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Hello, I edited this article to list a common view that the United States is in a position to be governed by a group that places Russia's interests in front of American interests, see here. It was reverted as "Not at all similar to the articles definition of puppet state." I understand the reason for the revert, but I would like to state the case. The article defines a puppet state as "a state that is supposedly independent but is in fact dependent upon an outside power.[1] It is nominally sovereign but effectively controlled by a foreign or otherwise alien power, for reasons such as financial interests." In the citations included, I believe that I provided evidence that meets each portion of the definition: dependence on outside power; controlled externally; financial interest of the outside power to exercise such control. This is an item of high discussion, and I understand that it could be labelled as part of an ongoing news story. The facts are changing quickly. However, there is ample evidence that this is occurring in the United States today; President Obama addressed the topic at length at a press conference today. This is noteworthy, factual, NPOV and should be included in Wikipedia. Submitted respectfully, -NC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.223.172.106 (talk) 20:32, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
We should make a clear distinction of what were actual puppet states and just states supported by outside forces. The article seems to mix them, particularly in the post-WW2 Soviet section. If no argument is made against it, i will try to change it myself in the coming days. Rikskansler (talk) 19:56, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I concur with this assessment of this page in that it blends governments that are externally coerced and suppressed by force or threat of force (governments over populations which would prefer independence and/or the absence of the external power), and externally-supported revolutionary states with populations supportive of annexation or incorporation into an external power. Perhaps puppet state is an overly broad term, but it would seem that the latter fall into a different category. Of the examples given, this is clearest in the Republic of Texas and the Duchy of Courland, the Republic of Kuwait, the Republic of Serbian Krajina, and South Ossetia, which were developed through revolution by an ethnic group with the full expectation and intent of being annexed or incorporated by an external sponsor. This is more in line with unconventional warfare than the conventional application of the elements of state power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:800C:1501:FA3D:146C:F26C:21D6:20A5 (talk) 05:56, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
I removed the Belarusian People's Republic (which could hardly be called a puppet state, because it was established prior to the German occupation of Belarus and never actually received much support from the Germans or was recognised by them) and the Joseon dynasty (which had existed a long time before 1895 and was merely removed from the Chinese suzerainty to be later annexed) from the list. And I really doubt that the Republic of Texas should be here either. --Svawald (talk) 19:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
This needs to be discussed and the issues resolved or the tag needs to be removed. It's been up for two years. You can't put a tag up expecting it to remain forever purely to voice your personal disapproval of the claims or information presented. It's temporary. 108.34.201.56 (talk) 20:15, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
I am curious as to why the terms "client state" and "puppet state" are used interchangeably. Puppet states are a type of client state, but many articles refer to puppet states as client states instead of the former. Shouldn't said articles be changed to puppet states or am I missing something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Conner Neu (talk • contribs) 08:40, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
Don't you think New Zealand is puppet state of Australia? They have many agreements, both military and civil, and influence of Australian culture is huge in New Zealand. Many post-colonial laws apply to both countries. They recognize the same monarch and have similar flags. New Zealanders can even serie in Australian military forces. Union between New Zealand and Australia is similar to confederation between Belarus and Russia. New Zealand would not survive without Australia's support, and for me it's example of modern puppet state.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.117.32.61 (talk) 08:20, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
The puppet/client states are sovereign states? --Davi Gamer 2017 (talk) 16:58, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
What does the article mean when it states that the Republic of Latvia, Republic of Lithuania, and Republic of Estonia were illegally annexed? Illegal according to who? The League of Nations? The source given for the information is a paper with a similar title that talks about Baltic nationalism after the fall of the USSR. Edward Benes (talk) 01:46, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
It seems to me that the section on WWII puppet states is a duplication of the page List of World War II puppet states and as such to me should be removed, in addition to the fact that its neutrality is disputed and less actively maintained. I suggest it be removed and replaced by a link to the aforementioned page. Cnd474747 (talk) 04:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Hungarian Soviet Republic was not a puppet state. During its short existence, Soviet-Russia was too weak to be able to create puppet states. In fact, leadership asked Russia for help, but they were unable to provide, because they were in the middle of their own civil war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.98.110.138 (talk) 17:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Kosovo was created mainly by US intervention, same goes for the former Afghanistan regime. They should be included here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:a210:a401:4b80:99c2:49d9:cfd5:a4ad (talk) 16:34, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:08, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
User:Citobun: Noted that you reverted my removal of three links at the the end of the article. Given that your edit summary "Whitewashing" is quite vague, I invite you to clarify this so we may have a discussion on how we can refine the edit.
