puppet states". I feel that is fair. - Yasis 18 May 2005
Alright, Sesel, I disagree with your statement about the Solomon Island's being a puppet state, however I understand it being listed as such.
Despite that, describing Operation Helpem Fren as an Invasion is just nonsense. --203.17.44.84 10:37, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
I put this page up for deletion due to the fact that this article appears to be thouroughly unencyclopedic due to the fact that there are no sources, and none if this is based off solid fact, it's based more off of popular opinion that these countries where puppet states, and FYI I agree that many of them were, but I still don't think that this article qualifies as a factual article due to the fact that none of this can be backed up. Jtkiefer 05:38, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
Sounds like a job for verification instead of VfD. Where do you people get this perverted idea of destroying information instead of improving or verifying it? — Phil Welch 05:46, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
for the sake of reading any comments, here's the link to the vfd Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Puppet_state Jtkiefer 06:44, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
I think the list by itself should not be a part of the article however I think that parts of it would be appropriate for use as a part of the article as examples of puppet states. Jtkiefer 06:19, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
List as of 6/25 of accused puppet states, here's the list for the archives even if the main page version is deleted, so we can have a copy of the list in case any of it's information can be implemented in the article. Jtkiefer 06:47, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
TJive, given that you are admitting to the possibility of excluding some claims that certain regimes were puppet states but not others, you are implicitly admitting that you have a personal criteria for including and excluding certain regimes in this list, which means that you are indeed creating original research. Yet some of the "accusations" that you find worth listing might be as readily dismissed as dubious by a specialist as some of the ones that you consider not worthy of consideration, particularly a number of "alleged" puppet states listed under the U.S. and the Soviet Union. Generating such a list might be appropriate for a political scientist, but not for a user on Wikipedia. Even professionally written sourcebooks and encyclopedias do not generate original lists along these lines for entries on terms like "satellite state" or "puppet state." For the same reason the list entitled Sixteen known nuclear crises of the Cold War was deleted, this list should be deleted as well. 172 08:08, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For me, the criteria are clear: if it's verifiable that some state or major political figure has claimed that a given state is a puppet state, than it is worthy of being reported in this article. As the list really isn't a list any longer (it *includes* lists, but it isn't a list itself), then it's perhaps a little more clear. — Phil Welch 23:57, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't know. Obviously I'm not done verifying the list yet or I would have taken the notice off. I assume that you're as qualified at using Google as I am, however, so why don't you find out? By the way, didn't you quit awhile ago? — Phil Welch 00:39, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC) (struck out: — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:30 (UTC)) Point taken; you win. It's been removed. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:30 (UTC)
Dude, you do realize that there is a box that states that the content needs to be cleaned up and verified before that section of the article and that furthermore, it isn't a list (try reading it sometime)? The term "puppet state" is a pejorative, and it's a term that has been used in politics and possibly even in history after things cooled down (like the Axis-controlled puppet states). If you don't think the term "puppet state" is a subject worthy of "scholarly research" then why didn't you vote delete on the VfD? — Phil Welch 01:06, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I am bothered by the possibility of inaccuracies. Why do you think I posted a box that says "certain factual claims in this section need verification"? Of course, I am also just as bothered by the idea of recklessly destroying information that hasn't been verified yet. And I would wonder how exactly we are to have an article about the term "puppet state" without discussing when and where the term has been used. — Phil Welch 01:24, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
By the way, what exactly have *you* done to make the information in this article more reliable? All I've seen you do is either destroy information wholesale or whine on a talk page. And I've checked the edit history. Aside from that you've even assumed bad faith on my part and wasted your time posturing (working with social science research since most Wikipedia editors were probably born). You're stretching my ability to assume good faith here. — Phil Welch 01:30, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC) (struck out: 30 June 2005 12:30 (UTC))
My mess? I didn't post the list in the first place, dumbass. And try reading the article. There isn't a list. — Phil Welch 03:43, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC) (strikeouts: 30 June 2005 12:30 (UTC))
Well, you're no great loss. Between assuming bad faith and blindly destroying content (probably out of some POV-pushing desire for censorship) I'm glad this article is rid of you. — Phil Welch 03:59, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC) (struck out: 30 June 2005 12:30 (UTC))
Yeah, I really regret all that. I went ahead and struck out all the comments I would like to take back, but there's always the possibility I missed some. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:30 (UTC)
There is certainly room for a mention of Mongolia in particular, as the nation was carved out by the direct interference of Bolshevik troops and the state was subservient to the USSR for the duration of subsequent decades of communist politicking--this is mentioned in virtually every account of the relevant history not inclined to a favorable view of the nascent Soviet regime. I believe also that sometime around the end of the second world war, Stalin quietly annexed a small piece of Mongolian territory just as occurred with Japan, Romania, and Poland.
