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Has anyone taken the time to get this woman help. She clearly had a rough childhood, and now she’s living a ridiculous lie, hurting herself and her children. She’s feeding off the negative attention, and twisting her lies into a “cause”, while her children deal with the aftermath in silence. In the documentary, she lied countless times, and then when confronted with the lies, she couldn’t acknowledge them. Take this one step further; imagine she identifies as a horse. Are we to cheer her on, even though everyone knows she’s a fraud? She needs help. 2607:FEA8:28C1:F200:9161:5300:DA18:51A (talk) 13:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
It has been brought to my attention that User:Bbx118 has repeatedly changed the opening introduction from "an American former college instructor and activist known for presenting herself as a black woman despite having been born to white parents" to "despite being white." The edit suggests that her being white is a fact in contrary to what she identifies as, and dismisses transracial people as a whole to fit the user's narrative and personal perspective. Whether or not she is white is up for debate and subjective, whereas her being born to white parents is a widely accepted neutral fact. WP:NPOV. Similarly, saying that "trans men present themselves as men despite being women" would be considered extremely biased. Miunouta (talk) 21:37, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
The edit suggests that her being white is a fact
. Because it is a fact. It's a widely accepted neutral fact
, as can be seen in the overwhelming majority of (if not, all) RS. Besides common sense and the fact her parents state she's white (I think they have a pretty good idea), she admits she's white. Born to white parents
is an attempt to push a user's narrative and personal perspective
and is quite very clearly taking a stance on Transracialism
; there's no other reason for such unconventional wording. After all, white people are usually born to white parents. Case and point: this very article.
We're supposed to describe her as RS do, and the overwhelming majority say she's a white woman pretending to be black. Not a self-identifying black woman born to white parents. – 2.O.Boxing 13:15, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I think Dolezal's self-identity as black is genuine. She still identifies as such to this day despite the backlash she received. There is absolutely nothing to be otherwise gained by this if she didn't really feel like that. Furthermore, the previous language did not explicitly state that Dolezal IS black - only that she presents herself and identifies as black despite having been born to white parents. I believe that takes somewhat of a neutral position on the issue of transracialism and could be applied similarly for transgender identities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PC848 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
Prefer nonjudgmental language. A neutral point of view neither sympathizes with nor disparages its subject (or what reliable sources say about the subject), although this must sometimes be balanced against clarity.
Born to white parentssympathises with the subject by lending credibility to what she says (and what RS dismiss), and it doesn't do all that much for clarity. Also, that specific wording is Dolezal's own description, as quoted in RS, so I'd say that falls afoul of NPOV.
Despite being whitedoesn't sympathise with nor disparage the subject. If you think it does disparage then I'd argue it's
balanced against clarityby removing any possible doubt of her actual race, which, again, is something that Dolezal herself and all RS say is white. – 2.O.Boxing 13:18, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
I acknowledge that I was biologically born white. Seeing as everybody and their nan knows you can't change ethnicity...lol. No amount of prancing around with silly little flags while assaulting anybody who still enjoys living in reality will change biological facts. But, I wasn't born after the 2000s, so what do I know? Hopefully, I'll be able to self identify as 6'6" one day. How cool that fantasy would be. – 2.O.Boxing 07:04, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Is that statement coming from Dolezal herself?, read the article.
In my opinion, this is a genuine case of transracialism, your diagnosis is irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of sources agree; she's a white woman (
what her true race actually is) pretending to be black. A description used by a lot of high quality RS.WP:Consensus is not a show of hands, fortunately, so no, you don't have consensus for your blatant NPOV-violating edit. – 2.O.Boxing 08:16, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
The very language that was initially frowned upon...with unconvincing reasoning. This article doesn't need to define what a white person is, because everybody already knows. Regardless of your viewpoint,
despite being whiteis unambiguous,
born to white parentsis not. – 2.O.Boxing 21:17, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
original wordingwas agreed to by two editors last year and remained stable for a week or so, if that. The wording had been altered multiple times before I arrived. The longest-stable wording regarding her false claims has been variations of,
she resigned following allegations that she had lied about being African American, many other aspects of her biography and alleged hate crimes against her, along with,
her white parents said publicly that Dolezal is a white woman passing as black. Sometime in 2020 it became variations of
known for being a white woman who identified and passed as a black woman, with the mention of her parents' clarification removed.We follow the sources. The overwhelming majority of RS, more often than not, plainly state something along the lines of 'white woman pretending to be black' (check the sources in the article). And on that note, reading the rationale by the OP again I think it should be noted that the comparison with women identifying as men isn't valid; the overwhelming majority of RS do not call them something along the lines of 'women pretending to be men', so neither do we. And philosophical debates on the definition of race are irrelevant; she is demonstrably considered white based on the indisputable-worldwide understanding of what a white person is. – 2.O.Boxing 18:32, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
known for presenting herself as a black woman despite being white. In addition to claiming black ancestry, she also claimed Native American descent
covers the controversy in full. Born to white parents
is not only unconvential and unnecessary, it sympathises with the subject, contrary to RS. The arguments of 'respecting identity' prove as much. That's NPOV territory. – 2.O.Boxing 22:27, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
It has been over 10 years since I was really active in Wikipedia, so I'm asking a question about something that puzzles me. Why is it that Veronica Ivy is where I will find the article about the person most famously known as Rachel McKinnon, but the article on Nkechi Amare Diallo is located at Rachel Dolezal? Both Rachels have changed their names, but it looks like Wikipedia respects one change but not the other. I have no idea if this is policy or an internal inconsistency, or what. Could someone explain this to me? Unschool 01:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
That sounds like wikilawyering. She is transracial which is the same as transgender just a different aspect of identity. The article should reflect her current name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.190.94 (talk) 13:08, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
"Nkechi Amare Diallo" and "Nkechi Diallo" redirect to "Rachel Dolezal", which seems appropriate until her current legal name becomes her more commonly accepted name. —Pippinitis (talk) 04:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
She's 100% WHITE, but she's been dying her skin to look black. She's doing a full body blackface. 2603:8090:1504:278A:74D0:1588:E7BD:C6B6 (talk) 12:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Does anyone know if Dolezal claimed to be descended from any particular Native American tribe? Thanks. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 03:56, 16 January 2024 (UTC)