Thank you Carter00000 (talk) 13:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Most people consider Belarus as a puppet state of Russia since the start of the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. There may be some objection voices, but I think it should be (at least) listed out in the "by limited opinion" section. 182.239.85.145 (talk) 07:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
They dont regard themselves as contries niether does russia enymore or the rest international community 86.114.251.232 (talk) 11:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Outside presumably Russia/Belarus and Transnistria itself, who disputes the status of that entity as Russia's puppet state? (That said, I did check and Transnistria's article currently does not even mention the term puppet state). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:18, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
So far, just some nitpicks about passive voice and verb-subject agreement. Many small changes. If someone believes that one of them is in error, please let me know, but I am not addressing any statements made by the article in this first pass. I will probably have some thoughts about the article substance in a couple of days. Offhand I agree with the people saying that some of the examples should move to list articles.
*Why is a map of the British Empire in the section on Napoleonic France?moved it -el
Elinruby (talk) 17:10, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Seeking second opinions, especially since I see that Piotrus (talk · contribs) has looked at this, but open to anyone else as well. My original question was whether Napoleon was still a revolutionary after he started calling himself emperor and invading other countries. The Duchy of Warsaw is a decent test case on whether Napoleon was creating puppet states. Presumably this was by right of conquest, but apparently he also took the time to go install an administration? Elinruby (talk) 17:48, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm sorry that my subhead seems to equate the pre-Thermidor First Republic's clients with those of Napoleon. I just wanted to group these together since they were so closely related and since this article has far too many sub-sub-heads as it is. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:14, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
We've all struggled here over what is a puppet state, and what is something else, but the new template makes this even more intellecutally daunting:
How do we even begin to sort this out, and then sort out our examples? —— Shakescene (talk) 21:04, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
On this note I think we should probably delete British Empire until we have something more substantive to put there. Some very rough notes follow, not fact-checked yet. We should think about puppet states vs colonies vs say Commonwealth vs British Raj vs princely states. There is a list I saw somewhere of criteria, such as own flag but little to no autonomy. In my mind Newfoundland possibly may have been a puppet state at some point in the past in that perhaps its government was very geared to getting fishing catches to Britain. After 1867 Canada had its own flag, although it still incorporated the Union Jack. Upper and Lower Canada were overtly designated as colonies. On the other end of the spectrum, Congo Free State was not a puppet state of Belgium because it was the personal possession of Leopold II and made no pretense of being a state. India is hazier for me but the British Raj like Canada was an out-and-out colony that automatically entered World War I because Great Britain did so. (Canada specifically passed a law after World War I to say it would declare its own wars in future.) The East India Company like Leopold made no pretense of providing any sort of governance outside of commerce. Princely states: Mostly irrelevant in terms of foreign policy, no, with the possible exception of Hyderabad and Jammu & Kasmir? Maybe better described as semi-autonomous vassal states?? I will try to post the list I am talking about here when I run across it again, but one of the key takeaways for me was that the puppet government bears responsibility for the actions of the dominant state but has no voice in them. Maybe that sums up what the Tea Party colonists were yelling about. Elinruby (talk) 21:08, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
During 1836 U.S. citizens living in the Mexican state of Texas revolted against the Mexican government to establish a U.S.-backed Republic of Texas, a country that existed less than 10 years (from 14 May 1836, to 29 December 1845) before it was annexed to the United States of America. However, in August 1837, Memucan Hunt, Jr., the Texan minister to the United States, submitted the first official annexation proposal to the Van Buren administration. The first American-led attempts to take over Mexican Texas by filibustering date back to 1819 and by separatist settlers to 1826.