Some others are less clear, as there was divided opinion on the matters of Angola, Mozambique, Nicaragua, and Grenada. One section believed them (except perhaps the Bernard Coard coup) to be largely benign movements for national liberation and social justice. Others labeled them puppet states for their dependency on Soviet and Cuban aid (and by aid I am not implying merely dollars and guns but also thousands of troops). Certainly Rhodesia, South Africa, RENAMO, UNITA, the Reagan administration, and others regarded them in these terms. Hence there is a muddle, as while Cuba's subservience, economically, to Moscow was quite apparent by this time, the extent of its independence in foreign policy matters was less clear--with some intelligence branches serving as extensions of the KGB and others quasi-independent. The two nations regardless had the same goal and when New Jewel and the Sandinistas came to power Castro is said to have remarked, "now there are three of us". What further throws into this mess is the fact that Angola, Mozambique, and Nicaragua were not (full) members of COMECON, the Soviets' tool for economic and political leverage, but qualified for aid apart from this as being vanguard parties even if not quite 'socialist'. COMECON was the fastest way for the term satellite state to be leveraged, hence Cuban satellization in the preceding decades and references in regards to some of these nations as near-satellites. The explicit term puppet state in regards to each and every one of these situations would be more difficult to find, if we are strictly limiting it to the qualification of "X said puppet state/regime/government/leader on Y date", and this goes doubly for the then (half-)Yemeni regime, but much less so for Afghanistan. --TJive 03:53, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)
Alright. If you want to (you seem pretty well versed in this) you can go ahead and expand that section, although we might want to have some more details and references than we had previously. — Phil Welch 04:00, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I think if we can resolve the immediate dispute we can start on the task of verifying and expanding some of this fascinating stuff. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:20 (UTC)
I think the Soviet Union portion is looking good, with a lot of the information verified with internal references (Gerald Ford, Brezhnev and Sinatra doctrines, etc.). Obviously more information with more references would be good there, but I think we have a good leg to stand on. United States could use some verification. The Imperial Japan and Axis don't look like a problem (as well as making sense in list form) while Vietnam can be verified. Obviously the long "miscellaneous" section needs the most work. What does everyone else think? — Phil Welch 04:25, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Given that all the unverified material is clearly marked as such, that immediate problem is taken care of. — Phil Welch 13:46, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well, given that the notice is temporary until we *can* verify it, then we'll verify it. — Phil Welch 00:03, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Then do something about it. Help us verify. — Phil Welch 28 June 2005 16:53 (UTC)
Alright, you win. Look below. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:21 (UTC)
Go ahead and state any specific factual or neutrality dispute here. (So far, you have only disputed the "list" that no longer exists in the article, and you have claimed it is unverified, which it was clearly marked as before you started the neutrality/factual dispute). In other words, specifically state which portion(s) of the article you believe to be non-factual or non-neutral. If you do not respond in 24 hours I will remove the dispute tags, as they are useless unless someone has actually cited a real dispute on the page. Do not disrupt Wikipedia to make a point. — Phil Welch 28 June 2005 17:03 (UTC)
Sorry, that's not a neutrality or factual dispute, that's a verifiability dispute. You're using the wrong tags. Incidentally, there's no statement anywhere in the article that any given state *is* a puppet state, only that certain given states are *accused* of being puppet states by others, with specific explanations of those accusations. Furthermore, I don't even particularly want to discuss it, I want you to tell me specifically what's either non-factual or non-neutral. If I agree I'll remove or rephrase it, and if I don't agree I'll leave the tag up and call an RfC to get some sort of consensus, assuming you continue to refuse to actually participate here. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 06:42 (UTC)
The above comments...just forget them, I struck them out. Look below. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:34 (UTC)
I have decided to *temporarily* remove some disputed content until it can be verified. I am of course leaving in the content I believe to already be verified. I'm also reworking some of the content so it flows a lot better and doesn't read like a list of puppet states. To 172, I would like to sincerely apologize for our previous differences and invite you to help improve this content. I'm working a little blindly because you haven't taken the effort to say what exactly you would like changed at this point, but I thought I should at least make an effort. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 11:27 (UTC)
I'm done. I removed all of the lists with the exception of "historic puppet states" (which has never been disputed, but if you want to dispute it go ahead) and the list of states that were puppets of the Axis (because I had no freaking idea how to rework that). Thus, everything seems pretty well verified now, with the Eastern Europe stuff "internally verified" (i.e. verified against other content in Wikipedia), the WWII stuff internally verified as well, the Korea and Vietnam bits internally verified, and Afghanistan and Iraq verified with external links. If anyone has *any* problem with what's left I would like to hear it so I have some idea of what needs to be done to make everyone happy. — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:13 (UTC)
I'd like to further note that I meant this to be temporary--since we have a subpage serving as a backup of the old list, we can verify some of the content and reinsert it into the article as we wish (albeit in a more useful format). — Phil Welch 30 June 2005 12:19 (UTC)
While accused puppet states certainly belong here, I think that there should be "comfirmed" puppet states at the very least instead of leaving the reader guessing which ones are actually puppet states. CJK 15 July 2005.
