This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

History Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Central Asia Mid‑importance Turkic History is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. East Asia (defunct) This article is within the scope of WikiProject East Asia, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.East AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject East AsiaTemplate:WikiProject East AsiaEast Asia articles Turkey Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Iran Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Russia: Demographics & ethnography Low‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles Low This redirect has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This redirect is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force. Afghanistan Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the redirect attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Pakistan Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Iraq Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Iraq, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Iraq on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IraqWikipedia:WikiProject IraqTemplate:WikiProject IraqIraq articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. China Mid‑importance This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles Mid This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article reads like a Pan-Turkist propaganda pamphlet than a wikipedia's article:

• Inappropriate tone, e.g.:

  • this race [sic] had a warrior and nomadic culture

  • The history of all people that emerged in Eurasia and North Africa has been affected by the movements of the Turks from afar and close. Turks also played an important role in bringing Eastern cultures to the West and Western cultures to the East. Their own religion became the pioneer and defender of the foreign religions they adopted after Tengrism, and they helped their spread and development (Mani religion, Judaism, Buddhism, Orthodox, Nestorian Christianity and Islam).

• Unsourced maps;
• At least one unreliable source, e.g.:
  • Türklerin ve Tatarların Kökeni, s. 143-178, Selenge Yayınları, Ağustos 2007 by pseudo-scholar Mirfatyh Zakiev;
• Cherry-picking sources and probably misinterpreting sources to push WP:Fringe, e.g.:

  • Most scholars believe that the Turks first appeared on the stage of history as a political community during the reign of the Huns (Hiung-nu or Shiongnu).^[1][2][3][4]

• Unsourced claims pushing WP:Fringe, consistent with LTA Tirgil34's MO (e.g. "Claiming that various Indo-European cultures of Central Asia, like the Yamna culture, the Afanasevo culture, the Andronovo culture and the Karasuk culture, were of Turkic origin."), e.g.:

  • It is argued that the ancestors of the Turks started with the Afanasievo culture between 2500 BC and 1700 BC and continued with the Andronovo culture between 1700 BC and 1200 BC.

    • which contradicts reliably-sourced statements found in Andronovo culture

      • It is almost universally agreed among scholars that the Andronovo culture was Indo-Iranian.^[5][6]

    • & Afanasievo culture

      • The authors conclude that the Afanasievo people were Indo-Europeans, perhaps ancestors of the Tocharians.^[7]

Other editors, e.g. @Krakkos:, @Qiushufang:, @HistoryofIran:, @Whhu22:, etc., what to do with this article? I'm thinking of copy-pasting well-sourced materials from Turkic peoples#History.

Erminwin (talk) 17:26, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is indeed dubious. Erminwin's proposal sounds like a good idea. Krakkos (talk) 17:42, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah either that or completely delete this article. It adds zero to Wikipedia, and may encourage others to add this to other articles. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:09, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So when we read that your complain about article, you just don't like it. WP:JDLI Wickelodeon (talk) 20:36, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At least one unreliable source?

• R. Grousset, L'Empire des steppes, Paris, 1960
• DE. Guignes, Histoire generale *des Huns des Turcs et des Mongols, Paris, 1756.
• Jean-Paul Roux, Historie des Turcs, 1984.
• Jean-Paul Roux, Timur, 1994.
• Fayard Paris, Historie des Turcs, 1984.
• D.Sinor, Aspects of Altaic Civilization, 1963.
• M. Barthold, Turkestan down to the Mongol Invansıon, Londra, 1968.
• E. Berl, Historie de l'Europe d'Attila a Tamerlan, Paris, 1946.
• M.A. Czaplıcka, The Turks of Central Asia in History and at the Present Day, Oxford, 1918.
• W. Eberhard, Kultur und Siedlung der Randvölker China, 1942.
• L. Hambis, La Haute-Asie, Paris, 1953.
• Hammer-Purgstall, Von, Historie de l'Empire ottoman depuis son origine jusqu!a nos jours, Paris, 1835.
• H.H. Howorth, History of the Mongols, Londra, 1876.

But no, they funded by Turko-Persian goverment unlike our glorious Iranian storytelle.. historians. Also Turkicness of Xiognhu's are fringe theory as Iranianness of Sakas. Its one of the strong theories for predicted race of that state.

Wickelodeon (talk) 20:42, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure he meant cited sources. Also, please keep your personal opinion to yourself and don't randomly make silly accusations, see WP:SOAPBOX, WP:OR, WP:GOODFAITH, and WP:FORUM. NOTE: This user just recently attempted to alter sourced information. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:02, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran:: By "at least one unreliable source" I meant:

pseudo-scholar Mirfatyh Zakiev's book Türklerin ve Tatarların Kökeni, s. 143-178, Selenge Yayınları, Ağustos 2007 (which is cited & for which there exists an Engish translation by Norm Kisamov in Kisamov's pseudoscientific blog turkicworld.org (blacklisted); if anybody'd be curious enough to read it).

Hasan Celal Güzel, Kemal Çiçek, Salim Koca Türkler Ansiklopedisi, Adana, 2002 (which is mentioned in Turkish book section but not cited inline), whose volume 1 contains this Şevket Koçsoy's article "Türk Tarihi Kronolojisi / Sevket Koçsoy [s.73-188]" (pp. 34-248) (readable here), which seemingly claims that various peoples and cultures were either proto-Turks or Turks: Anau, Afanasievo, Andronovo, Scythians/Sakas, etc. and even... Zhou dynasty (I admit that I cannot read Turkish & used Google translate to understand it; still I think it very unlikely that Şevket Koçsoy did not make those Pan-Turkist claims yet Google translate indicates that he did). Erminwin (talk) 15:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see, this is quite problematic. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this discussion is stuck in this redirect, I have therefore moved it [1]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:45, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]