In 1810 U.S. citizens living in Spanish territory declared the area from the Mississippi River to the present state of Florida to be an independent nation. Known as the Republic of West Florida, it only lasted for 10 weeks. Not desiring to cross American interests, the republic's government encouraged annexation by the U.S., which soon occurred.[citation needed] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elinruby (talk • contribs) 08:55, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
"* Belarusian Central Council (1944) – The Belarusian Central Council (Biełaruskaja Centralnaja Rada) declared the independence of Belarus on 27 June 1944 before dissolving on 2 July 1944 after the German retreat from Belarus" Elinruby (talk) 01:09, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
which, in either an English version or in a browser translation, also says:
The delegates considered the Congress as a successor to the First All-Belarusian Congress, which was held in December 1917 in the same theater, only under the conditions of Bolshevik occupation. It is not by chance that its members were invited to the presidium - Fabiyan Yaremich, colonel Kastus Yezavitau, teacher Alena Pavarotnaya, doctor Yanka Stankevich. It should be noted that the delegate of the First All-Belarusian Congress was also the president of the Belarusian Central Council, Radoslav Ostrovsky.
which suggests another entry for puppets after World War I or puppets during Bolshevik revolution. I don't know, and really one of our East European experts should intervene, for example @Marcelus:, @Scope creep:, @Piotrus: or @Volunteer Marek: —— Shakescene (talk) 06:35, 16 May Jus)t
I was looking at this last night and while our wikipage does call it a puppet state, and says that a fascist government was installed, I am not entirely certain that it wasn't just a continuation of the monarchy (Prince Louis?) with a German military administration. That said, this is an interesting case; it seems the Germans used its nominal neutrality to move money. What I am not seeing however is a homegrown administration with legislative powers. Possibly I just haven't looked hard enough; it's sort of an edge case. I plan to look at the articles about Monaco some more today. Elinruby (talk) 19:07, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
this is tagged as disputed, anyone know why? Elinruby (talk) 19:09, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
This article is essentially a list, better built out than List of puppet states. Seems like we should rationalize that a bit. Maybe consolidate some of the subsections to make it less list-y? Probably move some of the more minor examples to List of? Elinruby (talk) 19:13, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Relevant Court Cases[edit]International law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence,[1] and the recognition of a country is a political issue.[2] International Courts[edit]
Courts of Countries[edit]
Therefore, Northern Cyprus must be removed from the Wiki-article. Nepal2000 (talk) 05:40, 29 September 2023 (UTC) Replies[edit]That's why Northern Cyprus is listed under #Disputed Examples, because its status is disputed. And that citation from (what I presume is) the Supreme Court of the United States adds the word "purportedly", which is very far from a declaration.
Belarus is also listed under Disputed Examples, and she retains her own seat at the U.N. while exchanging ambassadorw with any number of sovereign states. Few (if any) countries besides Turkey recognise the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus.
I and the article are not declaring that North Cyprus is a puppet state, but (as with other examples in this section} simply stating that some countries consider it to be such. Cf.
#Yemen
HtH Elinruby (talk) 18:14, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Response[edit]The reference to "Unlawful Territorial Situations in International Law: Reconciling Effectiveness, Legality And Legitimacy"[edit]by Enrico Milano (that is used as a reference for Northern Cyprus being a puppet state) must be removed from the Wiki-article "Puppet state" Page 146 of Enrico Milano: "However, following its previous reasoning in Loizidou, the Court concluded that the Republic of Cyprus remains the sole legitimate government in Cyprus by looking at international recognition, and that the TRNC should be considered as a puppet-state under Turkish effective control. 34: Case of Cyprus v. Turkey (Merits), Judgement of 10 May 2001, ECHR Series A (2001-IV), 5" Let's look whether Enrico Milano properly takes the reference he gave in his book or not: "2. Alleged violations of the rights of the displaced persons to respect for their home and property 28. The Commission established the facts under this heading against the background of the applicant Government's principal submission that over 211,000 displaced Greek Cypriots and their children continued to be prevented as a matter of policy from returning to their homes in northern Cyprus and from having access to their property there for any purpose. The applicant Government submitted that the presence of the Turkish army together with “TRNC”-imposed border restrictions ensured that the return of displaced persons was rendered physically impossible and, as a corollary, that their cross-border family visits were gravely impeded. What started as a gradual and continuing process of illegality over the years had now resulted in the transfer of the property left behind by the displaced persons to the “TRNC” authorities without payment of compensation and its re-assignment, together with “title deeds”, to State bodies, Turkish Cypriots and settlers from Turkey. 