Should the "historic puppet states" list be renamed to something like "Accusations of puppet states before 1900"? I'm Finnish I've never heard outside of Wikipedia that Grand Duchy of Finland has ever been accused of being a puppet state. In Finland we generally aknowledge that before 1917 we were a part of the Russian Empire or before that, a part of Sweden.
"A puppet government is a government that owes its existence to a foreign power".
However, before 1917 Finland had always existed as a part of "foreign" power, (as in not ruled by the Finns themselves). Finland got a government under the Russian rule, but before our independence the government never was, or claimed to be independent of Russia, just an autonomous part of it, so I'm not sure can you call the Russian emperor a foreign power any more that you could call the Swedish king a foreign power. And Finland by no means was a puppet state when it was a part of Sweden. It was simply a part of the country. I'm not sure can you label a part of a country as a puppet state when it gets more autonomy. I would not say that the Aland Islands are a puppet state of Finland (an ankward comparsion perhaps).
"Often a proclaimed puppet government faces a rival government which uses the puppet government term to weaken the legitimacy of that government."
This was not the case with GD of Finland. GD of Finland (to my knowledge) had no rival governments. The only rule/government that proved to be a problem for Finns during the autonomy was the Russian emperor himself, who of course did not try to weaken the legitimacy of the Finnish government, since the Emperor himself was the legal ruler of the Finnish government.
"Also usually implied is the government's lack of legitimacy, in the view of those using the term."
The relations between GD of Finland and the Russian Emperor are quite clear. Legally, the ultimate ruler of the Finnish government was the Russian Emperor. The Russian Emperor was represented by a governor-general in Finland. The governor-general was the chairman of the Finnish senate.
Calling the GD of Finland a puppet state is at least debatable. I'd say its more correct to claim that the Grand Duchy of Finland was an autonomous part of the Russian Empire, not a puppet state. To my ear calling the GD of Finland a puppet state makes it seem as if we (Finns) thought we were an independent state of Russia back then, that we thought we were free of Russian rule or influence but in secrecy the Russian Emperor ruled.193.166.69.130 16:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
What about Soviet puppet regimes in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia?
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were occupied by Soviets in June 1940, annexed in August 1940. During this period of almost two months Baltic countries were formally independent and rulled by puppet governments. See Occupation of Baltic Republics. Sigitas 09:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Not strong enough? Sigitas 00:46, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
That says absolutely nothing about puppet states, although if you had a source for that quote it would be a good thing to mention in the relevant articles about the history of the Baltic states. — Phil Welch (t) (c) 07:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I believe that Japan would be a puppet state to America since the signing of the Japanse constitution. Japan has never had any major diplomatic views that challenged the United State's and It can call upon America to defend them in a time of war. Gecko1 23:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
youre forgeting all the u.s troops stationed in japan. one of the first things usa tends to do when it creates a pupet state is by forcing the market to open and making it extremely capitalist, which japan coincidently is.
I am suggesting that someone with some knowledge of the country consider Lebanon. First, there used to be something called the South Lebanese Army which was clearly a puppet. BUT does it qualify as a "puppet state". Then there are any number of other factions in Lebanon which are controlled by outside forces in Syria, Iran, or (historically) a number of other states. BUT, again, I wonder if these factions would qualify as "puppet states".
I thought that this subject would be worth exploring by someone with more background in modern Lebanese history. I get lost before I get very much into the civil war. Mkpumphrey 04:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be necessary to add the topic of USA puppet states established in Latin America through the "golpe"s, as Argentina, Chile, etc. I hope somebody expert in the field will help with this, because these are one of the most representing examples of puppet states in XX century, along with the United Kingdom! --84.221.102.83 (talk) 01:36, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
The neutrality of this article is seriously undermined unless someone edits it to contain all of the puppet states the U.S. has ever coordinated. The U.S. is probably the largest perpetrator of this type of action in world history. The satellite state article is also due for edits in this regard as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exodus206 (talk • contribs) 16:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Some Latin America countries has been (saddly) United States puppet states, but it is important to note that this is done by fear of possible economical embargs like the one done to Cuba. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Will824 (talk • contribs) 19:56, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
what a surprise, no mention of south sudan, kosovo, libyan rebels, japan, israel, kuwait, qatar, saudi arabia, uae, hong kong, singapore, all pupet states of either the u.s or britain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.163.7.55 (talk) 14:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
I've removed the following list from the article until each item can be individually sourced. If it's controversial whether to regard them as puppet states or not, it's doubly important that we cite sources and say who does and who doesn't.
Other entities sometimes considered puppet states are:
Ptcamn (talk) 21:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
The Kingdom of Finland was a German puppet-state no doubt (or supposed to become), but what about the Finnish Socialist Workers' Republic. Could it be said that it was a Soviet Russian puppet state? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
The way it works, find some reliable sources that say so.--Termer (talk) 05:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Add description and point of views make read can think more before actually accepting this term. The word "puppet state" is easily to be abused and misunderstood. The word can be abused to reinvent history and traditions. Adding different schools of POVs can actually helpful. Do it if you are majoring in politics, history related to nationalism, or other related matters.--Kittyhawk2 (talk) 06:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I've also noticed it that states get added randomly to this article. I'm not saying that the most of the states here are not considered puppet states, but anything would still need a source of reference pr WP:RS. And anything that is not sourced so may be removed any time by any editor. I'm adding the refimprove tag to ref section for now. But somebody definitely would need to take the time and look up refs for all the states claimed to be puppets in the article. In the future anything added without ref should be simply removed I'd say. If someone can come up with a pupet state, it shouldn't be a problem to find a source for that.--Termer (talk) 07:09, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
why no mention of afganistan and iraq. they are both occupied by pupet govts of the usa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.120.169 (talk) 15:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
What about Northern Cyprus, Nagorno-Karabakh, Azad Kashmir? -- Hellerick (talk) 09:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Abkhazia does fit into the category of a "puppet state", even though it is not lanlocked and as dependent on Russia as South Ossetia. Abkhazia has declared independence but its ability to maintain independence is solely based on Russian troops deployed on Georgian territory and Russian aid and nor is it internationally recognized by the United Nations and according to the United Nations criteria. Does this not qualify it as a "puppet state", just like South Ossetia?
And those internationally unrecognized "states" that the user Hellrick mentioned above qualify as well, as these have a mothercountry proping them up.
Wouldn't some independent countries like Palau and the Marshall Islands qualify? They ofthen depend so heavily on foreign aid that I can imagine that their formal independence doesn't really mean much. MMMMM742 (talk) 22:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Only mentioning the puppet states of the countries that are against America, while the US has the biggest amount of puppet states in the world, and the CIA has broken the record of installing more puppet dictators in third world countries than any other intelligence organization. Very typical of wikipedia, If the US, Israel, or Britain have something to do with it, then cover it up.--Propaganda328 (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
It is quite inconsistent article in its final section. Inclusion of Abkhazia and South Ossetia is dubious. Those territories were de facto independent from 1991, and they initially achieved it without physical support of Russian army. What about: Northern Cyprus (obvious puppet state of Turkey), Nagorno Karabakh, Kosovo, ex-Serb Krajina? It is dubious how to classify Transdnistria. I also agree that Pacific island states are not independent in conventional terms. They are just extra US votes in UN, completely dependent on it in economic and political sense. My suggestion is that we just list, and indicate that these contemporary examples are open to interpretation. The other option is to avoid mentioning these altogether.Jaksap (talk) 18:45, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
"Distinction between state and government" - 9,790 GoogleBooks hits.