29. The respondent Government maintained before the Commission that the question of the Varosha district of Famagusta along with the issues of freedom of movement, freedom of settlement and the right of property could only be resolved within the framework of the inter-communal talks (see paragraph 16 above) and on the basis of the principles agreed on by both sides for the conduct of the talks. Until an overall solution to the Cyprus question, acceptable to both sides, was found, and having regard to security considerations, there could be no question of a right of the displaced persons to return. The respondent Government further submitted that the regulation of property abandoned by displaced persons, as with restrictions on cross-border movement, fell within the exclusive jurisdiction of the “TRNC” authorities." There is NO word "puppet" in the body-text of the "Cyprus v. Turkey" case decision of 10.05.2001 BY THE COURT ECtHR ITSELF! When we CTRL+F for the word "puppet", we see the word "puppet" appears only in one place; namely, in the "PARTLY DISSENTING OPINION OF JUDGE FUAD" not in the body-text of the decision of the "Cyprus v. Turkey" case (I gave above the body-text's 28th and 29th paragraph): "PARTLY DISSENTING OPINION OF JUDGE FUAD Judge Mr. K. Fuad does not say "Northern Cyprus is a puppet state"! He says just the opposite! So, Enrico Milano's book distorts ECtHR's 10.05.2001-decision! The European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) did not conclude "TRNC is a puppet state of Turkey" in its 10.05.2021-decision! Forget that, ECtHR's 10.05.2001-decision does not include any word "puppet"! Hence, the reference "Milano, Enrico (2006). Unlawful Territorial Situations in International Law: Reconciling Effectiveness, Legality And Legitimacy. p. 146" (that is used as a reference for Northern Cyprus being a puppet state) must be removed from the Wiki-article "Puppet state". Nepal2000 (talk) 07:53, 5 October 2023 (UTC) The reference to "Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law 2015.[edit]Unlawful Territorial Situations in International Law: Reconciling Effectiveness, Legality And Legitimacy." by Terry D. Gill (2016) p. 146. ISBN 9004149392. p. 58. (that is used as a reference for Northern Cyprus being a puppet state) must be removed from the Wiki-article "Puppet state" The Wiki-article "Puppet state" includes: "According to the European Court of Human Rights, the Republic of Cyprus remains the sole legitimate government in Cyprus, and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus should be considered as a puppet state under Turkish effective control". and gives 2 references for this: Enrico Milano's 2006-book and Terry.D.Gill's 2016-book. Above, Enrico Milano's 2006-book was shown to distort ECtHR's 10.05.2001-decision. Now, it is Terry.D.Gill's 2016-book's turn: Terry.D., Gill (2016). Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law 2015. p. 58. ISBN 9789462651418. "All through a long line of case law on the issue of human rights responsibility in puppet states, the ECtHR consistently upheld the principle according to which primary responsibility and liability for human rights violations in a puppet state rests with the sponsor state. The first case in which the ECtHR dealt with the issue of a puppet state is the Loizidou v. Turkey Case. In its judgement on the preliminary objections, the Court refuted Turkey’s claim that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) is not a puppet state but a democratic state established on the basis of its right of self-determination, and thus fully responsible for the breaches of law occurring on its territory.50 The Court came to the conclusion that: [b]earing in mind the object and purpose of the Convention, the responsibility of a Contracting Party may also arise when as a consequence of military action - whether lawful or unlawful - it exercises effective control of an area outside its national territory. The obligation to secure, in such an area, the rights and freedoms set out in the Convention derives from the fact of such control whether it be exercised directly, through its armed forces, or through a subordinate local administration. In this connection, the respondent government have acknowledged that the applicant’s loss of control of her property stems from the occupation of the northern part of Cyprus by Turkish troops and the establishment there of the “TRNC”. Furthermore, it has not been disputed that the applicant was prevented by Turkish troops from gaining access to her property.51 Therefore, apart from clearly establishing responsibility of the sponsor state for the human rights violations of the puppet state, the Court also stresses that the exercise of effective control does not need to be done through military means, as it is needed for the application of humanitarian law, but can also be achieved through the subordination of the puppet state’s administration. 50 ECtHR, Case of Loizidou v Turkey, Preliminary Objections, 23 March 1995, Appl. No. 15318/89, para 54. ECtHR's 23.03.1995 Preliminary Objections document: The Court notes that the issue whether the Convention and the Rules of Court permit a partial referral under Article 48 (art. 48), as in the present case, has not been called into question by those appearing before the Court. Indeed, Turkey ("the respondent Government") has accepted that the scope of the case be confined in this way. In these circumstances the Court does not find it necessary to give a general ruling on the question whether it is permissible to limit a referral to the Court to some of the issues on which the Commission has stated its opinion. V. OBJECTIONS RATIONE LOCI Bearing in mind the object and purpose of the Convention, the responsibility of a Contracting Party may also arise when as a consequence of military action - whether lawful or unlawful - it exercises effective control of an area outside its national territory. The obligation to secure, in such an area, the rights and freedoms set out in the Convention derives from the fact of such control whether it be exercised directly, through its armed forces, or through a subordinate local administration." The word "puppet" appears only in 2 places in ECtHR's 23.03.1995 "Preliminary Objections" document: "V. OBJECTIONS RATIONE LOCI 56. The respondent Government first pointed out that the question of access to property was obviously outside the realm of Turkey’s "jurisdiction". This could be seen from the fact that it formed