I propose to clarify the distinction between state and government. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Venezuela has today no constitutionally legitimate president, nor a constitutionally legitimate vice president. In fact it has no constitutionally legitimate head of state. The government travels to Cuba to meet with its president, Raúl Castro, when important decisions are to be taken. Furthermore, there are Cuban flags outside government buildings in Venezuela; Cubans occupy many important positions including in the intelligence and security services; and the former president of Venezuela, now president-elect who was not sworn in on the mandated day (January 10, 2013), is in Cuba, beyond reach for affirming if he is dead or alive, and there has been no sign of life from him for 50 days. It is claimed that he signs laws, but years ago he adopted electronic signing of laws, so the only thing needed for someone else to do it is to hack the 8-character code and have his credit-card like ID. All of this together clearly indicates that the de facto-regime in Venezuela is entirely dependent on Cuba for its survival. Yet Cuba neither created the regime nor the state; the sovereignty was partly handed over by Chávez, partly it was obtained by trickery after his departure from the political scene. --Dr Ulf Erlingsson (talk) 12:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Romania was not a German puppet in WW2, it was just like another less powerful axis country, like Finland. They were fighting for their own cause, and what about East Germany?Ovsek (talk) 07:48, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Somebody should mention about these puppet states in Asia during WWI. There were lot of them, here is some of my propositions:
1. "Republic of Mahabad", that Soviets atempted to create in Iran in 1946-1947. Someone should add this, as it was a typical Asian pupped state. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Kurdistan
2. So-called "Republic of China" (not Chiang's RoC), Japanese puppet state, ruled by Wang Jingwei (de facto ruled by Japanese) in 1940-1945 with the capital in Nanking. It was the second japanese puppet-state, other than Manzhukuo. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorganized_National_Government_of_China
3. "Second Philippine Republic" 1943-1945. Japanese puppet state. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Philippine_Republic
4. "Azad Hind" 1943-1945, Japanese puppet state in India. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azad_Hind
5. Something should note Dutch puppet states in Indonesia: East Indonesia, Kartalegawa, West Borneo. Source: http://books.google.pl/books/about/Dutch_puppet_states_in_Indonesia.html?id=oSUyAAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.254.77.100 (talk) 20:52, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
To determine if one is a puppet state, I've posted a definition of puppet sate according to English dictionary. therefore it should be easy now to figure it out considering NPOV.
Puppet state is a country that is independent nominally but under the control of another power in reality.
So, the questions asked it it's a puppet state we're talking about it seems should be:
hope that it helps--Termer 07:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
<copied from a user talk page>
Thanks--Termer 09:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi Termer, I think the term puppet government is always bad. In France you had Vichy: a French government what made concessions to Germany that occupied most of the country; Netherlands was occupied, Arthur Seyss-Inquart was an Austrian appointed by Germany who didn't pretend to be representing the Dutch people. I really have no time to check all those lemmas. I encourage other people to improve them. In this case occasionally I did it. Otto 16:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
OK Otto please feel free to call taking over another countries and their governments by any foreign powers a "political criticism". It doesn't change the facts those things happening in the world of ours and those facts belong to any encyclopedia.--Termer 09:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
To my disappointment I see that Termer at 14 December 2008 [7] has deleted an essential passage from the introductory paragraph of the article: ""Puppet state" is a term of political criticism, used to denigrate a current government which is perceived as unduly dependent upon an outside power. It implies that government's lack of legitimacy, in the view of those using the term." Apparently he felt the need to adjust the semantics of this term to his own prejudices. This lack of integrity harms the objectivity of wikipedia. Otto (talk) 17:55, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Before user Termer removed it on 14 December 2008 the introduction of this lemma read: ""Puppet state" is a term of political criticism, used to denigrate a government which is perceived as unduly dependent upon an outside power. It implies that government's lack of legitimacy, in the view of those using the term." I propose to restore this introduction. For my arguments I refer to my discussion with Termer and Marting on this page in the paragraph "Puppet state". Otto (talk) 18:54, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
I just reverted the page to the situation before Nug changed the introduction. He should discuss his POV at this talk page. There is obviously no consensus. Otto (talk) 10:40, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
The introduction which has been deleted by Nug under the pretense of being a "fringe viewpoint" was:
Puppet state is a term of political criticism, used to denigrate a government which is either perceived as, or is actually unduly dependent upon an outside power. It implies that government's lack of legitimacy, in the view of those using the term.
Otto (talk) 11:48, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
This state was considered a puppet by France, but many italians were supporting it as a first step to Risorgimento.--82.56.64.68 (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
SantiLak repeatedly removed the following entry:
under the pretext that Globalresearch.ca shouldn't be a reliable source. That is POV from SantiLak and no excuse for removing an actual view about the legitimacy of the current (West-)Ukranian government. Anyway, Ukraine is a failed state: it has no actual control about part of the territory and airspace it claims sovereignty about. Otto (talk) 11:26, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
References
You need to be quite intoxicated to read an "overwhelming consensus" in that discussion. The disputed article on GlobalResearch is written by Steve MacMillan. Practically the same analysis from the same author has been published at www.theanalystreport.net. Otto (talk) 22:55, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Just for the record:
Southern Vietnam was for example an American puppet state. Iran was between 1953-1955 during the Operation Ajax a puppet state of the UK and the USA.--Athanasius Lux (talk) 18:51, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
As I understand Southern Vietnam wasn't an American puppet state. Remember, Vietnam was parted in two to give the French occupiers time to leave and waiting for it's elections to reunite again - so, no government to puppeteer. It is that moment the US moved in to 'help with nation building'.
There is a lot of misconception about South Vietnam, both North and South Vietnam were actually communist. The Vietnam war was mainly between America and the resistance in South Vietnam, the latter one supported by the North. After the Gulf of Tonkin incident the US had excuse to start a full war. 145.129.68.224 (talk) 05:32, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
After 1000 years the Chinese got expelled from Vietnam, but not much later the French did colonize it again in about 1800 and installed the puppet-ruler Bao Dai. Then, during WW2, the Japanese did invade Vietnam but keeping the French rule as puppet. With other words, the Vietnamese emperor Bao Dai was a puppet of the French, and the French were puppets of the Japanese. The US did support the Viet Minh to fight the Japanese. When it was clear Japan was gonna lose the war, Brittain, US, and USSR did agree during the Yalta conference that Vietnam did belong to France. After WW2 and Japanese gone the people of Vietnam declared independence, which did lead to the Indo-French war. When France got beaten Vietnam was parted by the UN to give the French time to leave and the Vietnamese to set up own government by holding elections. 145.129.68.224 (talk) 06:12, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
I've added the NPOV tag because as many editors stated earlier, only some puppet states are portrayed here, while others arent mentioned or were wrongly deleted. For example, USA puppet states as South Vietnam.--HCPUNXKID 10:41, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Current (outdated, obsolete):
My edit (up-to-date, including 2013-2015 developments):
Dr.K. reverted with the pretext of 1. "blatant synthesis" 2. "misrepresentation of sources" 3. "sockpuppetry claim":
1. "blatant synthesis":
No synthesis at all! I take word-to-word decisions of the European Court of Human Rights! I included the negative aspects as well: "...notwithstanding the lack of international recognition of the regime in the northern area". If you think this phrase to be included in "Puppet State" article as well, I can put here it as well.
Could you show your non-synthesized version as well so that 3rd parties can compare whether any such synthesis exists? By the way, I am welcome to include any info that will come from Dr.K. and any others that they regard as omitted etc.
2. "misrepresentation of sources":
The sources I gave are from the "official" website of USA's Federal Court and "official" website of the European Court of Human Rights. Hence, your misrepresentation of sources claim is false. Aside from this, if you have any problem on the sources I gave, please specify this in detail.
3. Sockpuppetry claim in Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alexyflemming:
I disprove many accusations there, and will disprove at all. This accusation has its own course just right there.Woodgridge (talk) 15:59, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
References
In short, the electorate of Northern Cyprus votes freely for its political leaders and gives them substantial support. Nor is Northern Cyprus a Turkish puppet state. Mr Denktas and the Turkish-Cypriot case have a powerful following in Turkey...
In short, the electorate of Northern Cyprus votes freely for its political leaders and gives them substantial support. Nor is Northern Cyprus a Turkish puppet state. Mr Denktas and the Turkish-Cypriot case have a powerful following in Turkey...
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