one of the core items in the inter-communal talks between the Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot communities. Furthermore the mere presence of Turkish armed forces in northern Cyprus was not synonymous with "jurisdiction" any more than it is with the armed forces of other countries stationed abroad. In fact Turkish armed forces had never exercised "jurisdiction" over life and property in northern Cyprus. Undoubtedly it was for this reason that the findings of the Commission in the inter-State cases of Cyprus v. Turkey (applications nos. 6780/74, 6950/75 and 8007/77, supra cit.) had not been endorsed by the Committee of Ministers whose stand was in line with the realities of the situation prevailing in Cyprus following the intervention of Turkey as one of the three guarantor powers of the Republic of Cyprus. Nor did Turkey exercise overall control of the border areas as found by the Commission in its admissibility decision in the present case. She shares control with the authorities of the "TRNC" and when her armed forces act alone they do so on behalf of the "TRNC" which does not dispose of sufficient forces of its own. The fact that the Turkish armed forces operate within the command structure of the Turkish army does not alter this position. According to the respondent Government, FAR FROM BEING A "PUPPET" STATE AS ALLEGED BY THE APPLICANT, the "TRNC" is a democratic constitutional State with impeccable democratic features and credentials. Basic rights are effectively guaranteed and there are free elections. It followed that the exercise of public authority in the "TRNC" was not imputable to Turkey. The fact that this State has not been recognised by the international community was not of any relevance in this context. 57. The applicant, whose submissions were endorsed by the Government of Cyprus, contended that the question of responsibility in this case for violations of the Convention must be examined with reference to the relevant principles of international law. In this respect the Commission’s approach which focused on the direct involvement of Turkish officials in violations of the Convention was not, under international law, the correct one. A State is, in principle, internationally accountable for violations of rights occurring in territories over which it has physical control. ACCORDING TO THE APPLICANT, international law recognises that a State which is thus accountable with respect to a certain territory remains so even if the territory is administered by a local administration. This is so whether the local administration is illegal, in that it is the consequence of an illegal use of force, or whether it is lawful, as in the case of a protected State or other political dependency. A State cannot avoid legal responsibility for its illegal acts of invasion and military occupation, and for subsequent developments, by setting up or permitting the creation of forms of local administration, however designated. Thus the controlling powers in the "puppet" States that were set up in Manchukuo, Croatia and Slovakia during the period 1939-45 were not regarded as absolved from responsibilities for breaches of international law in these administrations (Whiteman, Digest of International Law, vol. 8, pp. 835-37 (1967)). In the same vein, the international accountability of the protecting or ultimate sovereign remains in place even when a legitimate political dependency is created. This responsibility of the State in respect of protectorates and autonomous regions is affirmed by the writings of authoritative legal publicists (Rousseau, Droit international public, vol. V, 1983, p. 31, para. 28; Reuter, Droit international public, 6th ed., 1983, p. 262; Répertoire suisse de droit international public, vol. III, 1975, pp. 1722-23; Verzijl, International Law in Historical Perspective, vol. IV, 1973, pp. 710-11). The applicant further submitted that in the present case to apply a criterion of responsibility which required the direct intervention of Turkish military personnel in respect of each prima facie violation of the Convention in northern Cyprus would be wholly at variance with the normal mode of applying the principles of State responsibility set out above. To require applicants to fulfil such a standard at the merits stage would be wholly unrealistic and would also involve a de facto amnesty and a denial of justice. Finally, if Turkey was not to be held responsible for conditions in northern Cyprus, no other legal person can be held responsible. However the principle of the effective protection of Convention rights recognised in the case-law of the Court requires that there be no lacuna in the system of responsibility. The principles of the Convention system and the international law of State responsibility thus converge to produce a regime under which Turkey is responsible for controlling events in northern Cyprus." The Applicant (Ms. Loizidou) does claim "TRNC is a puppet state of Turkey". European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) does not state "the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus should be considered as a puppet state under Turkish effective control" in its 23.03.1995 document. However, the Wiki-article "Puppet state" includes: "According to the European Court of Human Rights, ... the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus should be considered as a puppet state under Turkish effective control". This is a clear distortion. Hence, "Terry.D., Gill (2016)" must be removed from the references of "According to the European Court of Human Rights, ... the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus should be considered as a puppet state under Turkish effective control".Nepal2000 (talk) 08:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC) Academic studies: Northern Cyprus is not a puppet state[edit]
"If the TRNC was indeed a puppet state of Turkey, then these extensive individual civil and political rights would have been far more restricted in Northern Cyprus -- especially the activities of the leftist political parties and trade unions."
In terms of its actual human rights record, the US State Department finds that "there is a generally strong regard for democratic principles" in the Turkish Cypriot community. There were no reports of political prisoners and no public allegations of police brutality in the TRNC. Representatives from international human rights groups have access to the TRNC, international broadcasts are available without interference, academic freedom is respected, opinions circulate freely, and independent trade unions regularly take stands on public policy issues.
"the factors identified by James Crawford and Alan James in distinguishing puppet states from other entities include such things as: 1) whether the entity was established illegally, by military occupation or the threat or use of external armed force; 2) evidence that the entity does not have the support of the vast majority of the population it claims to govern; 3) evidence that the entity is subject to foreign control or direction in important matters of policy; and 4) the staffing of important government positions by foreign nationals"35
"Unlike Manchukuo and the Nazi regimes in Slovakia and Croatia during World War II, the TRNC actually does have the support of the vast majority of the population it claims to govern. It is not an alien entity imposed from abroad on an unwilling civilian population. A second component of this argument points to the fact that the TRNC does not always march in step with Turkey. The TRNC’s constitution, for example, has many more liberal democratic principles in it than the Turkish constitution has. The TRNC has also shown a far more tolerant attitude toward the activities of left-wing trade unions and political parties than the mainland Turks have. Birol Ali Yesilada (1989) argues that 'If the TRNC was indeed a puppet state of Turkey, then these extensive individual civil and political rights would have been far more restricted in Northern Cyprus -- especially the activities of the leftist political parties and trade unions.' "
(1: Disclaimer: Though discussing de facto-states, this thesis holds no opinions on the legitimacy of their existence nor on their present, future or past status. Names of entities may vary elsewhere. For example, Transnistria is also known as Trans-Dniester, and Northern Cyprus as TRNC. Here, the most common names from English and Norwegian literature are used.) Comment[edit]@Shakescene and Elinruby:, the originator of this section is indef-blocked. I vote for collapsing these WP:WALLSOFTEXT dominated by Nepal2000, for WP:NOTHERE reasons (same reason they got blocked for), but I won't if there's an objection. Mathglot (talk) 22:19, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Refs[edit]
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It's all too easy in an article that's meant to define and describe "puppet states" tp turn representative examples into complete lists (perhaps a whole family of these lists should form their own article or articles).
On the one hand, we have quite deliberately reduced the French-revolutionary and Napoleonic puppet states (1789-1814) to just two examples, when it would possible to list at least 20 (Batavian Republic, Cisalpine Republic, Helvetic Republic, Grand Duchy of Warsaw, etc.)
But at the opposite extreme there are very long lists of Japanese puppet states in Chine (1931-45) — which essentially duplicates the lists in Collaboration with Imperial Japan and List of World War II puppet states — and what appears to be all the short-lived alternative régimes in the Dutch East Indies that the Netherlands set up as alternatives to Sukarno's Republic of Indonesia between Japan's defeat in 1945 and a final peace treaty with Sukarno in 1949.
There might also be a way to abridge the long section on the Kingdom of Iraq which is also treated at List of World War II puppet states.
Any thoughts? @Elinruby and Mathglot: —— Shakescene (talk) 06:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC)